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View Poll Results: Which heads are the best for street/strip or race | |||
Brodix | 5 | 10.00% | |
edelbrock | 14 | 28.00% | |
Mopar performance | 6 | 12.00% | |
indy | 23 | 46.00% | |
other | 2 | 4.00% | |
Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll |
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#1
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edelbrock
brodix indy Mopar Performance |
#2
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other?
if you post "other" then tell who,why, price, ect. thanks
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#3
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They all need work right out of the box, do you have a small block or big block, and you have to decide if you want heads that take standard headers or do you want something that will take more effort.
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Album...newphotos=true |
#4
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sorry
i knew i forgot something. Bigblock (383) stroked to 431.
i didnt know any of them need intakes or special headers. please post if you know which ones take fabrication/special parts. |
#5
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Are we doing Race or street strip. Depending on the choice of Track only or Street strip is were the answer lies. What do you want to do.
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#6
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S/S
i got thinking about it probably street/strip
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#7
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I'm building a street/strip 440 w/ .030" overbore with stock rods and TRW pistons. Ive had the rods magnaflux, shot-peened and polished and one thing still stays the same; they re still stock. Ken Hensley told me the Edlebrock 440 head is a really good street/strip head. The Indy head is probably a little too much for your cubic inches. I know for a fact your engine not big enough for the Brodix. It takes big c.i. to complement those monster heads. Ive been trying to find a good set of aftermarket heads too. You need a really good rod to turn the rpm's to make those Indy heads scream. But as far as your list goes, I'd have to say
Brodix Indy Edlebrock Mopar Performance I'd say the Edlebrock have alot of potential right out of the box, they've got decent flow on the intake 284.1 at .700 lift Indy flow 301 at .800 lift untouched. With maximum porting 353 at .800" lift. I've never really checked into Ma Mopars heads. If your really interested call Ken Hensley 865-947-0426. He can answer all of your questions and he's a hell of a nice guy. Good Luck |
#8
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This is the kind of question that comes up from time to time and usually gets alotta responses. We LOVE this question!And now we have a new head to throw in the mix--Edlebrock! It's really: What is your cup of tea? My flavor is Brodix B1-B/S. But with all thse heads I think you will want to un-shroud your block because of the relatively small bore you're working with. But with running the low-block the good news is you should have fewer header "issues" to deal with. Just use an RB header on the heads with raised exhuast ports like the B/S, Indy SR or MP Stage VI and your fitment problems should be less. Good luck with whatever you decide!
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#9
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Out of the box the Indy S/R, Brodix B-1 B/S, and Edelbrock all flow about the same. The Edelbrock is the least expensive and accepts all the stock parts. The Indy heads need the external oiling kit, and maybe offset intake rocker arms, The Brodix B-1 B/S requires the offset intake rocker arms. I think the Brodix head has the best combustion chamber design, which is a small 65cc heart shaped "swirl" chamber with re-located spark plug for a faster burning head and more compression or "quench" using flat top pistons. I only run 31 to 32 degrees advance on my 451 with these heads. I have ran more advance, but the car did not go any quicker. The draw back is most street compression ratios will require "dished" pistons, the flat tops (zero deck) on a 440, or 451 will produce over 12:1 compression (nearer to 13:1.)
The Mopar Stage VI does not flow as good "out of the box", and requires intake spacers on RB engines, and a RB intake on B engines. They also may need offset intake rocker arms. The Indy 440-1 uses Max Wedge port sizes, so you need the matching intake, gaskets, external oiling system, and I think rocker arms. These have large ports which may hurt lower RPM torque on a street engine under 500 cid, but they flow really good out of the box. Any of the aluminum heads will require changing to ARP head studs or Bolts with hardened washers. You may need custom length pushrods with some of these heads. The Edelbrocks are reported to work with stock rockers and pushrods. My Brodix B-1 B/S heads used cut to length pushrods, which ended up being stock length (go figure.) |
#10
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How fast are you trying to go? in what weight car ? max rpm? compression ratio? and will it see street duty?...........PRO....
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#11
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If you run the b1 bs heads make sure you grove number 4 cam bearing.... if you don't it will under oil the rocker arms and burn the push rod ends....... This has not been a problem with my indys or edelbrocks.....This is the way i see it....Indys or true b1s , full race big cid motors, lots of cam and compression...B1 Bs, indys sr, edelbrocks....good for mild cams, smaller cid 383 to 440, lower compression...Mopar heads, waste of money as i see it..... so my pick would be edelbrocks...price, ease of factory parts fitting.. I also like the b1 bs heads but they have header problems(fit) and price...Lee....
