Indy Maxx Aluminum Block

Need info from ANYONE who has used or is familiar with this block when used for Drag Racing. Need to know +'s and -'s beyond weight savings and cost. Want to use in NHRA Super Gas 500ci combo.

[montrose ram]

SuperGasser--I think we're all about $4500.too poor to answer your question. They sure do look great on paper, tho! If you dont get any help on this forum try posting on the Drag Racing forum or going to www.moparts.com. Good luck!

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[DartGT66]

I was considering one for street use, but was told not to by engine builders outside Indy.

[GTXMONTE]

The Maxx is a good piece, the only down side is having to deal with Indy Cylinder Head to get one. The casting is good and they are stiff, the only problem I have seen is the freeze plugs, make sure you "stake" them in the block real good.

Monte Smith

[montrose ram]

DART=Supergasser said he wants to use it only for dragracing. I'm curious, tho, what advice you got not to use this block on a street or dual purpose car? I also would like to reduce front end weight by 100 lbs! And still drive to cruises and such!

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[Thunderhead]

I'm curious as to what problem you have had with Indy GTXMONTE. People or delays?
Thunderhead

[DartGT66]

They told me it would leak, but I didn't ask them what since I really wasn't interested in paying a couple of thousand extra for the weight reduction in the first place. Will propably get the Cross bolted steel block instead but at the moment MP is out of supply. Hope they will get new ones in Schedule or I'll be in trouble, don't want to invest on a new 'capwalker' anymore.

[GTXMONTE]

Indy makes an excellent product and a lot of things you can't get anywhere else, therein lies the problem, they know you can't get it anywhere else and they have you by the pills. They don't seem to care if you buy it from them or not as their business is huge and Joe racer wanting to talk about heads takes too much of their time. I know them all quite well, Russ, Fred, Kenny, Jim, Mike and the others. I have no problem with any of them personally, in fact we're freinds, I just don't like to do business with them.
I waited for them to build me a custom block for over a year and never got it, just never "found the time" I was told. I wish they would have just told me they did not want to do it from the start.
dartGT66...some of the early blocks had leakage problems, but this have been fixed in the casting. As I said, this is an excellent piece and would give no problem on the street.

Monte Smith

[DartGT66]

How do you feel about the MP siamesed bore block? I sure could use some weight off the front with my current 53/47% weight distribution, and I believe the MP block is even heavier than a production one. MP should have those blocks before the year ends, if they don't I have to reconcider the aluminum block. The problem here is that those parts do not exist, there is nowhere you can go and take a look at them. Anything even a little special and you always have to order the parts 'blind', and wait for them a month or two. So I really appreciate this kind of forums where you can get some opinions from first hand experienced people that have no financial back thoughts in their replys.

[Thunderhead]

Thanks GTXMONTE. Just wanted to know. I grew up there in Wanamaker and though I don't "know" them I have met them years ago when their biz was no where near what it is today. I'll still deal with them. I really like their parts. BTW, have you guys ever run the Indy dual plane intake? Thinking of using one on my next project.
Thunderhead

[GTXMONTE]

The MP siamese block is about 75lbs heavier than a stock block. It is very strong and made out of good iron. Two problems though, no low deck available and it's so damn heavy. By the way the quality control on the MP stuff is about like production, so expect it to need square decking and don't be surprised if it needs a line hone. The block has extra meat around the cam for future raised cam applications, so if you run a belt or gear drive check before assy. as this will require quite a bit of grinding.
Thunderhead.....never tried the dual plane from Indy, but they test their stuff heavily, so I'm sure it's a good piece.

Monte Smith

[MD]

Maybe the Mopar Performance quality isn't great, but Indy's isn't either. Their machine work is generally poor and a short block I bought from them had to be disassembled to be cleaned. The piston pins had been installed with dust on them and were tight in the pin bores, and the rings were gapped at .025" and .035" instead of the .017" and .019" as they were "supposed" to be according to the "spec sheet" included with the engine (this wasn't a nitrous engine).

Perhap all of Indy's work isn't that bad, but I have no intention of ever buying again to find out.

