synthetic oil

[jleilich]

i figured id post this topic to see what everyone thinks and to get the low down, What does everyone think the best synthetic oil is, and why.. also , what about all those "great" additives like slick 50 anyone used any of this stuff? ive got mobile one in my dakota and conventional Halvoline in my cuda for now

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AKA GRNFSH: 70'cuda 440+6 ,2000 4x4 3.9L dakota sport

[F Cicalese]

I got 300,000 mile on my 318 on 10w40 Castrol GTX, My work truck is now running Mobil-1. It has 145,000 on it and runs like new. We switched all of our gas engine trucks to Mobil -1, and some of our drivers are reporting an increase in gas mileage. I'vealso got a 94 Ford van with a 5.8 (351) on mobil and it SEEMS to run better, and slightly cooler too.
My brother-in-law put slick 50 in his 85 5th Ave. 318 with about 75,000 miles on it. It ran great for about another 30,000 mile, but he noticed some gummy stuff during oil changes. The oil gallery to the left head was clogged, and the filter was completely clogged. He was normally very good at keeping up with his oil changes too. Usually at or BEFORE 3000 miles. He had great compression though!

[ChristianCuda]

I will say one thing that Engine restore works for a temporary fix to worn cylinder bores. My cuda had one low cylinder at 165 with the rest at 175-185. We put in engine restore and ran it for awhile. Rechecked the compression weeks later and they are all at 185. This stuff allowed me to not have to rebore this block and buy pistons cause if I had to then I wasnt going to. I would have to wait till the 451 was being built. I would rather put the money into the new pistons for the 451 than the 383@.060.

Christian

Oh and I use Slick 50 every 30,000-50,000 miles on my cars and never had problems.

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Http://ThunderRacing.Knudstrup.net/

68 'Cuda 383 Best of 8.363@83.78 in the 1/8mile which is a mid 12 with a 1.89 60ft
Formula S recreation not original but making like they should have at the factory) Working on adding EFI
69 'Cuda Race Parts Car
76 Duster 273 recent transplant
95 Neon 2.0 SOHC best of 16.96
84 Dodge Ram D50 transplanting 360

[mtrv8n]

I'm using synthetics, only because they handle heat better than conventionals.

[WS23]

One the the guys I race with said he switched to synthetic engine oil and dropped .2 of a second in the 1/4 mile with no other changes! He had no reasn to lie to me, as his 427 Vette was faster than my old R/T anyway.

Even so, I still run with straight 30 wt here in California.

[Dr. Righteous]

I started with Mobil one in '90 when it was still over $4 a quart. I ran it in my '89 Ford Probe. Well, in my commuting to work I rolled up 130k miles on that little car without a single problem. I sold the car to my sister who didn't know what an oil change was.
When she finally traded it in it had over 250k on it and it STILL ran great.
After break in my '69 Coronet will get its first drink of Mobil one.

[HOLESHOT]

anyone who does not run synthetic oil doesn't know how much HP there missing.not only does my motor run quieter it without question gets better mileage and power with an overall increase in oil pressure with less viscosity (5x30)than i used before.drag strip slips never looked as good as after the change.cheap insurance and power.

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[gthomas]

I've been running synthetic oils since the early 70's and have a couple of good examples. I ran a Ford Bronco (4800lbs) w/302ci for 200k miles on synthetics and gave it to my father over two years ago, and its still running and burns around 1/2 quart between every oil change. Also, I had the guy that built engines for our race car build me a 340TA block for my 72 Duster that I shifted at 7500 rpm. This took extremely stiff valve springs and required teardowns because of wear. After putting in a synthetic oil (All Proof)that was recommended to us by Smokey Yunick, I did my usual engine tear down and it was still within blueprint specs. I've never used anything but synthetics (I now use Mobil 1) since.

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1972 340 Duster
1999 2500 4x4 w/V10&5sp

[jleilich]

it seems most people use Mobile one, what about all those "high performance synthetics" like royal puple and redline. are they any better than mobile 1, also ,i still run conventional oil in my cuda because i heard you should start off with synthetic right after break in, is there a sugested method the switching to synthetic?

