Holley carb, Help!!!!

[klonestar]

Just got my 66' Coronet on the road and the carb has a very bad dead spot in it.As soon as I hit the pedal it hesitates (sometmes dies) then picks up great! This is a holley 4011 double pumper and it had 300 miles on it when I bought it.It came off a truck and the orig. owner just bolted it in and that was it. He took it out for gas mileage reasons.
Any ideas what to change or look for as being the problem ?
Its on a new built 360 mill with new linkage.Thanks!!!!

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[shark724]

Are you certain that is the correct carb. given your intake ,cam,etc..????

[Glen440]

There is a couple possible causes. The first one to check is the accelerater pump. It is very important for when you first hit the gas. Is your timing right? Also it could be jetted too lean.

[klonestar]

As far as knowing if its the right carb for the set up, no im not positive! I got it from a friend for 75.00. Thats how I ended up with it! As best as I can figure out, I need about 628 cfm. This is a 650 carb so I guessed it should be ok. How ever the info I used to come up with the 628 cfm was partly a guess also.
On the timing, (im a plumber, not a mechanic) so my mechanic set the timing at what HE felt it should be and not necessarily what the book said! On the accelerator pump, if you can tell me how to check that I will cause my mechanic is on vacation for the next week. Otherwise I will wait till he gets back. Jet size could be a factor as whats in it is what came from the factory.

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[Thunderhead]

Klonestar, the accel pump has an arm with multiple holes in it. Try moving the rod to one hole or the other and test drive it. If it gets worse, move it to the opposite side of where you started. If it gets better then you are heading the right dirrection. Thats just a start. Good luck!
Thunderhead

[cruzerjd]

One more thing to check is Power Valve. If you are pulling too much vacuum for the Power Valve you have in the car it will hesitate. In my 318 I was pulling 20" vacuum but had a power valve suited to about 15" vacuum. I have heard that the rule of thumb is divide " of vacuum in half and add 1.5 to it for the correct power valve #. I have also heard that it is better to be slightly on the small side on this equation. My 318's Holley now has a 8.5 PV (it had a 6.5) and it no longer hesitates. Just my 2 cents worth. cruzerjd

[pishta]

That 4011 has no holes on the pump lever, hes thinking of a Carter/Edelbrock. Anyway, check the pumps by looking into the bores on a NON RUNNING motor and pressing down on the black levers coming off the cam on the butterfly shafts. there should be an immediate shot of fuel streaming out of the squirters. If not immediate, adjust the nut on the black lever to .005 clearance or 0. That'll check the pumps. Of bad, replace the diaphragms or umbrella seals inside the pumps

[klonestar]

Thanks Pishta. Your right, I checked and no holes! Will check the pumps tomorrow. I did find fuel leaking out of both sides of the carb body where the linkage sticks out. Very little, but some. Now im debating on getting a Edelbrock. Think I should or just get this one working right? I have had a lot of locals tell me I should go with a Edelbrock ? Id be looking at 230.00 as compared to getting this one maybe rebuilt. Just thinking out loud!

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[Thunderhead]

Pishta, your right. Not alot of experience with them. I have always steered away from Holley carbs. My mistake Is it on a Holley that you have to bend the accelerator pump rod? I can't remember. It's been so long. Sorry for the miss info! So how is it coming there klonestar?
Thunderhead

[klonestar]

Thunderhead, your not the only one I've heard that stears clear of Holley's. Thats why im wondering if I should go ahead and get a Edelbrock! Anyone tried the newer Carters? Everyone i've met in my area driving a Mopar has a Edelbrock.hmmmm.....

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[klonestar]

If I change carbs, I read here somewhere that the vacuum secondary is better than the mechanical secondary, is this true? The Holley I have has a mechanical secondary which my parts store man said is better ???
If I can get the Holley working, id like to use that for now. But will the Edelbrock or Carter give me the same performance but maybe a little better gas mileage?? If so, I may go ahead and change it now.So far I figure im getting about 8-9 mpg. as long as I stay off the pedal most of the time. If I get away from the double pumper will that improve mpg ? I dont want to sacrifice performance though. Dang, more $$$$$ down the drain!!!!!!

