Shaker Cold Air Intake/ IP Stage 3

[Rai168]

Hi - I'm new here and found this site thanks to ROn WIlson - thanks RoN! Ok Down to business, I did a little browsing and saw a few posts about the Shaker Cold Air Intake compared to the IP Stage 3. I was leaning towards the Ip Stage 3 but now I am curious about the Shaker Cold Air Intake. Can anyone tell me where to get more info (i.e. a website) or offer advice how it compares to the stage 3. Thanks so much and what a great forum. Thanks a million Ron!

Rai

[Durango360]

The "Shaker" is a hood design based on the Dodge/Plymouth hoods of the 60's muscle cars. The basic design has a filter/scoop mounted to the throttle body that floats in a cutout of the hood. Thus, when the engine is running, the scoop tends to "shake" with the vibrations of the engine.

The hood for Durangos/Dakotas is sold by ProFinish-ProGlass. Here is a picture from their website:

http://www.profinish-proglass.com/th...ShakerHood.jpg

The difference between the Shaker hood and the IP Stage 3 is basically price and looks. The performance will be similar.

[RonWilson]

Welcome to Moparchat Rai!

I think D360 said it all. I do believe the Shaker will flow more air (and look awesome!). I am in the process as we speak of upgrading from the IP Stage III, though. IMHO, The IP Stage III has a few problems:

1- I do not particularly care for the restrictive bend the darn thing takes when exiting. Its pretty severe.

2- Another thing I don't particularly care for is the way the canister just hangs there. IP does supply a rubber or neoprene patch for the wheel hump, but I still see vibration a problem in the long run.

3- Lastly, I don't like the way the cruise control cable looks drapped over the canister.

I do like IP as a supplier, though. Very customer service oriented. I just would not recommend the stage III for the issues stated above. I would stick with there other solutions or seek other alternatives. The solution I'm working on does need to be modified to fit, but I think the results will be awesome (and look real good to boot)......stay tuned! I only know of 1 person that has done it. If ya still sold on the stage III, I'll be posting one for sale shortly (couple of weeks)!

Ron Wilson

[QuickDtony]

If your going for the look, then go for the shaker hood. But purely for the looks...not performance.
Well, Okay, I have to say it....I wouldnt pay that much money for the IP stuff. He started out with my kit, then wanted to make money, and made a cannister for it......WHATS THE POINT. why would you take a free flowing filter, and then confine it. Its like cutting out your exhaust and putting on a flowmaster on 1" pipe. Duh...but its the current trend since I went back to work....I am the antichrist and IP is our corporate sponsor savior.
I really like the shaker hood....but it should have been made a bit taller to really get the effects of the air. But in its current config, its uses the 14X3 filter which wont flow enough for WOT performance.
Which is why I went with the cowl induction hood, its gets the bad hot air out....and lets my cheap, sweet looking, effective intake take all the cool air its wants.
And while I am at it....I shivered at the thought of everyone taking their cruise control module appart for the 2000+ models. You shouldnt have to..just push down on it, and it will drop down and should give enough clearance for the filter to go above the wires. So far I am the only one that figured that out. IP and all those sewer pipe guys from Ebay all try to cram the filter beneath them.
I am going to be off work again for a while....having surgery on my shoulder..still from accident. So I will be around more to answer emails and chat on the phone.
take care and stay safe,
remember to say a prayer for all our loved ones heading east...
Tony aka QuickD

[white98club]

Tony,

Let's be fair. I have nothing against against any of the products in discussion here, but some of your points don't quite add up.

1)You compare your intake to IP Stage III. That's apples to oranges. I'm not intending to speak for John at IP, but I believe the point of the canister is to offer a solution that ducts COLD air from the wheel well area, whereas yours picks up air from within the engine compartment.

2)You suggest a 14x3 won't flow enough air. How's that? The TB limits you to 750-800 cfm. The 14x3 can certainly deliver that and more. Your filter is a smaller K&N with less surface area, but it somehow flows more cfm than the open element setup? How so?