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AKA GRNFSH: 70'cuda 440+6 ,2000 4x4 3.9L dakota sport

[sanborn]

I think the use of engine lubricant depends upon the intended use of the engine. I like Mobil One and Red Lion. We used them in our race engines. They controlled oil temp and were very friendly to bearings and springs. But, the small end of our Carillo rods were blue through two teardowns. The pins were OK and the rod bushings were the right size but sort of blackish. In talking with several very good oval track engine builders, I found they experienced the same thing. And this was generally the opinion:
If you finish a race with the oil very hot (250+), shut the engine off without cooling down the oil (to less than 160), store the engine for 2-3 weeks and not preheat the oil to 240+ before firing then the rod end will blue. Their opinion is the dry sump creates such a good vacuum and the oil is so slick, almost all the oil is removed from the pin/bushing. It's hard for the oil to get back to the pin/bushing quickly once it's fired. I know once we went back to regular race oil the problem went away totally.

What I described is probably not your application but it is a consideration. We have used Mobil One in street cars with very good success. And our problem may be traced to dry sump engines only. My $.02 worth.

[jslikness]

I run synthetic in all my newer engine cars (Mobil 1), but have found that on higher mileage cars, the synthetics burn more oil. I guess with how slick it is, it will slip past the rings or valve seals or wherever much easier than conventional oil.

Haven't tried Red Line yet, but I did notice a big difference between the Pennzoil (conventional) that was in my truck and the Mobil 1 (synthetic 10W30) which is in it now.

-Joel Likness

[451Mopar]

I run 15w-50 Mobil 1 in the 451 stroker with no problems.

I run 10w-30 Mobil 1 or Castrol GTX in my daily drivers, all of them are high mialage and run like new.

I refuse to run PTFE additives in my engines.
For one, they are not needed with the synthetic oil, and it has been reported that the PTFE can plug small oil holes and the oil control rings on the pistons, which can cause the engine to burn oil.

I think Engine restore is OK, as it does not have the PTFE additive.

I also use Red Line gear oil in my manual transmission, transfer case and axles on all of my older cars and trucks.

On the newer Front wheel drive cars (IE. the Chrysler Concord) the repair manual and the tag on the differential warn agnist using synthetic gear oil. I think this may be because the synthic gear oil does not climb like the regular oil and may not lubricate parts higher up?

[Christopher]

I'm not sold on synthetics.Not because of the less wear or reduction of temp factors,it's the price.I'm a stickler for a 3mo/3000 mile oil and filter change.I have 2 vehicles,1986 Ramcharger and the wife's 93 Jeep Cherokee.Jeep has 125K,Ram has 116K all on Quaker State 10w30 and a Fram or AC Delco filter.So far no problems at all.My sister has a Honda with 240k,using the same oil,again with no problems.Oil/filters costs me less than $20.00 for both vehicles when I change.The synthetics cost 3 times more than dinosaur oil,so that's why I'm not sold on it.I know some run a extended oil/filter interval using synthetics,but I wouldn't.Just my opinion.

[Rex Jr]

I'm a believer in synthetics,less friction results in more power,gas milage,less wear,more protection,less oil changes.When we switched to synthetics in our race cars they all idled faster.As for Quaker State I would,nt oil a bicycle chain with that stuff,tore to many engines down that had quakere state in it,always real gummy.

[jleilich]

heres something else to stirr the pot a bit, Christopher mentioned the 3month/3000Mi oil change for "dinosaur" oil, but how much longer is recommended for synthetics, and how do we know when the oil is breaking down?

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AKA GRNFSH: 70'cuda 440+6 ,2000 4x4 3.9L dakota sport

[jslikness]

You know it's breaking down when the lifters start tappin and the rods start knockin'.... j/k

Seriously though, I think I remember somewhere seeing that Red Line said they recommend changing oil at up to 12,000 miles, but I just don't think I could go that long without changing. All the synthetic's I've changed were somewhere b/t 4000-5000 miles, and have all been a nice light brown color, looks like they could have gone a while longer.

-Joel Likness

[Alpha Geek]

Three things.