[GTXMONTE]

I used to work in a machine shop (Huntsville Engine) and we saw some pretty shody work from many of the name builders, I'm talking about motors in NHRA world championship super comp cars for one example. Now we all know that they are capable of first class work or they would'nt be a "name" builder. The problem arises when you get so busy that your top guys can't keep up and you have to hire some "help", this is where the sloppy work comes in. Some racers don't care, they have plenty of cash, they break a motor, they get another, no big deal. Most shops have two types of customers, the "class racer" and the "bracket or .90 class racer". The class racer gets the best work because attention to detail is what makes these motors run and because this attention to detail costs big money. The bracket racer gets the motor assembled by the less experienced guy or he gets the "crate" motor they have in stock, this is usually where the lack of detail is found. For this reason I would not buy a "crate" engine from anybody. Now don't get me wrong, any competent shop can do first class work, you just have to get them to do it. If you have the ability to tell them what you want (clearances,gaps,hone finish,CR,etc) and know how to check it, you can get it done. If you are not experienced enough to call your own shots and must trust someone, the local shop with a good rep is your best bet, don't call one of the "names", you will just be another guy on the list to ship a motor to. Most of the small local shops will spend the same time on the "class" or "bracket" motor....why....they can't afford the bad rap.

Monte Smith

[451boy]

Monte, I agree completely. Unless you're a big name yourself, stay away from the big name houses. I've found that I get much better work from the local machine shop than from the big name Mopar guys. The local guy knows me, knows my car, and likes to work with me. The big name Mopar shop 2000 miles away doesn't give a damn about me. I suppose if I was #1 qualifer every week in KOS then the big Mopar shop would pay attention to my motor.
I might modify this rule if you live in the boondocks and there isn't a local shop around. But every place I've ever lived there has always been a decent machine shop in the back of a NAPA or some other place, run by a true gear head like myself. Find those guys in your local area and work with them. Of course, to get a Maxx block you're going to have to deal with Indy, but once you get the block, I'd take it to someone local.

[451Mopar]

I never dely with Indy unless AeroHead is part of Indy?
I was really impressed with the quality of work I got from Koffels Place (this was back when they only had one shop.) Their prices seemed a bit high, but the quality of the work done was better than I expected.

I had my new 360 engine machined at Madcap Racing in Denver, and they did a really good job and everything went together with all the correct clearances, but they are busy so it took them several weeks to machine the block.

In fact every "good" shop seems to be so busy, that you can usually expect about a 3-month time table to get shortblocks or heads.

My 451 Stroker shortblock came from Muscle Motors, and the machining seemed good except for the enlarged oil pump pickup. I have had others complain about the 1/2" modified pickup is threded to small for the pickup tube. Other than that, they could hav packaged the block better for shipping as the engine came loose durring shipping and got pretty dirty (this is a short block, no oil pan, heads, etc.)
On the plus side this engine has had a few thousand hard miles put on it with about two dozen days at the drag strip (well over 120+ 12 second passes in a 4,050 lb car at 6,000 ft altitude.)

[wedge542]

indy is in need of a pub relations dept but there research & dev program is tops,with seven cnc machines they are big,ive dealt wth them for years but they dont like phone info.i started to buy a max years ago but had so much trouble getting info over the phone i was afraid to send that much money to a company that didnt have time to talk or talked down to you,that was before ken started there so ended up buying a mega block,[completly unmachined]and done all clearancing myself and a machine shop do all the other,it is heavy and strong,about anybody dealing in mopar parts will sell you one wth prices about the same[unmachined]but prices vary alot for machine work if you shop around,i personaly think getting it and overseeing all aspects of machine work localy worked better for me but i have over 50k in tools and could do alot myself and ck all machine work before asembely,but if i had it to do over [now]the alum blk 100% because i have seen some and talked to people wth them.GTXmonte thanks again for the jesel setup.
[img] http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=240526&a=1787269&p=28484177&Sequence=4[/img]

[MD]

I had alway done my own work in the past except some of the machine work. I have a shop with CNCs myself, and although it's possible to do a lot of the engine work on them, it can be a real pain to tool up for jobs that someone like an engine shop already is prepared for.

I have since learned of a semi-local race engine machinist who is reputedly very good, although there are not many who I would trust with my expensive parts. Combined with that thought and the fact that time was short, I thought it was a viable option to have a finished shortblock shipped by a "name" builder. For myself, that wasn't the way.

The bottom line is that a really good engine usually costs either mega bucks to have it built right, or costs plenty in parts and your own time seeing that it's done right. I really feel bad for those who have to have all of the work done and plus don't know enough about checking the quality.


and BTW- AeroHead is Indy, if I'm not mistaken.