3)I've had a cowl hood on a Dak. The raised duct is mostly covered up by cross bracing. The vent to the outside isn't all that great. Also, by design a cowl hood is meant to allow airflow _INTO_ the engine compartment(as opposed to venting hot air out) at speed and was originally intended to be ducted directly to the air cleaner. From a common sense standpoint I can't see how drawing air from up near the radiator is improved by the addition of a cowl hood. It's merely asthetics(as is the shaker) in my mind. A truly effective cold air setup needs to be ducted to the outside, be it at the radiator support, at the wheel well or through a ram air hood that is properly ducted. The shaker looks good, but at speed the airflow is probably directed mostly over the top of the intake.

I agree that the sewer pipe home jobs are an accident waiting to happen. That ABS wasn't meant for the vibration and heat environment that people are subjecting them to. I'm surprised there haven't been more reports of them shattering(with the resulting ingestion of small plastic bits!). Maybe people just aren't reporting failures. I sure wouldn't go there. People are saving what, $40-$50 over the cost of your kit?? Not a good cost tradeoff in my mind, but that's just me.

All are interesting products, and each will offer some performance gain. Would be interesting to get REAL dyno and track figures to support each, but no one has done much there. Perhaps a project I should tackle.

[Outlaw_D]

If you want the 14x3 to flow more air you can remove the chrome K&N cap and put on a K&N X-Stream filter top which will flow more.

Ron: if you dont like the cruis control cable, simewhere they have the relocation kits floating around, and you can always build something to hold up that little canister.
I dont rreally like that canister, i think the Stage II seams to be better than the stage III with the little canister and alljust seems like it almost restricts airflow more

[Durango360]

A 14x3 K&N flows 835cfm. By comparison, Nascar qualifying filters made by Wix flow 860cfm. A 5.9 is a far cry from a Nascar engine, even when heavily modified. As pointed out, an Xtream lid will flow over 1000cfm, which would also be a complete waste on this engine. Same pointless exercise as putting a highly ported throttle body on a stock engine.

I'm not sure how a cowl hood would bring any cooler air into a tube filter, especially when the filter is sitting right over the hot manifold or headers. The ProGlass Shaker or dual-nose hood still seem like the best remedy for cooler air.

[RonWilson]

I agree, the 14x3 will flow more than enough. The solution I'm working on does use the 14x3 (sealed) and will have 2 4" pipes ducted out through the factory fog lights. I'll post when I'm through....I thought about making the Good Hood functonal, but I don't like the way it looks under the hood, coupled with the fact I have a body lift, and would need to modify it to get a seal more than I wanted to.

Outlaw- I agree that the stage II is a better solution. Just modifying the IP stage 3 to correct the vibration and cruise issues, that would still leave the restriction. So, I opted out....


Ron Wilson

[QuickDtony]

From Day one, I have never wanted to be a business.....if you really want to know.....
I have put myself it a bad spot trying to deliver high quality parts at almost cost. Check the facts, since I came out almost 3 years ago...my prices have dropped about $50. So what do you think I make off them....actually I get deeper and deeper with each new product.

but that 14X3 will flow on the dyno. With the hood up, fan blowing in front of the truck and with the motor running at a nice temp.
but close the hood, and its a different story.
I was the first to come out with an intake for the D. And I didnt just add something to somebody elses kit. I tested, bought different sizes of filters, tested again. Yes, one of my best friends has a dyno shop, and another builds race motors. Race cars from all over come to them for help. I DONT KNOW CRAP about air flow, dont claim too, but if they ever needed help with Human Resource info....they would come to me.

Nascars place the filter in a slighty more advantage location. Most drag cars dont even use filters, just a sheet of sponge material.

you can run a bigger filter, and it flows better on the top end.....but it gives up off the line.
smaller filters pull hard off the line, but they peak out on the top end.

I sat with the Owner of AKIMOTO racing, back when jim worked there, and he confirmed that all this cool air box crap is hype. The gains are being made by the volume being taken in. the computers are going to compensate for air temps. Sure cooler is better, but most often its not practical.

And to clarify, MY intake doesnt sit on top of the headers or manifold. Its out in front of the heat source.

