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  #1  
Old 09-23-2001, 05:58 PM
70Challenger R/T S.E. 383 70Challenger R/T S.E. 383 is offline
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Default A cheap way to make a 496??

Hi, is there a cheap(cheaper than kits from Muscle Motors,Hughes,etc) way to make a 496?
Also, which is more cost effective with a street/strip 440 e-body, strokin to 496, or 440 with roller cam?

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 09-23-2001, 06:03 PM
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dusterbd dusterbd is offline
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well, a few of my fathers sayings come to mind:
there is no substitute for cubic inches
and
speed costs money: how fast can you afford to go.
so, id say, stroke it, but be ready to pony up the bucks for the good parts. sorry i cant help more.
mike
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  #3  
Old 09-23-2001, 07:21 PM
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Lee Pritchard Lee Pritchard is offline
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I talked to a crank shaft shop about this very thing..he said 600.00 for a 4.150 welding stroker with your 440 crank core... Ross pistion 4.375 bore can be had for 499.00 to 549.00... You can use stock rods remaned with arp bolts.... Check with your local mech shop for mech prices ,boring ect.... I did and it looks like muscle motors price is very close and there kit includes new rods, rings, bearing and all mech work done but for the boring the motor....Lee...
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  #4  
Old 09-23-2001, 09:28 PM
JERICOGTX JERICOGTX is offline
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Muscle Motors kit uses a MP 4.150 crank. At 1100 bucks you could go with Eagles 4.150 crank for $800. IMO you get what you pay for. Better to spend the extra money now on a good short block with a good crank, rods and pistons. That way if you decide to install aftermarket heads in the future and what to build more HP the bottom end will need nothing. The choice is yours.
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  #5  
Old 09-24-2001, 02:05 AM
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personally I dont like strokers,and you ask why of course so Ill tell you,how much extra do you spend for 56 ci?(496-440=56)$1000-$1800(Im being conservative) usually and how much torque and hp do you gain?50-100 usually and it gets worse mileage and has worse than stock rod angles although still acceptable,personally Id beef up my bottom end a little and run a 150hp shot of N20 and kick a strokers butt for way less,also I wouldnt have as much constant stress on my bottom end as you only use N2O occasionally,youll get better mileage and a replacement crank,rod, pistons are less expensive by far.Why be afraid of N2O?its only more oxygen and fuel and when done correctly will NEVER hurt the motor,my last 440 had 4 yrs and almost 40K on it when I sold it,just my opinion......PRO...
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  #6  
Old 09-24-2001, 04:31 AM
70Challenger R/T S.E. 383 70Challenger R/T S.E. 383 is offline
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Well, that's why I asked which is more cost effective, stroking or going to a roller cam. 56 cubes for $2000 sounded a bit like a rip off to me too.
I read something about offset grinding a 4.15 stroke crank to 4.36 I think and that ended up with about 518 cubes if I remember correctly. How much would this cost? Who offset grinds cranks? What rods could I use? Pistons?
Thanks
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  #7  
Old 09-24-2001, 06:00 AM
DartGT66 DartGT66 is offline
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Almost any machine shop should be able to offset grind the crank to chevy BB pin size, then you use chevy BB rods and propably custom pistons. Building a low buck stroker isn't possible, about the cheapest way is to buy an Eagle crank and use stock 400 pistons with a 440 block & 440 rods. You need serious heads to support the strokers added displacement, if you don't have them you will not gain a lot of power but the power comes out at lower rpm and the torque will increase quite a lot. The most cost effective way to get power is good cylinder heads, when you have them you have got a base that you can build on anything you want later. A roller cam swap for a mopar BB costs well over 1000$ if converting from a stock hydraulic, and I think that is not very cost effective. Unless your cam is so big that you absolutely need a roller. When I switched to a roller, I had a MP 296/.557 cam and I replaced it with a Comp Cams 308R that had around 260 degrees at .050" and .575" lift. Didn't pick any performance with that swap.
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  #8  
Old 09-24-2001, 11:18 AM
mr_340 mr_340 is offline
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Default Low Buck 498

