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  #1  
Old 09-17-2001, 04:56 PM
jj9879 jj9879 is offline
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Default Quick Power to Beat Turbos

I need to know where the quickest, and most advantagous horesepower/torque upgrades can be found. I have trouble beating Mitsubishi 3000GTs(with the twin turbos) and the new Subaru WRXs and its bugging the hell out of be because I can't stand losing to v4 and v6 rice-mobiles. I'm looking at a couple of options right now and they are

1)replace my turbo mufflers with the least restricitve flowmasters

2)replace my exhaust manifolds with headers(TTI, Thorley, Hedman, Hooker can anynoe recommend a brand?)

3)replace my iron intake manifold and stock 4-barrell carb with a new manifold and carb(can anyone recommend a good carb/manifold combo)

I'm wondering which one of these mod packages would be the best. I race the quarter mile not the 1/8th. Thanks in advance for the help.

Here is my setup:
'70 Barracuda GranCoupe
383 4-barrell (stock carb+manifold)
Electronic Ignition
K&N Air Filter
Dual 2.5in Exhaust
Stock Iron Exhaust Manifolds
BrandX Turbo Mufflers
727 Tranny w/Shift kit
Stock stall converter
Cooper Cobra tires
3.23 sure-grip rear-end
Engine was rebuild 8k miles ago but no real performance parts were added
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  #2  
Old 09-17-2001, 05:40 PM
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curious curious is offline
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i d recoomend choice 2&3 and a muffler swap but something more performance geared than flowmaster. something like hooker or hedman or something whos gimick isnt just good sounds. sounds are important but i ve heard several people make complaints against the performance all though if your running something reallly restrictive you ll think the flowmasters are really helping. unfortunetly the biggest benifits will prolly be found in a torque converter or gear swap. but you wouldnt want to do that since part of your request was "quick".
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  #3  
Old 09-17-2001, 06:01 PM
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TT440 TT440 is offline
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Try a Performer RPM manifold and 750 carb. Slipping in a MP 484 cam would really wake it up too.
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  #4  
Old 09-17-2001, 06:49 PM
Moparjimbo Moparjimbo is offline
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Try better tires, your racing againts AWD cars! Also, please remember the 3000GT was also sold as a DODGE Stealth, I have 2 of them, please don't call them RICE! If the twin turbo cars have any modifications, like even exhaust, air filter, boost controller then they suddenly run high 12's. With turbo upgrades its easy to get into the 11's ON STREET TIRES due to the AWD. If this is the case, you will need ALOT more horsepower than you currently have!
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Old 09-17-2001, 09:17 PM
jj9879 jj9879 is offline
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Sorry about the rice thing. I'm dealing mostly with 3000GTs that run in the 13.4s around stock level. I figure with my current car I run near 13.7. But I haven't verified that. I thought about a cam and read that Hughes engine makes the best mopar cams but I think that might be a little more involved than what I want right now. As for the gears I don't want to go any steeper than 3.55s because I drive the car a good deal. The torque converter is something I'd like to do last and get a nice custom one so taht is out for right now. I've just got to find a way to beat these cars. Hehehe, racing will drive you insane.
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  #6  
Old 09-17-2001, 09:32 PM
Darn Dart Darn Dart is offline
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I think what you are needing is a NOS 125hp power shot nitrous kit and a set of sticky street tires. That should be worth almost a full second in the quarter. ( I just saw a Eagle Talon AWD turbo run a 7.77 @ 92mph in the 1/8 mile this past weekend, that would be a low 12 in the 1/4, and very hard to beat on the street with all 4 wheels digging!!)
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Old 09-17-2001, 10:01 PM
jj9879 jj9879 is offline
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I've been considering the NO2 route but am very concerned about toasting the shit out of my engine, the last thing I need is to blow some shit up with juice. I need to be absolutely sure that my engine/drivetrain can handle that extra boost. I am looking hard at the NO2 TopShot system as it is fairly concealed and that would be cool. Is there a downside to the topshot over the plate injection?
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Old 09-17-2001, 11:49 PM
dewme5 dewme5 is offline
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i have the "if you cant beat them, join them" just apply that mentality.