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#12
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My opinion Indy heads are the best!!!!
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#13
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Just Great Having a Choice!
Remember when a BB Mopar had only a choice between 906 and 915's?? IMO, all these heads aren't created equal, as each seems to have it's own niche.
1st, the new Edelbrocks, are a bolt-on replacement for ported and crack-prone cast iron 906 and 915 heads..period.I own a set, and my 10.70 440 runs the same as it did with the massively ported 915's they replaced. They are an excellent value at thier price and I'm VERY happy with them, but they are NOT a race head!! I talked to Ken Lazzeri of Indy heads at length at the MMW in St. Louis, and his take was' "We are selling them, because Edelbrock built the PERFECT stock-replacement head..but they are SO GOOD out of the box that more than a slight clean-up is a waste of time and money. We've had them on the Dyno and only found minimal increases with PORTING them, so DON't throw your money away on portwork"!! These would DEFINITELY be my choice on a street/strip car..especially with a smaller cube engine. 2nd, With Mopar's Stage VI, you have a head with the PERFORMANCE(with work) of an Edelbrock and a COST of a B1/BS or Indy SR!! Not a good deal unless you can get a set used at a substantially lower price! My dad has a set on his 7500 rpm 383 and it picked up 3 tenths over the template ported 906's...But we got them used with a racecar we bought, and the previous owner had nearly $2600 in them...that's just too much money for that level of performance. 3rd, Indy SR and B1/BS are serious race heads for the 383-474 inch crowd..they aren't really out-of-the-box heads, and respond to port work great! Cost is comparable so I guess it comes down to personal preference. My Dad has SR's on a solid cammed 440, with an additional 1000$ dollars of port work from Indy, that is going 9.70's in a 2900 Challenger!! 4th, Indy 440-1's, big bucks for the complete top end...but big performance too!! My brother has a pair of these on a 500 inch low deck engine that Ken Lazzeri told him was "way under cammed and under carbed", and is still going 9.50's in a 2800lb 70AMX!! I believe these are as good a value at $4000+, as the Edelbrocks are at $1250. 5th, Many people compare the Indy 440 -1's to the Original B1's...I don't. the B1 is a HUGE head that needs at least a 500" engine spinning over 7000 to truly be effective. They are certainly awesome...if you have a short block that will live up to thier flow potential. Differing opinions/experiences welcome..I love this topic! |
#14
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Jims451,
I'd have to agree with you about the B1/bs combustion chamber!! Saw my first pair at the MMW, and they are works of art! |
#15
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heads
Thank you guys for all this info. It will help me a lot....from Doug
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#16
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Sounds to me like the Edelbrocks are "more bang for the buck", I would choose them for a car that sees any street use!
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#17
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I recently sold my new,in the box Edelbrocks for a set of Indy 440-1 heads. I'm building a 493 stroker, so the Edelbrocks would'nt have been able to keep up with the air flow the motor needs. If I was building a 440, I would have stayed with the Edelbrocks. The Indy 440-1 heads are bad to the bone though, and I'm happy with them.
Rob |
#18
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I really hate expressing opinions not based on actual experiences but im gonna go agaist the majority and vote For the MP VI. For the street it has big potential.
First they're 2nd in OVERALL price not just purchase price. With all the special hard ware most of the other heads require this is a big plus for a street head. Also, and correct me if i'm wrong, don't most singal plane 383 intakes suckass? The inner intake runners are so pinched in for bolt clearance, that it totally screws the fuel distibution . Even in a perfect world and your intake had ideal fuel distibution in the 'good' ports, HALF the engine is being choked!! Can having a raised intake port ever be a bad thing? With the Stage VI using the RB intake, these two facts alone should enable it to out perform the other heads on the street, despite them flowing better. Yes/No? Wouldn't most of us define a "street" engine's cam being under or around .550"? How do these heads flow curves compare at and below this limit? We all know that HUGE peak flow doesn't do us crap on the street if it's at .700" and our cam's only .550". How do their flow ADVERAGES compare from this lift down? The stageVI might stall at a lower lift but provide MORE air at ALL lift points below this than the other heads. I concure that OUT OF THE BOX the Stage VI's suck. Mp spent about 15min per port on these heads and gained an average of 30-40 cfm AT ALL LIFT points not just peak. Once again it's area under the curve not peak flow at an arbitrary lift. Its velocity not volume, right? For a bracket car i'd vote different but for the street...well, enough said. Dave |
#19
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When I was at the head market my conclution was that the Indy SR's, Stage VI's and the B1/BS's were all about the same pricewise. I got a very good deal on Stage VI's in '93 at our local speed shop. They had had a paie warming the shelfs a couple of years and wanted to get risd of them, so I paid only about 800$ for a complete pair. That was in '93 and they are the "prone to crack" ones. However, this pair has worked great; at the time I ported them and they heav performed pretty decently. Now after nine years they are going through a rebuild and will recieve bigger, longer valves and port work to raise the port volume. I have heard that the qualityof the current Stage VI's is not very good and you have to add some money to the initial cost to make things right (new guides, valve jobs). The casting has also been changed so that they are better out of the box (they needed to do it becausethey went in to BB crate engines) but according to experts are not quite as good for porting than the earlier ones. On a low block engine they are a good choice, but don't really like the spacer thing with the RB. The RB Stage VI intakes by MP are not very good, I've heard.
