Handling Question!

[R/T Racing]

WELL HERE I AM IN NEED OF HELP AGAIN.....LOL ONE OF THE TRACKS WE ARE RUNNING HERE IN NY IS GIVING US SOME GRIEF. THE TRACK IS 1/3 MILE , CLAY, 30 DEG BANKING,THE CAR HANDLES GREAT UNTILL ABOUT HALFWAY THRU THE RACE THEN IT FADES ON US MEANING THAT IT STARTS TO PUSH AND JUST WONT GO AROUND THEM CORNERS. I KNOW WE ARE GAINING SOME PRETTY SERIOUS AIR PRESSURE WHICH ISN'T HELPING US BUT WHAT I WAS CONSIDERING WAS MY SHOCKS! IS IT POSSIBLE FOR THESE THINGS TO GET HOT AND FAIL TO WORK PROPERLY? THE REASON I ASK IS I BELIEVE THAT A MOPAR TORSION BAR SUSPENSION IS SOFTER THAN A CHEBBY WHICH MAKES OUR SHOCKS WORK EVEN MORE, IS THIS CORRECT?. I HAVE RACED 3 OTHER TRACKS HERE WHICH ARE ALOT FLATTER THAN THIS ONE AND THE CAR WILL RUN GOOD THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE RACE. GIVE ME SOME INPUT ON THIS SUBJECT! THANKS

[Rich33]

I don't recall if you mentioned it before (sorry), but what kind of car, spring/torsion rates, corner weights, LS and rear percentages are you running? Plus, what type of shock do you have on the car now? What is the track doing? Is it rough? Is it going dry-slick? Are you pushing or skating up the track in the corners?

I don't know if I can help, but if you give more info, somebody can!

[roundyroundman]

You might want to try some nitrogen in your tires ,it will slowdown the air pressure gain ,but it sounds like your shocks are getting hot ,after the race feel your shocks if there scalding hot ,you will need to buy some better quality shocks ,check your air pressure after the races and see what kinda gain you get ,sometimes you got to slowdown to go faster ,spinning the rear wheels feels good ,but if you are getting them to hot it will cost you at 2 half of the race ,save your car for the 2 half ,thats where you will pass most of your competition ,

[R/T Racing]

I MAY BE OVERREACTING A LITTLE CAUSE THE CAR HAS BEEN WORKING PRETTY GOOD FOR US, BUT THIS PAST WEEKAND WE HAD OUR BIG RACE OF THE YEAR WHICH ENDED UP BEING ON A VERY DRY SLICK TRACK WHICH THATS THE WAY IT USUALLY IS BUT NOT QUITE AS BAD AS IT WAS THIS WEEKAND,THE TRACK IS USUALLY PRETTY SMOOTH, ANYWAY WE ARE RUNNING 50% REAR WEIGHT, ABOUT 51% LS, AND 49% CROSS WIEGHT, NOW I AM GOING FROM MEMORY BUT THESE ARE CLOSE. WE ARE USING 3 WAY ADJUSTABLE CARRERA'S ON THE FRONT AND A SET OF AFCO'S ON THE REAR, AND A SET 2.0's BARS ON THE FRONT WHICH I KNOW YOU HAD TOLD ME BEFORE TO GO WITH 1.2's OR THE 1.6's. OUR MAIN PROBLEM THIS WEEKAND WAS PUSHING, BUT LIKE I SAID I MAY BE OVERREACTING CAUSE IT HAS BEEN HANDLING DECSENT, AND THIS WEEKAND WE BUILT APPROX. 4 TO 5 POUNDS OF AIR PRESSURE.

[R/T Racing]

I'M GLAD YOU MENTIONED NITROGEN CAUSE WE HAD THROWN THAT IDEA AROUND BUT BEING NEW TO RACEING WE WERE NOT QUITE SURE HOW THIS PROCESS WAS DONE? COULD YOU POSSIBLY DIRECT ME IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION?