if you cant beat a twin turbo 3000gt.. maybe its becuase you need twin turbos !!!!! For me, it was the perfect fix. Sure nitrous is easier to put on, will give you any power number that you want. but you cant match the cool factor of twin turbos, or a big blower on top. And the turbos are always there, no expensive bottle refill. robs less power then any other forced air induction. and are quite easy to come by. if you can do any welding or fabrication, its easy going. can adapt easily to carbs..(holley's .. no problem) So, bust out the mig welder, and get to creating all the boost that you want.!! (you can even keep your stock exhaust manifolds for use!!)

really, if you have any fabrication skills.... you can do this easy. then it's just left to some tuning.
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  #9  
Old 09-17-2001, 11:56 PM
Darn Dart Darn Dart is offline
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I've run more bottles of nitrous through my old 340 Demon than I care to count. Just make sure to retard the timing, make sure you have enough fuel(pressure, volume) and a good ignition and let her buck. My 340 Demon was bone stock, including cast pistons and It never missed a beat. And I sent more than one big block Chevelle owner home scratching his head!
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  #10  
Old 09-18-2001, 01:01 AM
jj9879 jj9879 is offline
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I'm lacking in the fabrication skills unfortunately. I don't have a welder or access to a pal with one, and I have never used anything more fab-oriented than a solder gun. So if I needed TTs I'd probably have to have someone do it for me, which would probably cost plenty. I wouldn't mind a blower, but when I look through summit and jegs they only seem to have blowers for chevy stuff. If there is a good mopar blower maker out there, that would be nice, although probably expensive. Plus a blower seems more muscle car oriented, and I heard that they make absolutely gobs of horsepower. What all would I need to blow a 383?
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Old 09-18-2001, 01:03 AM
jj9879 jj9879 is offline
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What HP level were you using on your Demon? And did you ever have any problems? Its amazing how some people define 'no problems ever' as 'yeah so I blew a head gasket once, I needed to do my head gaskets anyways'. If you didn't have any problem with NO2 on a bone stock 340, I would definately considering running some through my 383, just for the few races when I really need it.
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  #12  
Old 09-18-2001, 01:58 AM
DartGT66 DartGT66 is offline
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I agree with many above; mufflers do not help alot. In a local dynotest 3" flowmasters gave 5 hp average and 4 hp max power more than 2.5" daytona turbos in a 400 hp engine. Those cars with all the new technology run really hard and if they have been tweaked, even harder. Changing the exhaust manifolds to headers, a slightly bigger and more modern cam and the intake & carb should help some. MAybe even pulling the heads and template porting & checking the CR and milling the heads if needed to get it up should help you some. I think with those mods you should be able to fight against stock 4 wd turbo cars, of course you need good tires too.
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  #13  
Old 09-18-2001, 07:36 AM
Darn Dart Darn Dart is offline
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I used a NOS 125hp powershot, and a Carter street/strip mechanical fuel pump to feed both the carb and nitrous. My Demon had over 100,000 miles on it and I never replaced the head gaskets. Once you go over about 125hp system is when you start having trouble.
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  #14  
Old 09-18-2001, 08:56 AM
Dr. Righteous Dr. Righteous is offline
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Exclamation NOBODY mentioned gears!

A couple things to keep in mind; A 383 is a relatively short stroke engine. Actually a 360 has a longer stroke and it is a small block. A 383 doesn't produce the gobs of low end torque in a stock configuration. What to do?? Don't disress too much. A 383 is extremely potent on top end so a gear change will really wake up a mostly stock car. If you don't change your cam to a longer duration one you can stick with your stock torque converter.
The taller gear ratio will get your engine up to the RPM level where it starts to come to life and it will make a huge difference in the quarter mile. Go with a 3:91 gears for your combo and see the difference without a bottle of NOS.
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  #15  
Old 09-18-2001, 09:51 AM
beepbeepsrule beepbeepsrule is offline
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Listen to Dr. R! Going from a 3.23 to a 4.10 netted me 4 tenths in the 1/4 with a 383 Charger automatic car, already had an intake with a Holley 750. Going to headers got me another 2 tenths. All of this was with a stock magnum cam. Going to a .484/284 or similar grind would have netted another 2 tenths or so. The 383's like RPM, they can be kind of sleepy until 3000 rpm or so. My recommendations in this order are (try one at a time): 1.)Gears (go with 3.91 or 4.10 or don't change them at all). 2.)Headers. 3.)Intake w/Holley750. 4.) True performance mufflers.

