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  #1  
Old 09-05-2001, 11:45 PM
Mr. Trans Am Mr. Trans Am is offline
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Angry Who else sees a rule change coming?

I say NASCAR is pissed that GM isn't winning all the races and will change the rules around by the start of next season. Might even before the end of the year. Mopar has NEVER been allowed to win for any strech by any sanctioning body. If the top 4 in each race was different makes and a GM won each time it would be cool. If a Mopar won you can forget it. "Parity" is mopar on the short stick. It will happen, it always does. Just look at what happened after all the money Mopar spent on neon for road racing(can't think of series name).
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  #2  
Old 09-06-2001, 11:01 AM
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Particularly with NASCAR it's just a matter of time before thet pull the reins in on the Mopars.
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  #3  
Old 09-06-2001, 12:06 PM
Mr. Trans Am Mr. Trans Am is offline
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tic toc tic toc
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  #4  
Old 09-06-2001, 02:28 PM
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Yeah, it so important for GM to be able to brag about it's Lumina Carlos winning races, I'm sure something will happen before long.
Once you realize they banned Chrysler for over a decade and a half, then allowed the competition to do what Chrysler asked to do, you better figure they probably won't hesitate much or long to screw us again.
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  #5  
Old 09-06-2001, 06:16 PM
c_95mopar360R/T c_95mopar360R/T is offline
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Angry

I didnt know that Chrysler was banned from NASCAR, Why?? I thought the reason they wasnt racing is because they couldn't run the HEMI anymore because thats all that was winning,and Chrysler decided to pull out of NASCAR..

If you think about it I thought NASCAR was supposed to be "STOCK CAR RACING" its who makes the faster car, and better engines, obvoiusly MOPAR ruled "STOCK CAR" in the '60's & early '70's,all these rules and regulations for the cars,except for safety ,everthing else is a bunch of horse s&%$!!!
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  #6  
Old 09-06-2001, 10:21 PM
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5th_Ave_Sleeper 5th_Ave_Sleeper is offline
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Cool The "New NASCAR"

Its not NASCAR anymore, its NAMFWDCTAPER now!

National
Association of
Modified
Front
Wheel
Drive
Cars
That
Are
Perfectly
Equal
Racing

Say that five times fast
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  #7  
Old 09-06-2001, 10:45 PM
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This is a vast simplification, but basically accurate. Mopar asked if they could use their fwd bodys, Nascar said no, they had to be built like as delivered,not rear drive axles in FWD's, or that would be "unfair". Then Mopar asked if they could use their 4 door bodies, Diplomat, LeBaron and such, and Nascar again said no, so when the Charger body got too old to qualify, and the Magnum just wasn't competitive , Mopar folded their tents. If not for Buddy Arrington and his 81-83 Imperials, there would have been nothing, then eventually, even he had to give it up. Meanwhile, shortly there after, Nascar then allowed the Lumina, which is a front wheel drive car, to compete, and most all of GM's entries were based on front wheel drivers from then on, while when Ford didn't want to run the T-Bird anymore, they allowed the Taurus which was both front wheel drive and a 4 door, to compete. Then finally after 15 years, Nascar allows Dodge to return. And GM gets to do commercials with Lumina-Carlos bragging about having the most victories over handicapped Fords. So while I enjoy that Dodge was finally allowed to return, and I'm happy they've won, I realize that what has gone on in the past, has shown that Nascar will happily put the screws to Chrysler Corp. and if Mopar does too well, they will most likely do it again. So enjoy the races, but take it with a grain of salt......
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  #8  
Old 09-06-2001, 11:16 PM
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5th_Ave_Sleeper 5th_Ave_Sleeper is offline
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Angry rice burner revival

I will stop following nascar if or when toyotas, nissans, mercedes........bla, bla, bla, yadda, yadda, yadda hit the tracks. its ok for the LeMans and Indy racing, but not nascar
maybe they should add another "A" to the acronym

National
Association of
>>American<<
Stock
CAr
Racing

my 2 cents worth
5th
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  #9  
Old 09-07-2001, 01:08 AM
beepbeepsrule beepbeepsrule is offline
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NASCAR certainly screwed the Dodge trucks over with those aero changes mid-summer (they gave Ford more down force and took some away from the Rams) ...
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  #10  
Old 09-07-2001, 09:11 AM
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c_95mopar360R/T, Chrysler was not banned from Winston Cup racing. After the factory quit supporting the series in the mid-70's, the Magnum and Cordoba simply weren't competitive because of their boxy styling. Richard Petty asked NASCAR to approve the Diplomat, but he was denied because the other teams felt that he had gotten already gotten a gift when the previous B-body approval had been extended beyond the normal two years just to keep him in a Mopar. In 1978, Petty switched to Chevrolet in an effort to remain competitive.