[roundyroundman]

You get nitrogen at your locall welding supply where you get your oxgen and accetyline ,most of the time ,they should be able to direct you anyway ,your problem could be numerous things ,the best i can tell you is lookat your shock travel ,in a pefect situation your shock travel be as close to equal as possible ,but that only the start ,i usually weigh the difference between the rear tires say anywhere from 0 to 100 heavy left rear ,most of the time 40 lb left rear is a good starting point (40 lbs heavy over rt wheel ) dirt only ,pavement a different story ,theres some much to consider ,location of fuel cell ,ballast ,etc ,as fuel burns off it will change the percentages of the car and the way it handles ,we liked running the fuel cell on the rt off the car ,as it burned off it would tighten the car up ,but each car has its differences ,look at rt frt wheel camber and check temperature across it ,it will tell you a lot off what happening if tire real hot on outside ,you need more postive camber etc ,focus on getting that tire to have same temp all the way across ,all the tires on the car ,stagger ? you need to stay away from excessive amounts ,1/2to 2 in ,the less the better ,I have started the feature with backwards stagger before on a real dry slick track before ,knowing that the rt rear would grow more than the lt rear ,focusing on the 2 half of the feature my car would be coming in ,while everbodys else would be going away ,but you need to focus on these other things and see what is going on

[AVENGER29]

We have spent a lot of time on scales, on ours 5 psi difference,right front or left rear,represents 1 % of cross weight
difference, thats a significant difference. To us, that could be from loose to tight. Recommend nitrogen or bleed off valves, speedway motors has them, not cheap,propably a couple of 100 bucks for set. But worth it if it puts you up front, + i hate a tight car,would rather have a car so loose that its undriveable than have a car that has a slight push!!!!
avenger

[roundyroundman]

I put positive camber when I meant negative camber ,I must be a sleep at the wheel ,the better you can get equal tire temp ,the more grip you will get

[340king]

I agree with what has been said already. I was thinking about the differences in the tracks. Usually, on high banked tracks, you need a different weight bias from left to right. This is due to the banking. The higher the banking, the more the springs absorb the energy of the centripetal acceleration. What that translates to is a decrease in the amount of weight that is transfered to the right side during cornering. Typically, a stiffer spring is required on the entire car to overcome the effects of the steeper angle.

Dry slick acts like higher banking, in a way. It reduces the side bite, eliminating some of the weight transfer. Usually, moving balast, re-arranging track bars or offsets can make up for this reduction in traction. We are always trying to get to the magical equal load on each tire to maximize speed on dry slick tracks.

I think that you may have a combination of the track banking and severe dry slick conditions that pushed (pun intended) your car into poor handling.

The only answer I have for you is that as you increase the banking, things like raising the ballast and geometrical chassis changes are less effective. This is because the body roll component decrease and the normal force(the downward force you feel inside the car) increases. You may have to look at static weight distribution changes to accomplish your goal.

[GregY]

Is the track you're talking about Woodhull Raceway? There's only one 1/3 mile clay track with 30 degrees of banking in New York that I know of, and it's Woodhull.

I'm sorry I can't help you with your problem as I have never been a stock-car racer, but I spent many Saturday nights at Woodhull as a kid (and a few as an adult) watching the races. Good luck!

Greg

P.S. Have you been to the Chemung Speedrome since it reopened? I spent many, many, many, many nights there as a kid!

[R/T Racing]

HEY THERE GREG Y YES IT IS WOODHULL RACEWAY I'M TALKING ABOUT, AND YES THEY SAY IT'S ONE OF THE TOUGHEST TRACKS IN THE NORTHEAST, WHICH I THINK I WOULD HAVE TO AGREE! THIS IS MY FIRST YEAR RACING, WE HAVEN'T GOT ONE OF THOSE FLAGS YET BUT I THINK WE HAVE A PRETTY GOOD CHANCE, IT'S KINDA TOUGH RUNNIN A MOPAR UP HERE CAUSE THIS IS CHEBBY LAND AND WE HAVE TO FIGURE EVERYTHING OUT OURSELVES BUT THANK GOD FOR A WEB SITE LIKE THIS CAUSE IT HELPS, WELL ANYWAY THANKS FOR THE REPLY!

[Mopar Trac]

Another good place to look at for a push is the front suspension bushings. Had one car that would work perfectly on a wet or tacky track then in feature would develop a push so bad as to be undrivable. Found the bushings bad on the lower control arms it would let the caster and camber change on every little bump. Drove us nuts because some nights done real good and others wouldn't turn at all. Would also let the chassis get out of shape real easy made for a long night for driver!
Hope this helps