And to clarify, the cowl hood doesnt claim to improve performance on its own. What it does do, is provide another exit point for engine heat.
And if you dont believe it....come check my windshield at night. I always keep my defroster on because there is always a heat ring around the hood vent.
So lets think it through....Cool air is rushing in from the front(think we can all agree on that)hot air rises....air rushing in hits filter, then pushes heat up and out of the hood, or out over the tranny.

But its all kinda crap anyway....
DO TO YOUR TRUCK WHAT YOU WANT TO DO, and can afford....if you wanted a race truck, should have bought a ferd.
I loved the way my D looked, and performed stock......but as always I wanted more. So I made something that worked. Now She is a Quick MonsterD. Soon to be even taller.
Any intake mod is going to help...its just a matter to what level.
Dans TB is the best and the cheapest TB out there.
add some free flowing exhaust and its good to go.

if you have the money to spend...spend it.
but like me....most of the people that have put my kit on, Dont have it to waste.

I have sent out over 3000 orders. Dont think anyone is going to catch that for a long time.

I wish someone would come out with a new TB HAT, I still think a lot of air velocity is being lost there.
Maybe now that I will be off again for a while for surgery.....maybe I will start tinkering again.

But I seriously dont want you guys to think of my posts or me, and trying to sell you anything. I really dont want to be a leach. I dont make money off my friends...and YOU can come over and see the $1500 worth of pipes I have sitting in my garage. I cant go out for dinner, but I have pipes so that people dont have to wait for orders. I was one of the first Members of the D club, and I used to be one of the most vocal. But I am still the same guy that if any of you need help working on your D, bring the beer and I will bring the wrenches.
I dont think most people on the net realize that I did it for the new friendships and not the money.
Actually, I need new brakes...I have the beer, anybody in So Cal thirsty..and done them before.

[Durango360]

When my D was mostly stock, I ran the Edelbrock foam triangular filter, K&N drop-in, and K&N tube. They all got the same feel and results - lotta sucking, not a lot of power - around 10hp at most. The only difference was price. The K&N tube was $160, the K&N drop-in was $40, and the Edelbrock was $15. You make the call.

I agree with Tony on the cowl letting heat out, but I would think that it would do a better job of getting the heat away from a filter on top of the TB, and not one at the front of the engine. The only way to know would be to stick a remote thermometer on the filters at different locations and monitor the results when cruising.

[white98club]

Sorry Guys, but the "cowl hood lets heat out" argument is only true if you're sitting at a light or playing on the dyno. You are completely ignoring why cowl hood designs came about in the first place. Are you aware that high pressure is created at the base of the windshield when the vehicle is at speed? Where do you see NASCAR taking in air for the carb? Why do you think that is?

Tony, I'm not ragging on your product. To the contrary, I'm considering a purchase. But if you're making these things and not making any money on it, you should be asking yourself why. The materials and the fab shouldn't be costing you that much. You should consider new suppliers. There is nothing wrong with making a fair dollar and running your business as a charity is pointless. You could donate your time to truly needy charities instead.

As for the less restrictive airhat, it's already available. K&N has a very nice cast piece. You need to get a 4" to 3" reducer to get it to mate up to most common cold air setups, but it works very well and is a significant improvement over the stock piece with the 3" inlet and that metal bracing in the way of the air flow. I don't have the part no. handy, but Summit sells them(where I got mine).

[Lesley]

Hey Tony... I appreciate your hard work! I'd be glad to buy you a beer, but you live too far away

[2001 Durango R/T]

white98club - What is the airhat part number? I looked for it at Summit and couldn't find any reference to it.

Lesley - Yeah, he may be far, but our beer is worth the drive.

[white98club]

Durango R/T, the Summit part no. is KNN-85-1060. It's not cheap at $128, but I found a noticeable improvement after I bolted it on. It's also a pretty sharp looking piece. You can see a quick pic of it installed in tandem with the cold air intake. Please excuse the washed out photo:

http://www.dnai.com/~bobm/images/ip-kn.jpg

You will also need the silicone 4"-3" reducer, about $28. You can get that from Baker Precision in Signal Hill, CA. 800-959-7757 I didn't have any luck finding it on their web site, but if you call they can take the order for it.