By 1986, the Cordoba/Mirada body would reach the age limit allowed by NASCAR, so even Buddy Arrington had to switch to Ford. Engine technology and lack of Hi-Po parts was also making the Mopars fall behind the Ford and GM camps, so it was becoming futile to compete. In mid-1985, he bought out Bill Elliott's old equipment, but continued to run a Mopar transmision in the Ford.

During the years of nearly going out of business, Chrysler did not attempt to have a model approved for Winston Cup, but after becoming solvent again, the guys at Mopar Performance, without corporate backing, submitted several models to NASCAR. The first was a 4-door, which was summarily refused since both Ford and GM had the correct size 2-doors in the showroom. In 1987, the LeBaron was submitted, but was again refused because it was too narrow. NASCAR said the length was no problem, but the LeBaron would have required a 4" increase in width to make it the same as Ford and GM. Since there was not full factory backing to twist Bill France's arm, the MP guys got the LeBaron approved for ARCA and kept their fingers in the sport through that venue.

Over the years, I wrote many letters to NASCAR and Mopar Performance about this subject. The information I gave you is what was told to me by these people. I have letters signed by Bill France Jr to that effect, so if it's not correct, it's because I was not told the truth. I was also a member of the Buddy Arrington fan club and corresponded with Joey Arrington regarding the rules and engine situation at the time. I also have letters from Maurice Petty confirming Arrington's opinions about engine design weaknesses. At my suggestion, Winston Cup Scene did a full article on the reasons for Chrysler's absence from the sport in the late 80's and their findings concurred with what I just related to you.
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  #11  
Old 09-07-2001, 09:35 AM
modracr41 modracr41 is offline
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Thanks Gary for the info. It seems that you, unlike several others that like to spout opinions here, know what you are talking about. Ma Mopar left Winston Cup for several reasons, and one of which was the money and investment required.
Thanks again for the real story. I'm sure that there are several others that appreciate it as well..................See ya at the track!
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  #12  
Old 09-07-2001, 10:09 AM
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5th_Ave_Sleeper 5th_Ave_Sleeper is offline
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I am happy to see that there are people out there that know the truth AND are willing to share it.
thanks modracr41, I really never understood why mopars faded out years ago.
5th
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  #13  
Old 09-07-2001, 06:04 PM
c_95mopar360R/T c_95mopar360R/T is offline
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Wink

Thanks Gary!!! I found that to be very informative, and interesting, I would have never known that would have happend, Thanks again..

Corey
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  #14  
Old 09-07-2001, 11:43 PM
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Some interesting opinions here, may I'll "spout" off some more. Whether you like them or not, Chrysler Corp. saw that the wave of the future, at least for cheap and middle class transportation, was and is, front wheel drive. So despite Nascar's loyalty and need for their racers to be RWD, Chrysler went ahead and started building FWD's, and it's a good thing, or there would be no Mopar today.
Despite this, Nascar was not willing to accomodate Chrysler at all.
Yet, when the original RWD Monte Carlo became obsolete, they didn't even hesitate to allow the Lumina, there was no hesitation at all! Sure would have been nice if Chrysler had ever been given any consideration like that. It's the same thing with the 4 doors, it was not allowed because neither Ford or Chevrolet were racing one. In fact, the words, "summarily refused ", pretty well sums up how Nascar has treated Mopar thru the years. But when Ford wanted to race that Taurus, Nascar sure didn't hesitate much to approve that, either. I guess it's a good thing that GM and Ford actually asked to race what they were building, or Mopar may still be unable to race, to this day! No, the word, banned, was not used, but just like the rules at my local stock car track, that limit cid to a .030 over 350 in street class, or banning any aluminum head, factory or not, in economy class, it effectively "bans" me and other local Mopar fans from building a small block or front wheel drive racer out of any Mopar, even though the word Banned, isn't even in the rulebook.. Yes, thru the late 70's and 80's, Chrysler didn't always have their act together, but if it was GM in the same position, you just know that Nascar would have helped them any way possible. So maybe I am, "spouting", but if anyone really thinks Nascar has ever cut Mopar much slack thru the years, I suggest you quit doing so many 12 ounce arm lifts. Yes, Mopar had some fault in it's falling out of Nascar, but Nascar sure didn't try too hard to keep them in. Oh well, hope you enjoy those bowtie bragging commercials!
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  #15  
Old 09-09-2001, 02:45 AM
Mr. Trans Am Mr. Trans Am is offline
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Well I'll sum it up plain and simply. Moparites are the minority, by FAR. If Mopars win all the time, people stay away in droves. If GM wins they hoot and hollar at the top of their lungs and continue to line up for tickets, merchandise, watch tv, etc. The occasional blue oval streak is tolerated to keep the 2nd biggest group pacified. The best Mopar can do in ANY, I mean ANY, racing effort is to win and wait for bullshit rules to come and work back to the top again. Repeat.
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  #16  
Old 09-09-2001, 03:16 AM
Sly Fox Sly Fox is offline
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Personally, I think NASCAR needs to make the teams go with the stock production body panels on their cars and actually make the cars look stock. The only thing that teams could have that the production cars don't have would be the front air dams and rear spoilers. Another idea is, NASCAR should pick the best features from each of the manufacture's cars and make one car out of all the features taken from each car. Then the teams use whatever brand of motor they want. The car would be a mixture of all the manufacture's designs. Then it would come down to who the best driver is and who has the best engine. All of the cars would be even. Then you wouldn't have to worry about a certain brand of car being allowed to make certain changes and so on. BUT, the manufacture's wouldn't go for that because they want to see their car in victory lane, not some funky looking car that is NASCAR's design.

