Chrysler/DC going rwd in everything

[PRO]

Ive heard it from 2 sources that are inside,its on the board for every mopar to be rwd,no details no time frame but Ive been assured by these people before and they havent let me down yet,if it happens I think I will have died and gone to heaven.Think about it,what Daimler cars arent rwd?.........PRO......

[Rattlebox]

Do you work at Western Slope Chrysler or something?

[MoparRam]

How is all of DC's cars not being RWD a pro?

RWD is so much more fun...

Besides, in my opinion the 300M and LHS should have been RWD to begin with.

[Markcuda]

Hi Pro

I want what your buddys are smoking

[TravisC]

Originally posted by Markcuda
Hi Pro

I want what your buddys are smoking

haha, i agree. I also heard that motorcycles are going front wheel drive

[Maxwedge]

Not only should the 300M haave been RWD BUT it should have had a tranny that could deal with some Horse power..like all the newer autos..they SUCK IMHO........
I wish the R/T trucks had a real(non Toyota) stick in them...
MW

[PRO]

I dont work at WS chry,(hah!!)I own my own Hi performance shop here.rattlebox:rwd is the ONLY fun.Markcuda and travisC,time will tell and actually there are 2wd motorcycles(not that I care).Maxwedge:Since 99 the 300M trans(same in Prowler,42LE) has been updated,My brothers 12 sec prowler has not experienced any probs in 25K,and by the way the only thing I smoke is chevies!!!!!!......PRO.....

[Tim Keith]

I heard that the upcoming Mopar small cars will be outsourced to Mitsubishi. Plans to build anything bigger than the Neon as a RWD platform would certainly give the North American built D-C products a radically different market profile than any other car company. Couldn't hurt, D-C cars rank well with J.D. Power, but they're not market leaders even though there isn't that much difference anymore between brand A and brand B. The Ram pickup took the risk that some would like the product, that others would hate it, it was the right choice to be different.

[Stoga]

This all sounds good, despite the fwd Mopars I've had, I would look forward to being able to buy new RWD Mopars again, EXCEPT for ONE REASON. If the new RWD Chrysler products have all Daimler sourced drivetrains, they can forget about me buying one. Some of the rumors I've been reading about switching Chrysler back to mostly RWD have sounded good, but they better not toss the Mopar drivetrain pieces in the dumpster. I really don't want a Mercedes Chrysler any more than I ever wanted a Mitsubishi Chrysler or even a Simca Chrysler. If the guys in Germany can't figure that out, they can count me out too. I can easily just drive what I already have, or as much as it pains me to say it, buy new elsewhere, if I absolutely have to.

[Canuck Dart]

Lessee - the last 3 new vehicle we have owned ...
1991 PLYMOUTH Sundance
1997 PLYMOUTH Voyager Minivan
2000 Neon

All good cars - all FWD. I prefer the FWD thing for plowing thru snow filled streets & icy roads. Once you get used to the torque-steer phenomenum, they really are safer. (at least in our driving conditions)

I think it would be a step backwards.

For performance cars however - RWD is the only way to go in my mind.

[Stoga]

Canuck Dart brings up a good point, while a lot of folks want rwd, many folks have been buying FWD Mopars since 81, and have been very happy with them. It would be silly for Daimler to toss this part of the market that Chrysler invested over 20 years in. I betcha GM would be happy to sell former Mopar folks, Cavaliers, and Lumina APVs, yuck!!!! I've been very happy with my 2000 Grand Caravan, and other Mopar fwds. They carry Mopar and are as profitable, if not more so, than the 4 door Valiant/Darts and slant six and 318 powered B bodies, were in the past. Also, you can't beat them in the snow or mud either, unless you have a four wheel drive. And a 4 wheel drive will never get that kind of gas economy. Let's not toss the baby out with the bath water. They need to compete for the whole market, just not one part or the other.

[Tim Keith]

I did not hear a rumor that D-C was going fully rear drive, but I have read that D-C was questioning whether they should continue to sell traditional passenger cars as they're not getting the market share that they need to be profitable. Dodges and Chrysler cars get good reviews, but they don't sell in the volumes that they need to be competitive. The company's sales is heavily
weighted to trucks, SUVs and vans.

Plymouth has been killed off, but if Dodge didn't sell trucks they'd be pretty much in the same boat as Plymouth. I expect D-C to attempt something to differentiate their products in the U.S. market. Mercedes is identified with rear-drive, a line of rear drive U.S. built cars that are designed to create the perception of a value-priced Mercedes might be succesfull if the products did not
detract from the Mercedes brand image. Presently Lexus succeeds in selling very clearly Toyota based vehicles as an upmarket brand, because the lower priced Toyota cars are perceived to be very good values. J. D. Powers rates Chrysler products very well, but Chrysler has not been able to convert that into consumer acceptance.

