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  #1  
Old 07-16-2001, 02:10 AM
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tuffbird tuffbird is offline
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Default Nitrous, Turbo or Supercharger???

I've been following along with the topics of supercharging, adding nitrous and turbo charging a 440.

I have never owned a vehicle with anything but natural aspiration...but I am intrigued. My current setup is a 440 bored .040 over. It has stock 452 heads, cast crank, 8.5 to 1 compression and is running a cam with these specs INT/EXH: 224/234 duration @ .050
282/292 duration @ .008
.465/.488 Lift w/ 1.5 rocker ratio
Headers are the Hedman 78036 1-7/8 and is hooked to the 3" TTI exhaust system
The Tranny is a TF727 using the B&M Transkit which runs back to an open 3.23:1 gearset.
Breathing is currently accomplished through a Speed Demon 750 into a Mopar M1 Dual Plane intake

Currently the car has run a best of 13.67 @ 109 mph using a set of Nitto Drag Radials (still get a spin though)

Some folks around my area have been trying to get me on the bottle....a small 75 or 100hp shot. However, I've always been of the opinion that Nitrous done wrong can be extremely hazardous to my health (images of nitrous fires and bottle explosions). So to that, I would like to get opinions on what the pros and cons are of Nitrous, Centrifugal supercharging, or running a couple of Turbos are.

I'm not afraid of experimentation as long as it does not involve cutting up the car any. I've built the engine, tranny, driveshaft, rear axle, brake system, complete electrical as well as all my own interior work. So I'm very mechanically inclined...the only problem is, I've stayed away from these three systems so I'm unfamiliar with them and the components that make the systems work.

Regards,
Tuffbird
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Old 07-16-2001, 07:25 AM
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blownhemi blownhemi is offline
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Well with your comp you in blower or turbo territory.

Now I favor the blower myself (no really!! )

There a guy here in Australia who casts up manifolds and everything for Chryslers. Something that doesn't seem to be readily available over there, unless you want to run a hemi.
Now i just bought a kit off him for a small block and it was $3050aus. Which means a kit for you guys would be around $1600us, all you have to add is a 6/71 blower. Now a 6/71 on your 440 might be a little in your face but hell it's going to make alot of horsepower. These kit's also sit as low as possible, in an aussie charger (a-body) a small block kit has the top of the 6/71 level with the bonnet skin (that's the hood to you guys), so only your carbies and air cleaners would protrude. Now I don't know what sort of car you are running but it's got to have more clearance than an A body!!

Superchargers are also less complicated than turbo's. No oil lines, no intercooler plumbing, no wastegates or blow-off valves, no turbo timers. Just a blower, a belt, an idler pulley and more horsepower than you'll ever need.

The responses to this should be interesting.
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  #3  
Old 07-16-2001, 08:47 AM
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I think you know which way I lean....
Turbos are far more efficient than superchargers. That means more power to the ground.
Yeah, the installation is a bit more involved, but the results are well worth it. As an added bonus, the turbos make zero sound at idle and will tone down the exhaust note. Sleeper mode!
Check out the book Mazimum Booost by Corky Bell. You can get it at www.cartech.net and be sure to read the whole thing. It's full of great info even if you don't go turbo.
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Old 07-16-2001, 12:13 PM
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DartMan360 DartMan360 is offline
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Nitrous- If everything is set up rite you will last for a long time. But if it isnt you probly know the first time you use it. The only way to run on the bottle is have a seperate fuel system. But if you look at it this way your going to be paying 400-500 or more for a kit. I dont know how much it is to refill a bottle where your at but Summit wants 47 bucks. A 10lbs bottle using a 100hp shot is only good for 10-12 1/4 passes. So it does get expensive over time. Turbos are alot of time spent to get everything and make it work. Because their is no kit for your car out their you have to custom make some stuff. If you go with the blower idea they are easy to find for a s.b or a big block. Check BDS. They have the best looking and best priced kits around. What ever you do make sure you read up on everything. Everyone thinks that they can just stick something on and it will work. Your 8-1 motor is perfect for a blower motor.
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Old 07-16-2001, 10:48 PM
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Default The car...

Here is a picture of my 72 Plymouth Road Runner. You can see why I don't really want to cut it up to make anything fit. That being said, can anyone suggest a good manual on superchargers and what it would take to fit a centrifugal type into the car without poking holes in anything? Also, a question on the turbo manual listed earlier...does it have information about wastegates, what types of turbos are available and how the routing needs to be run? I'm looking for some comprehensive info...something I can read and then do by examples...I've got both ARC and MIG experience so making my own piping isn't a problem. Do these methods require any type of computer control equipement?



Regards, Tuffbird
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  #6  
Old 07-17-2001, 01:01 AM
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TT440 TT440 is offline
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Default Nice toy!

like the hot rod!
You don't have to cut it up. You've got much more room than I do and it should fit nicely under the hood. I had a '74 and a '69. They both have much larger engine bays.
That book is all inclusive. It walks you from a beginner's "what is a turbo" all the way to testing a system retrofitted to a late model car. He doesn't get annoying and talk down to his readers. It is written clearly and with a minimum of confusing verbage. A big thumbs up.
Here's a run-down:
1997 publishing date
1) An engineering look at the basics
2) acquiring a turbocharged vehicle
3) selecting the turbocharger
4) turbocharger lubrication
5) Intercooling
6) intake manifold
7) electronic fuel injection
8) carburetion
9) events in the chamber
10) exhaust manifold design
11) exhaust system
12) boost controls
13) preparing the engine
14) testing the system
15) trouble
16) developments in turbocharging
17) bringing it all together
18) installing a turbo kit
suppliers
glossary

I do like a comparison he makes in the book. It involves a Turbo 300Z and a 911 turbo. Nissan used quick spooling turbos to impress people on test drives. Porsche went with a slower spooling turbo for more power and better heat control on it's air cooled engine. His opinion is that Porsche should be credited with doing a fine job. Nissan should be credited with selling lots of cars.
His rule? Never send a child to do a man's job.