All of the manufacture's complain all time because they are looking to have an advantage over everyone else. Manufactures are always saying: "Brand-X" says they are at a disadvantage because "Brands Y & Z" have a better design, so they need to either take away from "Brands Y & Z" or give something to "Brand-X" so they can compete. In reality, they are all full of it. They are all just trying to get an edge on the others until NASCAR catches on and says they have to change it again. Unfortunately, GM and NASCAR have been scratching each others backs for years. A majority of the motorsports fans that are out there are Chevy fans. So when these "Chevy" fans show up at a race, they want to see a Chevy win. If NASCAR doesn't at least let the Chevies have some kind of adavantage so they can win or finish well in every race, they would have Chevy NASCAR fans not showing up at the races. Ticket sales would go down and then NASCAR would loose money. NASCAR wants to keep selling those tickets, so they can keep those Chevy fans returning every year.

There are so many conspiracies in NASCAR than you can imagine. It's all about money. NASCAR probably doesn't really care who wins as long as the fans keep buying those tickets and so on. I remember Rusty Wallace making the statement that NASCAR has lost all concept of what the sport is really about. All Nacars sees is dollar signs anymore. NASCAR doesn't care who wins, just as long as the fans are happy with who wins and as long as they are making money. Unfortunately, Chevy has been scratching NASCAR's back for so long, that there isn't a crow bar big enough to pry those two apart.


Just opinion though,
Sly
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  #17  
Old 09-09-2001, 03:16 AM
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And there it is, that's putting it as plainly as possible. Thanks Mr Trans Am! You've put your finger on exactly the one little fear that has been in the back of my mind since it was announced that Mopar was finally returning to Nascar. But I will say this, things at GM the past few years, haven't been exactly hunky dory, either. Things from the ugliness and weirdness of the Aztec, to the CBS's story on the egg shell like body strength of the Cavalier, gas tank fires on 80's era Chevy trucks, etc, etc, are adding up, and not quite everyone in this nation, quite believes the statement,"What's good for GM is what's good for the country!", anymore. And personally, I can't see how GM's recent styling of their newest trucks and SUV's to look like sport shoes, is going to go over too well either. I'm sure the sustained GM bias of Nascar grates Ford and their fans, as much as it does us. And if something happened where GM was no longer able to back Nascar like they do, maybe Mopar and Ford may decide it's time for them to fold their cards too. We'll just have to see what happens, and I doubt the present system will change anytime soon. But as GM goes, so does Nascar. So if GM stumbles much more, we'll see. If both Ford and Mopar had the nerve to walk away, maybe things would change. Neither the Blue Oval or the Pentastar need Nascar anyway.
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  #18  
Old 09-09-2001, 03:50 AM
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I think NASCAR knows competition or "parity" between the makes is good for business. I, too, prefer "run what ya brung" attitude. But that philosophy is now a thing of the past. If NASCAR wants to keep rolling the dice with on-going rules changes, let 'um. You know what they say, "The House Never Loses"!
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  #19  
Old 09-09-2001, 06:20 AM
con383 con383 is offline
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Biggrin who else sees arule change coming

im not quite sure how the rules work in nascar but where i come from rule changes dont happen until the next season, if gm &ford cant make a car competitive enough then TUFF LUCK, as far as fans are concerned THINGS CHANGE, look at the people out there that buy these JAP CRAP.
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Old 09-09-2001, 08:19 AM
cudacarl cudacarl is offline
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I'm tired of them evening things up. Too many rule changes. I say make the cars more like the production and the best one wins. Thats what made the sport great to watch in the late 60's and early 70's. It forced the maufacturers to build better cars. If you want all the bodies to be common then the sport turns into a kind of half assed I.R.O.C serie. We already have that series why create another?
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  #21  
Old 09-10-2001, 02:00 PM
beepbeepsrule beepbeepsrule is offline
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Time was when rule changes went for an entire season. But in 1985 or so when the T-birds were running away from everbody the GM lobbyists went to work and got NASCROLET, er, NASCAR to let the Pontiac GrandPrix and Chevrolet MonteCarlo change their back windows, thus the "Aero-Coupe" body for each was born --- IN MID-SEASON. Unheard of until then I believe, and a BLATANT nod toward one brand(s) over the others. That is when I quit watching NASCAR.
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