It will be interesting to see how Nissan's Altima line fares in the market, as with the Dodge Stratus, Nissan was facing a possible retreat from the U.S. auto market if they don't gain a bigger chunk of the shrinking family sedan market. Nissan seems to
be on a come back.

I have nothing against German engineering, especially if Dodge can lower the cost threshhold for those type of products.


tim

[jleilich]

the way i see it, next year there is going to be a big market gap opening up that GM is leaving wide open (camaro/firebird) and chyrsler needs to take advantage of the RWD pony car market even if its limited production

[Tim Keith]

Most of the RWD market has been going to the trucks and SUVs.
Gasoline is still cheap where I live. Most buyers probably don't care whether a vehicle is front wheel drive - my Toyota has been a very good car. Ford has been able to market a lot of six cylinder Mustangs to keep that car viable. The enthusiasts' market is only part of the success of the 'Stang, the Ford gained a broader appeal, whereas I think the Camaro was viewed as mostly a "kid's car". I expect that build quality ( and resale value) has much to do with the Mustang's continuing popularity.

I suspect that Mopar would do best by building a larger RWD car, a "300" - emulate a bigger German sedan, with American muscle and styling. At least Mopar would be popular again with the police and taxi fleets . I kind of like the name "Chrysler Fury".

D-C seeks to find ways to share components between north American built cars and it's flagship Mercedes brand. RWD is a natural, but diluting the Mercedes brand image is a concern. Yet, as the old A-bodies thru the big C's shared much of the basic motor and chassis engineering, I think D-C could also make it work.

[David D]

I think they see the SUV/Truck market cresting. Many sources are reporting that there is beginning to be more demand for cars again, look at the strong sellers for the Japanese and European makes sold here. My opinion is that D-C is thinking that they can lure buyers back with more traditional American sedans and coupes. I see the big problem with the American FWD cars compared to the Japanese in particular, is that customers expectations of what a particular manufactuers cars should be. You buy a Toyota, and your pleasantly suprised at the ride being better than you expected for a Toyota. You buy a Dodge, and many seem to be dissapointed that the ride and performance aren't what they perceive a Dodge to be. The Dodge may be a better handling, riding, performing car than a comperable Toyota, but even among younger customers, some images die hard.

[Tim Keith]

I think we'll see more shared engineering between Mercedes and U.S. built Chrysler products. A transmission in a Dodge might be functionally identical to a Mercedes unit, but the component could substitute some parts for economic justifications, a Dodge subsystem probably won't be the identical to a Mercedes. I think D-C could better position the Chrysler brand as a "near Mercedes" to target Lexus, rather than Chrysler as an upscale Dodge. I would have liked to see a Mercedes derived inline six offered in the 2002 Ram instead of the 4.7 based V6. I think Detroit's strengths could be used to lower the costs of building the German cars.

[Walkercolt]

I just gotta burst this bubble! D/C's new US chairman reported at the stockholders meeting that DC was going to reduce the number of engine/driveline platforms by at least 50%. You guys must have never seen Germany Mercedes Benz's...most of them, the "A"(little SUV) the "B"(compact 4 cyl.car) the "F"(mid-size sedan competition for Taurus) and the new little roadster are all FWD,or AWD(not 4WD). MB is getting their FWD drivelines from Mexico, off the same production lines as the DC products. This is in this months "Business News" magazine. Since the Stuggart crowd canned Hubble(Mr. P/T Crusier) the "Copperhead" project(RWD, V-8 4 door sedan) which was aimed for the cop-car market(an estimated 2-3 MILLION vehicles per year!!!since GM has no RWD sedan and Ford won't for 2002) has been "shelved".MB also cancelled the DeSoto, the Ram based SUV, because the price "would encroch on the MB marketshare", like Benz has a BIG SUV. We will see a new generation of FWD trucks based loosley on a Neon platform, and new "micro-vans"(remember the Vista's?) new mini/micro SUV's. RWD cars are as dead as Hudsons, Packards and Tuckers. The only people who want them are police departments, and there is a co. in Arizona re-building old Fords and Chevy's for cop cars. They lease them. City of Tulsa wouldn't accept bids from them because they aren't "new" vehicles, so they bought Impala's for $38,000 each(with cop equiptment) instead.