Plan to actually dyno some of these intake setups within a couple of weeks to get some hard numbers on what works. Will baseline the stock airbox, try a 14"x3" K&N, the cold air w/stock airhat and then the cold air w/K&N airhat. The truck pictured was sold a few weeks ago and I'll be trying this out on my new '01 Graphite CC R/T Dakota. 500 miles on it now. Just want to put about 2K on it before going to the dyno.

[Lesley]

You're right, that IS a sharp looking piece. But... it's $200 in our money. Ouch.

[2001 Durango R/T]

Thanks for the info. I've already ordered both the Airhat and the reducer and am waiting anxiously to receive and install!

Loved the pictures on your site, you've got a really sweet pick-up!

[white98club]

One detail I failed to mention is that the K&N airhat does not come with a PVC return fitting that the stock airhat has. I ran it for a short while on the pictured truck using a K&N breather(not recommended, makes a mess). Before mine goes onto the new truck I'll drill and tap for a simple brass nipple to be installed on the backside to keep the stock PVC return hose in place. The casting is heavy enough(actually quite heavy for an airhat) that it should accept enough threading to hold the fitting.

[2001 Durango R/T]

Cool. I'll do the same thing. Thanks for the info. Probably won't do too much for performance, but it looks great and should go well with the new valve covers that I ordered. I'll put those on when I get the 1.7 RR.

[white98club]

Thanks. Sold that truck a few few weeks back and I'm starting mods on a new '01 R/T Dak. It matches up nicely to the wife's D we got a couple of months ago:

http://www.dnai.com/~bobm/images/Dur-altz1.JPG

Beauty of this arrangement is the motors are the same, front ends basically the same, etc. so mods that don't quite work out on one can be tried on the other



BTW, I think you will actually see some performance gain with the K&N airhat. It's much less restrictive inside as it doesn't have all that bracing the stock unit does.

If you're going with 1.7s, consider guide plates and the longer pushrods at the same time. The geometry change at high rpms could pose a problem. An even better upgrade would swap the springs out at the same time, but that's a pain with the heads still on the truck.

Good luck.

[dug]

I really like your K&N Airhat induction set-up. What all is pictured? I know its a K&N Airhat with a 4"-3" reducer (from Baker Precision) but what parts make up the rest? I am considering this set-up for my 2001 Ram with a 5.9L. It'll work won't it? Thanks in advance.

[2001 Durango R/T]

I was going to make those other changes (springs, etc) once I replace the heads. Hadn't thought about the plates though, makes sense.

BTW, nice truck. What did you do to the exhaust? That's not a standard tip....

[white98club]

dug: that's an Intense Performance Stage II. Same as Quick D setup except their tubes are done a little differently. I'd encourage you to buy Tony's stuff since he is active on this Forum and I feel they are equal products.

2001 R/T: that exhaust was done by the dealer(as was the wheel/tire package. This was the GM's executive demo. Magnaflow muffler, I believe, and it's a dual exhaust so their is a matching pipe on the driver's side you don't see. Nice sound and the wife likes it. Currently has the better exhaust between it and my Dak R/T, but that will change soon when I get the MP headers and 'Cuda style catback put on the Dak.

[DurangoSLT360]

http://www.delphi.com/dakotart/messages?msg=3961.1

This guy on a Dakota R/T showed a .3 and almost 3MPH with just the shaker hood. Though he has a few other mods that might help out his numbers.

Myself I gained .4 and 1.8MPH with the combonation of IP StageIII, quick D TB and flowmaster muffler cut in. For me the Stage III was an improvement but not as good as I was expecting.

To me if I had the $$ I'd opt for the Shaker. Besides similar or better performace you definitly get the cool factor. My compairison isn't really apples to apples since I have 4x4 and taller tires. But I do have the 5.9L with 3:92 gears.

If I did get the Shaker I would also get the extreme lid. Not for the "extra" flow but because the flow is more direct. Where on the std. 14X3 it comes in on the side of the air cleaner and has to go up then reverse direction to go into the TB. The shaker is more of a cold air intake and not much of a ram air because the actual scoop part does not stick up high enough to get the ram effect.

Todd