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#1
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Edelbrock says don't use Performance intake gasket
This directed to any 440 techs with experience on using the Performer intake manifold on street vehicles.
I just received a new Edelbrock Performer 440 from Jegs, along with a Fel-Pro performance intake gasket set. I ordered the Performance gasket because it blocks the cross over passage and because the tin bowl gasket has thin fiber gaskets on the head and intake gasket surfaces with the tin gasket sandwiched in between. Seemed like this set up would be less likely to leak (one of the reasons for changing manifolds) and block the heat crossover as well. However Edelbrock's literature included with the new manifold says not to use performance gaskets on this manifold for street use. This is definitely street use (motor home), however it is a fresh .030 over 440 with Comp RV Cam, dual exhaust without converters, no EGR, and a 795 cfm Quadrajet carb. Really just a no nonsence engine, much like a street rod engine except for the cam difference. Fel-Pro gaskets really have served me well the last 25+ years, can anyone tell me why this performance gasket set would be disclaimed by Edelbrock for street use....seems like it should be the other way around if anything ?? Is anyone using the Performance gaskets with the Performer on the street ..if so how is the crossover block holding up etc. ? Any gasket deterioration, tin or fiber, that you know of... and how long has the engine been on the street Any help on this would appreciated, Thanks Stan M. ...dba Stan's Customs Thanks Stan M., dba Stan's Customs |
#2
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Forget that BS. They just dont want you crying to them that their manifold doesnt work well cold. Everyone knows a warm manifold resists fuel "condensation" (the cold morning blues..) and a crossover warms the manifold faster than none. I think on a motorhome, you would not want a crossover, as it gets pretty warm in there plenty fast. Suit yourself.
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#3
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I'm running a blocked heat riser on my Performer 440. No problems.
Well... I dod have a problem with the intake gasket letting oil get sucked into the intake runners, but it did that on the last gasket. I put in the blocked heat riser (tin only) and it got a little better but I'm still letting a little oil get by until everything's up to temp. I'm sure it's not the intake's fault. Just me and my fat fingers. |
#4
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Thanks for your input PISHTA, my thoughts too......I should have included their disclaimer in my first post (Edelbrocks). They say quote... GASKETS AND SEALANT CAUTION: Do not use performance or competitition type intake gaskets for street application. Due to material deterioration under street driving conditions, internal leakage or both vacuum and oil may occur...end quote. The only thing that I can imagine would aluminum and cast iron expansion and contraction rates being so dissimilar that it could cause a problem. However that should be be more pronounced on performance apps than street, seems like to me. I have heard of Aluminum intakes cracking due to heat from crossover passages on Performance Olds 442's and the like, but never gasket deterioration. I have not tried this exact combo on a 440, maybe there is something to the tin gasket etc. that I'm not taking into account. There is a great amount of heat generated by the crossover...which in my opinion would be easier on the intake if disabled, despite being cooler natured during warm up.
Fel- Pro makes a fine product and I find it hard to believe they would make gasket...label it performance..and it be more likely to leak than OEM gaskets as Edelbrock suggest. I just can't see the reason for the disclaimer. I really don't like tin gaskets of any kind. Head gaskets, intake or anything else. Tin seems less durable than the Permatorque head gasket for instance. A leaking intake is the cause of this intake and gasket combo change in the first place. However if we want to block the crossover to protect the manifold, we must use a performance gasket they don't like. Parr for the course.... Really would like to know if anyone has used this exact combo with no complications. I suspect it would work fine.....however Edelbrock having Injun Ears and all you'd think they would know more than me...? What do you think??? Thanks again, Stan M. |
#5
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Thanks TT440...Did you use the Performance gasket with the blocked heat crossover and just delete the fiber gaskets? This engine was taking in a little engine oil as well, which of course is also a vacuum leak.
Thanks Stan |
#6
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What.... no 440 owners other than TT440 ??.......surely someone has a street driven 440 with a Performer intake, using a blocked crossover type performance gasket.....C'mon guys, someone lend me a hand........Fel-Pro doesn't have a tech line..besides I'd rather have information based on first hand experience like TT440....All input much appreciated Thanks Stan
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#7
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YAnno... I've had that intake on a 440 since 1990. It's been off and on several times and only started the leaking bit a few months ago.
Most of the time, I'd pull off the gasket, clean off the pookie with a wire wheel, and reuse it. Kinda sad that it didn't start leaking until I went with a new gasket. That's when I swapped it with the block-off piece. Now I need to get off my butt and reseal it. |
#8
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Stan I will give you my first hand experience. I ran my car both ways ,It ran great with the crossover snappy around town.But it fell on its face with the block off. I know with the block off it will make more horsepower . But if you drive around town your average rpm range is from idle to say about 4000.At those rpm,s the crossover helps keep the fuel vaporized. I am aware that with the cooler intake charge you need to rejet, but since my car was already rich I thought the block off would be perfect but I was wrong. For me to run that on the street I would have to jet really rich, bad for gas mpg. And you would still have the lengthy cold start up blues. I went back to the crossover gaskets And my snappiness returned and nice clean plugs.MY best time with my car 7.142 in th1/8 mile @98mph. and thats with the crossover. My call is sreet driven go with the crossover .Track only no cross over.But hey those gaskets are cheap try them both, see what you like. I enjoy the expermentation myself.Sport!