[Leigh]

I agree that local shops can be a source for quality work. They can also be as bad as the race only shops. Help comes and goes, they are usually months behind, the equipment sometimes is used up, and most importantly, they do mostly stock type builds and aren't in the loop on what is being done right now. If a stock type build with stock type dimensions is what you're after, they can do it right. If over 1.5 and up hp per cubic inch is planned, look out. I'm not saying a Napa or such can't do it, i'm saying the numbers on such places are really low. You guys who have a owner who REALLY cares are big time lucky. Anyone cutting on a $4,500.00 block better not be bulls!!ting me. My buider, Teasar Engineering, are totally professional in every regard. They have so many inside angles with other people, its unreal. By the way Monte, I read a thread that your GTX is EXTREMLY fast and fairly heavy to boot (3200 lbs?). Thats impressive. My best friends 2800 65 Dart(w/driver) 472 Indy, alky, 727, has run 9.38 (no power adders). It makes my 10 teen smallblock (3100 lbs, A body) sound like his starter motor! Yours must really roar.

[GTXMONTE]

I did'nt mean that it was impossible to get good work from a "name" builder, just that you likely would not get it on a generic "crate" motor. Muscle Motors is currently doing my new motor(first time I've ever let anyone do my motor) and I am confident it will be right. 451s experience at MadCap is another example, they are defintely big time builders. But I still think that if engine stuff is not your strong suit, stick to the local guy and build a relationship such as 451boy speaks off.

Leigh....my 3300lb GTX has been 8.20s on a 10.5 tire at nearly 170, of course thats with a BIG dose of oxide. The new motor (419 B1-TS) and new lightened chassis(3000lb) will hopefully get us in the 7s.

Monte Smith

[GTXMONTE]

Almost forgot...there is an option to dealing with Indy....call Steve & Sheila Bowman @ S&S Mopar, they are Indy dealers and will definitely help you out if they can.

S&S Mopar
5036 Roberson Farm Rd.
Kernersville, NC 27284
336-595-3616

Monte Smith

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SURGEON GENERALS WARNINGrag Racing is highly addictive, and may impair your ability to make rational decisions.

[DartGT66]

Think I'll get my block from either Indy or MM fully machined with pistons. The aluminum one sure would be temptating, and if there isn't any drawbacks I will highly consider it. My car is a pretty true pump gas street car, and my goal is to get it in to 9's on a regular base with pump gas and no NO. So far with the current RB it has gone under 10 seconds once, but the chassis isn't working too well, 60 ft's are in the 1.50's. Hope that with the new block and with couple of more cubes and bigger intake valves I'll get some more power, then I'll still have to figure how to get those tires bite.

[MD]

I like to be fair, I have told what Indy did wrong, so I'll say what I liked about them.

Ken did send the engine within a day or two of his promise, and he did remember me and most details with subsequent calls. The basic critical machine work was o.k., if you don't count the ring filing, although grinding was more like it. In other words their service was good.

My block is the mega-block, cnc lightened. I am pulling it apart to re-ring it(didn't have the time before, and since big ring gaps don't hurt part left it as is). Need to weigh it for 451boy, he is compiling facts and figures for engines.

I regret somewhat not using an aluminum block, they will save a minimum of 100lbs., which is a lot on the front of a car.

DartGT66- I would re-think big cubes on a limited chassis car, your increased low end torque will complicate things if you go too far. Notice Montes comments about his combo. Small tire, small engine with nitrous and good heads = very fast car (and a heavy one at that).

[DartGT66]

My main concern is not to be the quickest on the planet, but to be able to drive in the streets and to hold my own there. I understand your opinion about low torque / high rpm & power engine, but with pump gas you are not going to make much 7000+ rpm power anyway. It's also a matter of money, I need the new block, so at the same time I will make it as big as is sensible using my old crank, rods, heads, intake etc. Building a high rpm engine would need a shorter stroke, after that you have the problem of very 'big' moving parts because of the deck height of the RB etc. etc. I believe one reason Monte is building a small engine is because of the rules, if there weren't limitations I think he would also take all the displacement he could get. Since my car is only a streeter I don't have to watch the cu in or the weight of the car. But the money is the most determing object. However, the aluminum vs iron block is still an open question; the iron block is (was) 2700-3100$ fully machined, it's expensive, and the aluminum one is 4600$. The difference is still rather big, but I'm afraid that if I don't get that block now, it would bother me later I didn't. And on the + side is that the freight of the aluminum block to the other side of the world would be less expensive!