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[klonestar]

If I change carbs, I read here somewhere that the vacuum secondary is better than the mechanical secondary, is this true? The Holley I have has a mechanical secondary which my parts store man said is better ???
If I can get the Holley working, id like to use that for now. But will the Edelbrock or Carter give me the same performance but maybe a little better gas mileage?? If so, I may go ahead and change it now.So far I figure im getting about 8-9 mpg. as long as I stay off the pedal most of the time. If I get away from the double pumper will that improve mpg ? I dont want to sacrifice performance though. Dang, more $$$$$ down the drain!!!!!!

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[Thunderhead]

Klonestar, Ihave run the Edelbrocks with great success. 600's and a 750. The mechanical seconds on the Holley are great for a race car that is after the best full throttle acceration. On the street they kill your gas mileage. The Edels would do much better but you might lose "some" power. The mileage increase is worth it, so is the cruising throttle response! You should be able to pickup a #1405 ( 600cfm ) from Summit Racing for around $200. Last time I checked anyway. Bonus: FREE SHIPPING
Good luck my Mopar bother.
Thunderhead

[klonestar]

Thunder, The Edel is sounding better all the time! Summit has the #1406 (600 cfm, vacuum secondary,electric choke) for 228.00. I already scoped it out in my new Summit catalog. I need the choke as I drive year round Mopar in the cold country. I always favored manual chokes myself, is the electric choke on Edel reliable? Do I need to check my intake to see if it has a place for the electric choke? My old 318 had the choke in the manifold w/spring.Is that the same as elec.?

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[Thunderhead]

Klonestar, I have the #1406 on wife's 69 Dart and It has worked perfect. Been running it now for about a year. I have always favored manual chokes also, less to go wrong and I have control! You dont have to worry about the intake. The Edel setup is self contained for the most part. You just have to run one wire a set it. That all! The old choke in the manifold is totally useless with the Edel. Pull it and forget it! I'll check back tomorrow, or is it later today, I don't know! Work comes awfully early. See ya later.
Thunderhead

[mtrv8n]

When u buy the edelbrock, make sure you get the one that is "performance" tuned, not the economy tune. On all of those models, you will have to install the electric chooke yourself ($43) from summit). I just put the 1412 800cfm on my crate 360/380, and it works great. All the edelbrocks are vacuum style secondaries, so you really can't go too big. I have a little bit of hesitation off throttle, and may have to repostion the pump tang, but otherwise..it runs much smoother through the rpm range than my holley dp did.

[klonestar]

The 1406 already comes with the electric choke. The 43.95 elec.choke kit is for changing a manual choke to elec.
How can I make sure the 600 cfm is enough? If I go to the 750 then I will need to get the elec.choke kit.
I have a 360 (cam)w/279 duration intake w/290 dur.exhaust at 60,000 lift "or" 210 int. w/220 exhua.at 50,000 lift. Valve lift is 429 intake w/442 exhaust. Lobe ctr. line is 114 degrees. Using flat top pistons w/ 9.5 to 1 comp.ratio and using 86' thru 90' stock heads w/ heart shaped swirl chambers.And if it makes any difference this is in a 66' Coronet 4 door.(heavy!) w/727 trans, 8 3/4 rear w/posi.I will be adding a hood scoop for better air intake.
The Summit cat. says this is the "Performer carb" and "note" says tuning IS required. It would only be about 20.00 more for the 750 w/choke kit if I need that one as opposed to the 600 cfm. Many thanks!
I will be using a 5-6" tall air cleaner (K&N) w/the K&N filter top as well.14" dia.

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[klonestar]

I forgot to mention, I have the Edel.Performer Intake #2176.

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[Thunderhead]

Hi Klonestar! I agree with mtrv8n. You can't hardly go wrong with either size. Vacuum secondaries are nice! If you plan to do more hi-po mods in the future I would go ahead and get the 750. Otherwise it really wont matter a whole lot if you take the time to tune the carb. Edels and Carters are the easiest carbs to tune out there. You can do everything with the carb still mounted!
Thunderhead

[klonestar]

Well that settles it. I'll call Summit and have them add a carb to my order. So your saying I can tune the 750 Edel. (down?) to fit my needs for now ? Is there a chance the 600 would be too small for now? Somewhere I found a site that I could fill in the blanks and it would calculate how many cfm's I need. Im gonna see if I can find it again now that I have more precise numbers to punch in. Thanks everyone!!!!