I think a relatively low buck approach would be a 440 block, 4.15" stroke crank, 440 rods, and +.030" 400 pistons. The low compression flat top 400 pistons have around a 1.80" compression height/distance. This should yield around zero deck height with the stroker crank. The high CR 440 pistons had a compression height of around 2.00" or so. Valve notches may need to be added to the pistons.
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  #9  
Old 09-24-2001, 01:39 PM
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Lee Pritchard Lee Pritchard is offline
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How do you make a 3620 pound car like my 63 belvedere go 9.60s with out N20...... i'll tell you it's called stroker.... I also have a 70 roadrunner that weights in at 3900 and runs 355 gear no stall convertor with a 493, it runs 7.40s in the 1/8 at 94 mph and i get 15 to 16 mpg easy in town... So as you can see i like stroker motors.... but i'm going to try my 440 dart with N20 .....who knows i might like it, we will see...... But i have to say there is NOTHING like spanking a N20 powered big block chevy with an all motor mopar !!!!
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  #10  
Old 09-24-2001, 06:34 PM
451boy 451boy is offline
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Low deck strokers are much cheaper to make than RB based strokers since you can use a 440 crank. A 451 can be made very cheaply using a cast 440 crank plus KB cast pistons. If you want more reliability than that then go with forged pistons and a forged crank.

A low deck 470 is still a fairly inexpensive motor. It uses a 440 crank offset ground to 3.90. You'll need the correct rods and pistons, but they are readily available. Put some Edelbrock heads on it an it will make 550 hp. (at least mine did)
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  #11  
Old 09-24-2001, 11:07 PM
Doug Wilson Doug Wilson is offline
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Default 496?

Fellas.... I hate to tell you this,... but, .... it's not N2O .... it's NO2 ...that is, 1 atom of Nitrogen and 2 atoms of Oxygen for the Nitrous molecule. N2O would immediately put all the fires out. Now everybody's gonna be mad at me ... poor me - that's just Doug. GOD BLESS AMERICA
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  #12  
Old 09-25-2001, 01:23 AM
DartGT66 DartGT66 is offline
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Lee, I think you have to use the same way as me putting my 3370 leaf springed pump gas streeter in to 10.0's without NO2. I like strokers too, but you must have cylinder heads that can support the displacement. If the heads are already limiting the performance with less cubic inches, you will not make much more power with a stroker.
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  #13  
Old 09-25-2001, 05:45 AM
Magnum440 Magnum440 is offline
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Default Strokers-BOttom-End

My heads will support a 500"(493) stroker RB. But I am concerned about how much abuse the 2 bolt mains can reliably take. Question: Is it practical to build this motor with the idea of repeated 1/4 mile trips w/out the mains "walking" and causing havoc/failure?? I know there the added stroke puts added pressure(pounding) on the bottom end. Can it live?
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  #14  
Old 09-25-2001, 06:25 AM
DartGT66 DartGT66 is offline
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With stock main caps and ARP studs the mains start to walk at around over 600 hp. This isn't stroke related, it depends on the power the engine makes. Our '451' has had the caps walking for five years and my 493 had even way more serious cap walk, but in the 4 years I drove with it, it never broke there. You can get more life out of the stock block if using aluminum main caps & aluminum rods. A way better solution on my opinion though is a new cross bolted block. But if you aren't going over600 hp you should have no problem with the steel parts.
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  #15  
Old 09-25-2001, 06:42 AM
Magnum440 Magnum440 is offline
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Default Mega-Block?

Not to quible, but you said your 493 DID exibit more walking--so, the physics of a longer stroke WOULD be harder on the mains, then would'nt it? I also understand how horsepower plays into the equation. Well, I want 750 hp minimum! So, I take it, I have no choice but to lay out the bucks for the mega-block, right?
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  #16  
Old 09-25-2001, 08:16 AM
DartGT66 DartGT66 is offline
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The 493 made more power than the 451 which made 649 in the dyno. With 750 hp I would definitely go stroker and the mega, indy or kb block. Must have some pretty serious stuff elswhere too. My current stroker with Indy 440-1 heads made 780 hp on pump gas and through mufflers in the dyno.
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  #17  
Old 09-25-2001, 08:40 AM
Magnum440 Magnum440 is offline
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I can get 110 octane for $3.39 a gal but if i could obtain my 750+ hp on a 50/50 mix that would be OK, too! I think i'll take your advice and forget about even trying to stroke a stock 2 bolt block. My B1-B/S heads fully ported and pollished wont equal your 440-1s but may be close enuff to get my 750 hp, I hope.
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  #18  
Old 09-25-2001, 10:39 AM
karfixer karfixer is offline
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Question

N2O=Nitrous Oxide, 33% Oxygen
Normal Earth Atmosphere=20-21% Oxygen
NO2,NO3,Ect=Nitrides of Oxygen=Nasty photochemical pollution, often referred to as NOx
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  #19  
Old 09-25-2001, 03:07 PM
Doug Wilson Doug Wilson is offline
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Default nitrous

Just wanted to check to see if anyone was paying attention. Actually, I was wr..wr...wr.... I wasn't right. Thank you, Karfixer!
...this confession from ......Doug GOD BLESS AMERICA
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