If you don't want to do the gears then you need to transplant in a 440 because even a 3.55 will make a 383 work pretty hard. 440's can get you down into the 13's with stock gearing in a heavy car but a 383 can't.

Use a 4.10 with taller tires, 3.91 with closer to stock height tires.
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  #16  
Old 09-18-2001, 10:29 PM
dewme5 dewme5 is offline
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i still say turbos.. they netted me almost 3 full seconds! and yes. i blew 2 head gaskets. both were me getting a little to aggressive with the timing. But i bet i have less money in head gaskets and turbos than anybody has in nitrous bottle refills alone!! at $3.50 a pound, that adds up pretty quick.
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  #17  
Old 09-18-2001, 10:58 PM
jj9879 jj9879 is offline
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You got 3seconds form Turbos???? That is a load of time in anyone's book. Are there any downsides? I heard that turbos increase engine bay heat, wear out quickly, and add lots of wear and tear on the engine because they are on all the time. What would be the advantages of TTs over a blower/supercharger?
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  #18  
Old 09-19-2001, 01:26 PM
dewme5 dewme5 is offline
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yes.. they do add underhood heat. but that isnt a big deal if you spend the extra couple of dollars for some headder wrap (which for turbos also helps performance) and turbo blankets or shields.

downsides... just the learning curve, and tuning again for the top end.

they dont wear out quickly... if you take care of them. they get HOT, that's just part of it, and 90% of the cooling, takes place from oil, which also lubes them. so if you run them hard, get the turbos real hot, and then just shut off the motor. you will kill it. the impeller is still spinning at close to 100,000 rpm, and you just cut off the oil supply and the cooling supply. that is what kills a turbo. that, and sucking somthing into to. !! always use an air filter!!!!

advantage of turbos over blower and superchager. more bang ffor the buck. they dont rob crank horsepower. more options of where to mount them, will fit under the hood.

the turbos arent always on. they are pretty much load dependent. i can run at 5000 rpm, and not be in boost at all. But, if i am at an idle, and jam on the throttle. before i hit 2000rpm, i am already at at least 6psi and climbing. the boost comes on when you want it! a blower comes on early, a supercharger comes on later, and a turbo comes on when you want it to.

I have less than $500 into my system. but i did fabrication myself. and... if i blow up a turbo, or otherwise just break one. I'm not that worried. I just go to the junk yard and pick another one up. Sure. I can buy a new kit, and pay alot for my turbos.. but with some research, it's easy to find what you need, and depending on where you are at, junk yard turbos cost between $35 and $150. I paid $75 each for mine.

Oh yeah.. i cant throw a belt in the middle of a run either!
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Old 09-19-2001, 02:04 PM
ChargerMD ChargerMD is offline
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Default turbos

What kind of turbo's are you running? Out of what kind of vehicle did you rob them? How much boost? How much CR?
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Old 09-19-2001, 02:23 PM
jj9879 jj9879 is offline
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Hmmm the turbos sound pretty attractive except for the self fabrication part(for me anyways). The only problem is that the ONE junkyard around here sucks very very much. I doubt they have anything that has a turbo on it, let alone finding two similar turbos in working condition. Is there anywhere I c ould pick up a pair of used turbos cheap?
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Old 09-19-2001, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moparjimbo
Try better tires, your racing againts AWD cars! Also, please remember the 3000GT was also sold as a DODGE Stealth, I have 2 of them, please don't call them RICE! If the twin turbo cars have any modifications, like even exhaust, air filter, boost controller then they suddenly run high 12's. With turbo upgrades its easy to get into the 11's ON STREET TIRES due to the AWD. If this is the case, you will need ALOT more horsepower than you currently have!