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#9
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The trade off is that the driveability suffers a little bit when the engine is cold. I have the crossover on my 440 blocked and I have to admit that it's a little cold blooded. Once the engine gets up to temp it's fine.
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#10
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Many thanks TT440, PISHTA, SPORT and AMOPARGUY for your response. I guess this thread has about run its course so its time to make a choice.
Because of the extreme heat generated by motor homes on the highway, due partly to how hard they have to work and partly to dog house ventilation characteristics, I believe that the crossover must be blocked. This is to protect the aluminum manifold from cracking during under prolonged operation on 100+ degree days, which are common here in Texas. The real issue, however, is Edelbrock's disclaimer regarding the use of PERFORMANCE GASKETS with their aluminum Performer manifolds....They indicate leakage due to "Deterioration" may occur if PERFORMANCE GASKETS are used for street applications. The only blocked crossover gasket I am aware of is a PERFORMANCE GASKET......specifically Fel- Pro 1215 in their "Performance line". It incorporates fiber gaskets with the bowl gasket to help seal the intake. I suppose their (Edelbrock's) "deteioration disclaimer " is in regard to the " fiber portion" of this gasket set.........I guess every one uses silicone to seal the metal bowl gasket and discards the fiber portions in the PERFORMANCE GASKET set since no reference has been made in regard them at all........ Or... there is a blocked crossover gasket gasket option I am not aware of.....Or... most use an OEM steel gasket and fabricate their own crossover block. Hence the confusion.......And the inquiry about any "Gasket Deteioration " using a Performer manifold with a PERFORMANCE GASKET incorporating a blocked crossover for street use.....Not whether or not to block the crossover , a rabbit trail which this thread has wandered off on...and one which is open to much conjecture, all of which are probably right, depending on the individual application. This issue is still unclear to me. However since I don't like pukey and tin much, ( we have already have had a leak with that arrangement), I will probably use the PERFORMANCE GASKET including the fiber gaskets, despite Edelbrock's disclaimer, and rely on my experience with Fel-Pro as great product under many adverse conditions. Of course that might change if anyone has had a PERFORMANCE GASKET (the fiber portion) deteiorate or... the metal portion burn out, using the Edelbrock Performer manifold.(street use) Again many thanks to all for your input, it is much appreciated. Stan Mayfield....dba Stan's Customs |
#11
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..............and of course we are still talking about a 440...Stan
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#12
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I've got a street/strip 440 with an edelbrock intake and the felpro 1215 blocked crossover pan tin only. I did not use the paper gaskets because I couldn't get the damn intake on right with them installed around the tin. I simply coated the tin around each port with a light application of PermaSeal Blue RTV.
Been working fine for me now for 6 months without any leaks in vacuum or oil. I live in Texas so the cold issues don't bother me at all. I don't have a choke on my Speed Demon either and don't have any problem starting it. Good luck... |
#13
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Hey thanks TUFFBIRD... sounds good. I'm pleased to hear that the crossover hasn't burned thru on the 1215 gasket and that it will seal without the paper gaskets. It looks the same as the OEM tin gasket but anything I leave to chance usually screws up.I haven't tried to mount this manifold with the paper gaskets yet, so I don't know if it will give me the same allignment problems yours did or not. Much obliged for taking time to let me know how yours worked , I'm pleased to hear all works well...even without the paper gaskets. Chances are I will run into the same problem you had and at least I'll know I'm not the only one with the difficulty.
Again Thanks....... Stan |
#14
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Stans Customs, I had to laugh I went down the rabbit trail myself.I reread your first post and missed your main point ,the first time. After reading several posts after the first, I lost focus and went on the rabbit hunt! I too just use the sealer, but I use the permatex 2Form A gasket sealant. I also have trouble with intake fit useing both fiber gaskets. The sealant is gasoline resistent, while I think the silicone isnt. If you want to use the fiber gasket for a good seal mabe you can use the sealant on the head side of the gasket and the1 fiber seal on the intake side of the gaskets. That way there will be no fiber gasket the exhaust gases can burn through.The sealent goes on real thin so it will be really hard to burn through. I have never used the fiber gaskets so I know of and never have heard of any burn through problems. I also have never had any burn through problems with sealant ,but have had leak problems without it. Also this sealant also stays soft so its easy to remove. Hold on ,ther goes a rabbit ,I think your blocked crossover will be fine for your motorhome and a good idea especially in Texas! Sport!!
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#15
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Roger Sport and thanks.....Looks like the fiber gaskets have been a problem for many who try to use them....Was your application with a cast iron or aluminum intake? We also use Permatex sealant for some apps, especially water sealing gaskets. water pumps, thermostats and the like..unbeatable . I have always used high temp silicone for intakes etc...seems like manufacturers sometimes include a little with their gasket or specify same with their instructions. Permatex was a favorite of my Father's, (old school garaqge owner in Abilene, Tx.)...So I still use it a lot in my business and may just try it on this intake.
We are trying to find a complicated heating problem and I want to eliminate any chance of a highway speed vac leak potential, which we believe has been a factor with another manifold.....hence the inquiry regarding any gasket sealing problems. Looks like we caught that Rabbit...Thanks for not dropping out of the chase, all help is really appreciated. Stan... |
#16
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Stan ,The intakes were all aluminum and I have also used the high temp silicone with similer success. Sport
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#17
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Roger Sport and Thanks again....Stan
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