[Marc]

I'm still planning for the Indy Maxx block in my coupe. I've heard a thousand stories a thousand times and almost always it's full of ~you know what~.
I'm planning on an Indy Maxx block with Indy Hemi heads, 550ish cubes, MILD, and so expensive it BETTER not break.
I can't WAIT to get the shitty customer treatment...

[montrose ram]

GTXMONTE-Wondering what class you race in. Also is 419 a misprint- dont you mean 519? You said you're going to use TS heads-which is a "Pro-Stock" type head. But even they run 500 ci motors! So, you mean 519, right? Also, would you tell how you get a 'B' body to way only 3000 lbs? Sorry, if you've gone over this befor and I missd it. Thanks.

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[montrose ram]

Originally posted by GTXMONTE:
Indy makes an excellent product and a lot of things you can't get anywhere else, therein lies the problem, they know you can't get it anywhere else and they have you by the pills.



Monte Smith

Kieth Black also makes an excellent "water block".And my impression of KBRacing is that they are top notch professionals and act like it! my.02

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[GTXMONTE]

Montrose ram......no, you read that correctly, 419ci B1-TS motor. I run NMCA,NSCA Super Street, a weight per cube class. You need a light car so that means a small motor, you also need big power so that means the best head available, the TS. And yes it is difficult to get an all steel B body to 3000lbs, but it can be done. Last year it weighed 3280 with me in it, with a filled mega-block, torqueflite and all the stck frame rails and floor pans. Next year it will have alum block, powerglide and a chrome moly chassis which should get us under 3000 and give the chance to put the weight where it needs to be.
To be competitve in this class you need 1300-1400 HP, we expect the TS motor to make a little over 900, so if it does you add the oxide and we should be in the game.
A few motor details...9.200 deck, 6.185 rod, 3.300 stroke, 4.500 bore, 950+ lift cam, heads that flow 500+cfm....add all that together...you get 900hp....we hope!!

Monte Smith

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SURGEON GENERALS WARNINGrag Racing is highly addictive, and may impair your ability to make rational decisions.

[wedge542]

MONTE,500cfms,wow,wth a 4.500bore wouldnt the heads be a moved center type?what size valves would these need,i talked to koffels about a year ago about all the b1s flows and supporting factors[ie-valves,cam,intake,induction]looking for the most flow to support at least 1000hp without n2o,btw,these are some very nice people but they informed me 450cfm was about the limit for the b1 but they did not give much info on the moved center head,i ended up going wth the 572-13indys flowing 450cfms but have room for bigger valves and a .860lft cam to support 1000hp,i was very interested in the b1s every since i started wth mopars untill indy came along but if this 572 gets old my next might be a b1 headed baby mountain,but hope this will do for now.when will mm have you going?

[GTXMONTE]

The B1-TS is not a wedge, it is the canted valve Pro-Stock head that the Dodge boys ran a few years ago before the Mopar/Pontiac head. The Koffel's were referring to the moved centerline B-1 flowing 450(never seen one that good), that head has the ex valve moved over to make room for a 2.400 in. valve. The TS is kind of an odd ball piece, they don't make an intake for it, the best one has a 4.840 bore spacing(4.800 is stock) and it has it's own bolt pattern, so you don't see many TS motors.
The motor should be ready in a couple months, I hope. The intake is the big hold up, they don't make one and I have to run a cast one, so we are modifying a "Big Chief" intake, the port spacing is close, so this was the only choice.

Monte Smith

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SURGEON GENERALS WARNINGrag Racing is highly addictive, and may impair your ability to make rational decisions.

[GTXMONTE]

The B1-TS is not a wedge, it is the canted valve Pro-Stock head that the Dodge boys ran a few years ago before the Mopar/Pontiac head. The Koffel's were referring to the moved centerline B-1 flowing 450(never seen one that good), that head has the ex valve moved over to make room for a 2.400 in. valve. The TS is kind of an odd ball piece, they don't make an intake for it, the best one has a 4.840 bore spacing(4.800 is stock) and it has it's own bolt pattern, so you don't see many TS motors.
The motor should be ready in a couple months, I hope. The intake is the big hold up, they don't make one and I have to run a cast one, so we are modifying a "Big Chief" intake, the port spacing is close, so this was the only choice.

Monte Smith

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SURGEON GENERALS WARNINGrag Racing is highly addictive, and may impair your ability to make rational decisions.