[dodath]

correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the new crossfire going to be a rearwheel drive? Not that this means anything definite but a month or two ago there was a spy shot in motortrend of a chrysler car that was a test mule for a new rearwheel drive system. I also believe that some of the bad weather traction advantage that fwd has is eliminated with the new traction control systems that are on todays rwd cars. I may be dreaming, but I give Chrysler a couple of years to come out with a hemi rwd car w/ a manual transmittion. Something Charger like, it doesn't have to look just like the show car or anything close, just hot. If that doesn't happen, I might just end up with a new bmw 330. I love my ram, but have a serious itch for a sports car. One that seats more that 2 people and would be comfortable on long trips yet still haul ass. I think Nissan is getting close with the new v-6 altima with four doors, and a 0-60 time in 6.3 seconds w/ manual. Just a couple of flaws, its fwd and is a jap car. Or maybe a hot new hemi 5.7 dakota ext cab with a manual; why couldn't they give the current dakota r/t a manual dammit. Maybe I could put a 360 in my wife 98 intrepid, put in a manual and make it rear wheel drive

[PRO]

Remember guys Im telling you what Ive heard from reliable sources not my opinion or heresay,as by now youve seen it in print,rwd is coming,also I just saw the 2002 Intrepid Cop car,go to www.detroitnews.com/2001/autos/b01-320652.htm Most likely anything thats is rwd will have an upscale awd option plus the engine is already in there front to back on the LH platform so its a natural marriage.FWD cant handle hemi power!!! its mangled mounts and cv axles.............PRO........if this address wont work go to Performance column and look under heading Mopar Police cars and click there

[Walkercolt]

Pro, I'm sorry but you're 180 degrees WRONG on this whole thing. The Stuggart guys won't allow US DC to "intrude upon our pricing platforms"...in English, they don't want(won't have) DC selling cars that compete directly with MB products. The Chysler cop car is dead as a dodo for now. The projected price of the cars was $38,000+, not a bad price for a police-equipted car, but only $2000 less than a MB sedan. The thing the Germans don't realize is except in a very few towns,like Beverley Hills, Spring, TX, Miami/Dade, the citizens won't stand for the cops to drive BMW's or Mercedes Benz's. Spring, TX has been using some BMW's with great success and they cost just the same as the Grand Marquis"Interceptor". Hugh thing is, a used MB, BMW is worth something, a used US cop car 2-3years old 100K miles won't bring $3500 to a taxi co. at auction. And I'm also sorry to tell someone that front-wheel drive drivelines will handle in excess of 500HP and 650 ft/lbs of torque. You doubt that of course. Well take a look at the Lancia Legos Sedan. It has a 5.2L twin overhead cam, variable valve timing, 6(!) valve per cylinder V-8. Without the ECU mandated speed limiter, it will top 300 KPH(186MPH), just like the 8Liter BMW's and the MB's with the Viper V10's, replacing the old inverted 7.6 L V-12's. PS. Toyota and Nissan and Toyo-San all make RWD 5L+ V-8's for home market consumpsion....why don't they sell them here???? The Lexus 430 and the new Infiniti are both much smaller cars....

[Maxwedge]

Walkroft
Calm down dude
Of course the powertains are being pared down, all the small cars are going to be Mitsus and the trucks and cars are going to share the same engines/drive trains…And yes the Next gen Intrepid/300/Chargers are going to be RWD….
Also note
Don't be Rude man, Pro(I formerly had Stoogas ame here...AHHHHH) knows a sh!tload more than you
Maxwed

[Chargerchuck]

DC is losing so much $ they couldn't afford to convert their entire product line/production to RWD even if they wanted to. Daimler has to answer to its shareholders and it would be impossible to justify the cost/benefit of switching to RWD. The average car buyer doesn't know or care about the difference btw FWD and RWD. All they want is dependable transportation. Also don't forget 9/11. Auto manufacturers are offering 0% financing but are having to borrow $ at around 5% to cover the cost of these loans. The people buying cars now are those who see this as a "one time deal" and the new car market will dry up once these financing schemes come to an end. At that point all of the manufacturers are going to have to hunker down. Given the way DC has been mismanaged, they will be lucky to be in existence in 5 years, let alone be manufacturing RWD performance cars!

[Maxwedge]

Chargerchuck and fellas
I have read about the RWD conversion in about 50 different places..do you guys have your heads in the sand??go to car-truck.com and in there links section you will find A LOT on the future RWD platforms.
Chrysler CANNOT keep building the same cars, no one will buy them, as a matter of fact no one is…
I figure Daimler will do to Chrysler what AMF did to Harley…the only question is will Chrysler emerge like Harley or fizzle like Packard/desoto/Studabaker or any other huge number of companies…
Please pull your heads out of the sand and do some reading before you form opinions.