They are still rice, just fast rice burners. Even though you Stealth has a Doge name on it it is still rice beacause underneth that name it is all mitsubishi.
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  #22  
Old 09-19-2001, 06:00 PM
Moparjimbo Moparjimbo is offline
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I know, but I still cling to the fact that it still says Dodge on it!

I promise to get rid of them when the new 5.7L HEMI RWD and AWD LX cars come out in 2003/2004.
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  #23  
Old 09-19-2001, 08:06 PM
dewme5 dewme5 is offline
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The turbos that i have are Garrett T-03's with .63 exhaust ratio that were both taken off of 1984 Mercury 2.3L XR-7's with a manual trans. But there are quite a few cars with the same Turbos xr-7's, thunderbirds, and merkur's. in the mid 80's with 2.3L's and manuals. the automatic cars come with a .48 ratio. those are some of the easily available ones. what each car is going to need, is going to be different.... so a little research will go along way. But, with twin .63 a/r garrets, and a 360, I have enough for full boost (12 psi in my case) all the way to 6000 rpm. if you want a single turbo. you are going to need something off of a diesel. (dodge hx-35 will support about 700 hp on its own. and the hx40 will go for more)

my compression ratio is 9.0:1 and i am running 12 pounds of boost. I have popped 2 head gaskest so far, but that was me being to aggressive wiht the timing.

knowing what turbo (s) you want, you can go to ebay and find them. but sure you will pay a little more. there are also some big turbo places that will help you design a system, and sell you a turbo. so.. do a little research...

I highly suggest picking up one of the following books "turbochargers" by hugh macinnes or "maximum boost" by corky bell. really.. get both. then read them.. yeah.. that is the tricky part. but you will pick up so much information that you wont believe it. you will be able to design your own system! also.. if you go to yahoo.com, and then go to the groups section, and then look up "jyturbo" those guys can anwser any question you have. but check the history.. it's all been answered before.
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  #24  
Old 09-19-2001, 11:19 PM
Doug Wilson Doug Wilson is offline
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Default tURBOS

I think you are looking at a bunch of money to beat those 12 second Oriental, expensive cars.
Confucious say: "Speed costs money - how fast do you want to go??"
If you are going to put pressurized air in it, you REALLY need to get learned up on it.
My vote is: 1) Nitrous 2) Gears 3) Converter

GOD BLESS AMERICA
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  #25  
Old 09-20-2001, 08:52 AM
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A properly designed turbo system should be much more reliable than a comparable horsepower N/A system, because all the parts are less radical, and the rpm can be way lower.

We have been running for 14 years on the same engine (over 30K miles) and have not had a repair in the last 10 years, except for exhaust manifold gaskets, and a turbo that got taken out because a Fram oil filter disintegrated and plugged the oil line. We are currently at 14 psi, so the engine is making very good power.

Heat can be an issue, but we now have it so the car will idle in 100 degree heat without going over 200 degrees. Under hood temp is controlled with insulation and air movement. Knowing what I do now, I would not build another street turbo without using an engine driven fan. We ran electrics for many years, but there are too many downsides to using them.

The pic is of our current setup. 14 psi, intercooled, EFI, air cleaners and oil cooler are in the wheelwells.

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  #26  
Old 09-20-2001, 12:32 PM
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I guess I'm a little late for suggesting turbos.

I didn't do it the first time because I thought most folks were sick of hearing me talk about them.

I went a little fancy with the TT440 and had custom turbos and cam built. It wasn't really necessary, but I had the cash at the time.
If you include the entire engine rebuild and custom goodies, I've got less than $2800 in my setup. The power is quite impressive and I'm getting good mileage too.

As soon as a job comes around again, I'll drop twins on the '87 Grand Fury cop car for less than $400.
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Old 09-20-2001, 02:29 PM
dewme5 dewme5 is offline
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come on tt440.. sick of hearing about turbos... never!!!

I'm just hoping that i win the Hemi that one of the magazines is giving away. Seems that my 4 years old boy is rather upset that i dont have a hemi cuda. and of course.. there will be twins on that too!!! But honestly.. i am already saving my pennies towards a TT426
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