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#20
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Like myduster360 said, you have to have good head flow numbers in a usuable lift range.
If some heads flow 250 cfm at .500" lift, and 350 cfm at .750" lift, and you install them with a .500" lift cam, you do NOT have 350 cfm heads, you have 250 cfm heads! A lot of the porting articles I've read and flow charts I've seen have big numbers, but only at higher lifts that most street / strip engines never get up to. Even fully ported W-2's can't work well with a small cam. |
#21
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heads
MoparbillyG, i think you pretty much nailed it. I see it the same way, have experiance with 906s ported, two sets of indys, 440-c and 440-1s and have a friend with a 69 fury that has eddys,runs low elevens with 9.5 compression and a flat tappet. I hope to get a set of B-1s or brewers for the 572 shortblock i am working toward. Now that ought to liven up the ole hotrod!
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#22
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All the heads do flow in the same basic range out of the box. But if you look at port volume, you will find the edelbrocks are stock, which is alot smaller than the rest. That means they are very effecient and would work very well on a street engine. They even work quite well on a 500cid street engine.
As far as minimal porting gains, the large gains will be had at the pushrod restriction. But then the port gets larger. Port size is more or less dependent on engine size, intended rpm range and rod length. If i was going to run a 431 on the street it would be Edelbrocks all the way. |
#23
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Wow... another 2 year old thread coming back to life...
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#24
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Other/ New Mopar Stage VI
I didn't see anyone mention the new Chapman Mopar Stage 6 heads. I don't know if anyone saw the article in Mopar Muscle but
I believe they ran a 12:1 440 with Max ported Iron heads, 915's, and got a pretty stout 630 hp. They then switched to the new Chapman heads and got over 760hp! I believe Steve Dulcich authored the article and his engine made the most peak hp in the Enginmasters challenge. These heads come in 3 different port configurations, so the smaller ports are probably better suited to a street / strip application. |
#25
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could it be that they were not mentioned, as this question was posted over 2 years before those heads came out??
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#26
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Wow Ed, I didn't notice when the thread was started!
I just saw the topic and put my 2 cents in. That's pretty funny! Hedgehog, you must be really bored to search that far back, reminds me of myself, I have about a billion old magazines that I can't let go of! |
#27
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There has been some weird things going on with this site lately. I didn't bring this thread back to life. I responded to it because it was on the main page when i came on this site. I didn't pay any attention to the dates. I did no searches.
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#28
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I believe you hedgehog. Notice that this thread is a poll. All it takes is for someone to vote on it to bring it back to the top. I've been noticing this a lot lately. Maybe there should be a time limit on polls, after which the thread gets locked?
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#29
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Hello
As for the Chapman Mopar heads will cost you more than ay of the heads mentioned except for the Brewers or somthing. Even a fully ported -1 Indy would be cheaper. But now since the Bulldog head has been out a while, although seems no one stepping forward on some infor that has seen actual track time. These heads bring you a SR style head that excepts bolt ons like the Eddys for not much more. definatly cheaper than Indy's stuff. And the best thing as they have room to grow. can be opened to Max wedge port window. Can flow in the 350 cfm in full boggy form and still have stock header and rockers, also no external cheese oil lines to run. I bought The eddy's for my 493 becuase they have been proven both street and strip winners for years now. Best Bang for the buck. The big questions are. 1) How fat is your wallet? 2) How fast do you want to go. www.hughesengines.com info for the Bulldog's they sell them as a few other people do to, if you dont want to deal with these guys, seems there no very nice people. |
#30
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There we go. The poll is now closed.
I do think that it is rather funny that someone did go back two years in the threads and voted on an old poll. |
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