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[Thunderhead]

Klonestar, about the carb size. There was an article in Car Craft ( August '98 ) that compares a 650 vs 750 vs 850. They were Holley carbs but that doesn't matter for our purposes. To boil it down, it basically didn't matter which size. This was a 350 Chevy ( sorry! )and the dyno saw less than 2.5 hp difference between them and 1.6 ft-lbs of torque! And this was after the carbs were tuned for the engine! I'll admit the cam was .479in-.495ex with 234-242 duration @ 050 but I think the basic principle stands. If your into tech read this article. Its VERY technical but has alot of good info.
Thunderhead

[panic]

Problem may not be adjustment. 4011 (0-84016 is 650 dbl-pump) is "modular" spread-bore (QJ/TQ) replacement. This model is notorious for body casting warpage, gasket leaks, vacuum leaks, etc. May not be fixable. What is the <u>exact</u> body number?

[This message has been edited by panic (edited September 04, 2000).]

[klonestar]

Panic, the only # I found on the carb body is # 12R-10658B.
As far as which Edel.to get, I found the Martel Bros. "car math" site and punched in my #'s and it said the 600 cfm should be plenty.Now I gotta call Summit and get one on the way.

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[JOHN SHERRED]

sounds like you need to work on the accellerator pump shot

get the latest holley carb book and read it and you should be able to tune any holley

if you want a carter try the thermoquad
they can be verey tricky to tune but will out perfome all other carter carbs

i would reccomend a holley 600 to 750 cfm vaccum secondary carb
they are the simplest carb on the plannet plus they will give as good or better perfomance than the carter afb or edelbrock wich is the same as the carter afb

[pishta]

Id go with the Carter/Edel 750. Revs real free on a built SB and it is recommended on all SB Edel. RPM apps. As for the H 650 mech CFM, a H 750 vacuum will match it or surpass it across the board, with very little loss in low end. Plus with the Carter/Edel, its pretty hard to overcarb because of the velocity valve. Real easy to tune, and no leaks from gaskets. Nice shiny finish too, and Mopar linkages usually bolt right up.

[Thunderhead]

John,I have to disagree with you about the Holley. The Carter/Edel type carbs are way easier to work on. You don't have the fuel leaks either. The Edel has only 1 body gasket. How about the average Holley? A Holley with dual metering plates you are looking at 5 gaskets minimum and all can create problems if they leak. Another plus, even a beginner can rebuild a Edel type carb! I guess it comes down to what you are familiar with and what you like.
Thunderhead

[ZIPPY]

Not to be overly attitudinal, or not politically correct, but....

The 4010/4011 series is the biggest piece of junk Holley ever made. They have made great carbs, but this is *not* one of them! It's a ancient Motorcraft design, not very tunable, and IMO should be avoided like the plague.

It had the highest return rate of any aftermarket carb ever made---so high, in fact, that Holley doesn't offer them any longer. They lost money on too many of them. Guys at the local speed shop used to call them "boomerang carbs", they come right back the day after you sell one!

Almost *any* proven carb made in the last 15-20 years would be better. In general I like Holleys, but heck, I'd rather run a Quadrajet than the 4010/4011. i.e.--I dislike them so much, I'd rather have to learn a whole different carb than mess with it. That's how bad they are.

[cruzerjd]

I agree with Zippy, these things are CRAP. I fought one for quite a while and I think Zippy knows which one I am talking about. It was a 650 CFM 4011 and I finally had to sell it. The weird thing is that the fellow who bought it is using it on his 44o powered motorhome without any problems, wierd. cruzerjd

[ZIPPY]

That's right JD.

Besides the one you're mentioning, I have encountered two other ones since, that have all kinds of crazy problems---none of which a rebuild took care of.

The things are a mess, almost *anything* would be better--doesn't matter who made it!

[klonestar]

OK! I have an Edel. on the way! Went out today and the car wont even start! Give it NO gas and it floods itself, besides the major bog off idle! Sure had a nice top end though!!!!

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