[dodath]

Sorry I was in a hurry and didn't remember the title of the magazine (automobile mag maybe), but their was an article about the new Germans in charge of bring back Chrysler and Mitsubitchi(bad spelling but who cares about mitsubitchi anyway) and it is once again stated that Chryslers new cars will be rear wheel drive. The sentence I did not like, was the one about how Chrysler will not be making low production niche vehicles like the prowler or CHARGER, and some cars like the crossfire will be built. How in the hell is the charger a niche vehicle with four doors and seating for four. The prowler and crossfire only seat two, not many two seaters on my street I WANT MY HEMI CHARGER

[Walkercolt]

The new operating President of DC said in Business Week and in Forbes and in Business News and in the newspaper they ain't going RWD. If you think they are, I've got stock in Packard, Frasier,Hudson and Nash to sell.The cop-car is DEAD! Iwish it wasn't, Tulsa,OK is spending more for "Impalas" than Durango's.But according to our city commision, the Durango "isn't an American product".Go figure.One suburb of Houston(Spring,TX) just leased 80 BMW 748's for cop cars!The 748 is the 4.8LV-8 Beemer...retails for about $77,000(Car&Driver, Road and Track prices)

[Chargerchuck]

Hey Wedge,

My head isn't in the sand. It's in the Wall Street Journal and Business Week, pretty reliable sources of information if you are looking to draw insight into corporate strategy and finance. Don't take it so personal if someone disagrees with you. I consider my sources of information as valid as you consider yours. Time will tell whether I am right or not.

[Gary]

I think everyone is partly right.

The LH bodies are going to RWD and the tooling is already being built in the factory. That is from an employee who builds them.

The intermediates will stay FWD until the next iteration, which sounds as if it's going to be a Mitsubishi platform. I don't expect that to be RWD, and haven't even heard any rumors that it would happen. A lot depends on what the competition does. Whatever happens, it's at least 3 years away, so a decision probably won't be made until sometime next year. This is the one I wish would get rear drive, since it's my favorite size car, but even with RWD, I don't want a Mitsubishi.

Neon, or its replacement will stay FWD, and I'll bet a paycheck on it. It's the cheap way to go, and unless there is a huge technology jump in RWD, the cheap rides will will not change.

[Chargerchuck]

Now that Ford is coming out with the Merc Marauder it will be interesting to see if this spurs DC to compete in the RWD performance market or if they take the approach that since Ford beat them to the punch they want to sit back and see what happens (which means don't expect anything out of DC any time before 2005) Or if they stay out of the market all together.

[Walkercolt]

OK, I would love RWD, but the transaxle in a FWD car is a 400-500lbs crash barrier. Even Cadillac gave up on RWD because of the "crash-rating" thing. If light trucks/SUV had to meet the same standards, they'd dissaper overnight. BMW, Jaguar(FORD) , M-B, and Ferrari have given the "Govt.safety-crats" the finger by saying "you want to crash-test our cars???Buy 'em retail!" DC's Hubble did that with the P/T Crusier. The Fed's aren't too happy about buying 10 $80,000 Beemer's to crash, so they aren't testing them. This is the reason RWD has gone away.If you look under the hood of a Lexus 430 Sedan or an Infiniti 450, there's more bracing in there than in a NASCAR stock-car. Car's sell by the pound, just like bread. The more metal you put in'em, the more they cost. Even wonder WHY the tiny BMW 320i costs so much????Or the little M-B SLK Roadster? If you want a V-8 powered RWD car, you'll have to spend $45,000 to get it, no matter where or who makes it. You really think there's a big market for $45K Dodges???

[ooo14]

Ford Mustang, Ford Thunderbird, Ford Crown Victoria, Mercury Grand marquise, Lincoln LS, Chevrolet Camaro, and Pontiac Firebird (gone after 02), Are all V8 powered rear drive cars that can currently be had for well below $45K. Cadillac IS going RWD on everything that it makes starting with the 04 STS (no longer the seville). I Don't Know fords future for rwd other than that the next mustsang will be on the LS platform. This is the same frame that the Lincoln LS, Ford T-Bird, and Jag S-type are built on, all RWD cars.
As far as Chrysler goes the entire LH family IS going RWD starting with the next Intepid, The concord will also return but they might change its name. Also I know as many as 5 vehicles will use the RWD LH platform.
I work for a major automotive supplier in Detroit. DC (both sides), Ford (its LS platform, and Trucks) and GM (cadillac) are our major customers. We design gas tanks and fuel filler necks. I can tell you that THE LH PLATFORM IS GOING RWD!!!!!!!