Even if you don't go with a turbo, his book will probably open your eyes to some things you hadn't considered.
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  #7  
Old 07-17-2001, 10:27 AM
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rumblefish360 rumblefish360 is offline
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Tuffbird;
WOW, nice ride there dude. I'm for a S-charger myself. Careful selection should be made before a purchase. Some will provide power sooner than later. There are several companys that sell them. The lil S-chargers fit under the hood nicely.

TT440;

Thanks for posting a place to get a book on this turbocharging. Do you need to have some type of computer to run various systems of the turbo. (Non fuel injected car)
Its easy to see I know nothing on tubos. I did get one book on it. Left my head spinning without finishing.
LOL [QUOTE][QUOTE] never send a child to do a mans job Now thats funny!!!!!
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  #8  
Old 07-17-2001, 01:51 PM
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Default Computer?

Does my MSD 6a box count? That's the only electronic part I put in the car.
The turbo system is all mechanical. Didja go to teh site and look at the pics? If you fish around in them a little bit, you'll find how simple it really is.
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  #9  
Old 07-19-2001, 08:21 PM
BILL THOMPSON BILL THOMPSON is offline
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Default NOS

I would be afraid to put a supercharger or turbo to your motor without a steel crank because it would be constant pressure on the crank but a small 100 horse nos kit used correctly would probably do O.K.with a progressive nos controller you could probably go deep in the 12's
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Old 07-19-2001, 08:39 PM
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I've run a blower on a cast crank motor for 3 years and made in excess of 150 passes on a 360 cast crank. There is no problem with cast cranks, just don't confuse them with chevies.
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  #11  
Old 07-19-2001, 09:42 PM
MOPARMAN2 MOPARMAN2 is offline
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I would go down the turbo road myself, they seem to be more efficient than a supercharger. I have a 4 cylinder Daytona with a turbo that runs 14.30's with just larger injectors and a computer. Turbo's use the exhaust, while superchargers run of the belt which takes away power. But fabrication for the headers/exhaust for a turbo is another task in itself. Here is a great site for some examples.

http://www3.edgenet.net/sdce/
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  #12  
Old 07-20-2001, 11:43 AM
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Default Hey Bill

Did you know that N2O is harder on internal parts than a blower?
The initial shot of N2O will hit the cylinders irratically. When you hit the spray, it's an instant shot. Whichever valves are open will suck the stuff down. It will stress the block, rods, and crank quite a bit if you're running a mild motor with a heavy shot (not the 100 you mentioned).
With a blower or turbo, the pressure is built over a couple hundred RPM and is far easier on the components.
I do like the fact that you can double the engine output and only increase the internal pressures about 25% assuming the same RPM.
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Old 07-20-2001, 09:50 PM
dewme5 dewme5 is offline
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id say its somewhere between "nice and smooth" and "being rearended by a bus!" the boost comes on hard and fast. but it doesnt really pose a traction problem.! compared to hitting hard like nitrous
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  #14  
Old 07-21-2001, 06:10 AM
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Biggrin

All this turbo talk got me thinking.

I've had a rather large Rajay trubo and a 42mm wastegate sitting here for a couple of years. So I put the spec's through my dyno program, and to say I was shocked was an understatement. At 6psi boost, no intercooler, and with a blower grind cam the computer is saying 470hp at 6500 rpm. You say "So What! Sure that's respectable but nothing to scream about!" So now what if I told you these figures were for a 273 with 360 heads!!! And if I let the boost out to 10psi it becomes 530hp!!!

The result of all this now i'm about to turbo the 273 in my ute (pick-up). It won't take long and I'll let you all know how I go. Oh, by the way it will be EFI as well. We have some excellent injection computers in Australia, more than in the US it seems. I'll probably go for a Haltech system with bosch injectors.


This should make a great sleeper as I ran the car the other night at the dragstrip. It cracked an amazing 16.9 at 80 mph .
Now the trap is set I'll line up some reruns after the turbo goes on. I'm sure to see some jaws drop.
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  #15  
Old 07-21-2001, 07:59 AM
DAVE JONES DAVE JONES is offline
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You guys got me going again on this blower thing. While we're on the subject of blowers, has anyone tried a
blown 6 pack?. I posted awhile ago about useing a blower on a
sb with 10.125 compression and got the obvious responses.
At some point I am going to change my motor over so I can run a blower setup but want to try my 6 pack on top. I can easily machine up an adapeter plate to mount the carbs so that is not a problem. I have 1 set of 70' carbs that are stock and the outboards are vaccum. I have another set of 70' carbs that I changing to mechanical with accelerator pumps on the outboards that can be adjusted to open at any time. If I try the 6 pack on top, which setup would work better. The vaccum or mechanical and why.
Next question is for all...........When running a blower and 4 bbl carbs are used, is it better to run vaccum or mechanical with them also. Probably the same answer as above but I just want to cover it..........thanks..........Dave
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