First, My dad junked a 63 Dodge Sportsman van with almost 750K on it. It had gone through 2 "\6" engines, a rebuild every 100K and never saw a drop of synthetic.

Second, What is with the love afare with Mobile 1? I have never had any problems with other synthetics.

Third, For Christopher and others who like to save money at oil change time. Wal-Mart brand oil is made by Quaker State. If you check the shipping lables on the cases you will see it comes from Quaker State.In fact most "Wal-Mart" products are made by major manufactures. I am not sure but I think I remember seeing some place that K-Mart filters are just the low end line from Fram.

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I’m fluent in several forms of Nerd, including Geek.

[This message has been edited by Alpha Geek (edited December 11, 2000).

[70 charger R/T]

Mobil 1 is the best rated synthetic oil out.
I strongly agree with Rex Jr, I wouldn't use Quaker State on a bicycle chain. Worst rated and fastest breaking down oil there is. I'd buy no-name oil before Quaker State.

[SubLime440]

I read on a website that tested synthetics that Royal Purple was rated #1, followed by Amzoil and then Mobil 1...but Mobil 1 is the cheapest by far so that works for me... I would not use Quaker State or Pennzoil based on the extra parafin added (tends to gum things up)...just my .02 cents...

[mtrv8n]

Dinosaur, heh..all oil starts life as pressed cretaceous plant life. What make synthetics different is the amount of refining, so that they are very pure chemically. It is as if they were created from scratch, but they are not. This extra refining allows the chemists to better control the properties of the oil.

As for duty cycles, i still try to go with 3/30, for several reasons. One, we are not using our cars as basic transportation. They sit for weeks sometimes, which gathers water. water contamination can best be cured by changing the oil. Also, we drive quite a bit harder than the oil is specced for, so it makes sense that it will wear out faster.
Lastly, the amount of blow by and other contamination of the oil by virtue of being run in high performance engines is greater, which dirties the oil faster. Not all of the conatmination is visible by color: water, as before, unburned fuel past the rings, etc, all degrade it.

So it costs more..how much, over the life of the car?
$100 per year, small price for the protection...

[MoPaul]

My Avenger 2.5 owner's manual recommends oil changes at 7500 miles. I run Castrol Syntec but still continue to change every 7k. Call me paranoid, but just in the event that some particle is floating around, I don't want it in there for that long. I basically drive her sanely, but the Syntec comes out looking like it did when it went in. It impressed the bejeezes out of me at the first change.
Also, and many will disbeleive, my highway mileage went from 29-30 to 32-33. The only other change was to the Bosch Platinum Plus-4, which I chose because of the pain of changing plugs.
But as a quick note, you will spend far more in the course of three months on extra cheese for your whopper than you will by changing to synthetic. Let's please consider how little money is actually involved for the time frame affected.

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73 Dodge Charger Rallye Coupe
96 Avenger ES

[Dart]

One thing to point out is that if you put the sythetic into a high mileage motor with some small leaks they will be REALLY bad leaks after the synthetic.

I don't mess with the synthetic, as Christopher said because of the cost. I usually buy whatever is cheapest at Autozone and change it less than 3k.

[HOLESHOT]

BOY'S,TURN THE LITE BULB ON , YOU ONLY FILTER 35% OF AVERAGE OIL CIRCULATION THROUGH THE FILTER UNLESS YOU MODIFY YOUR OIL SYSTEM,THERFORE IT'S THE FILTER THATS SAVED YOUR BACON,BUT NOT ALONE, WITH THE OILS ABILITY TO SUSPEND THE DEBRIS,I'M SOLD ON SYNTHETICS BECAUSE I'VE MADE MY OWN TESTS WHICH PROVED THE ISSUE,BUT EACH OF YOU ARE ENTITLED TO US PETROLUEM OR SYNTHETICS.WHEN YOU FIND THAT THAT $6000 ENGINE FAILED YOU CAN BLAME ALOT OF ISSUES BUT NEVER THE OIL!!!!

[vsteel]

Here is my two cents on all of this.

1. slick 50 and others. I would not use this stuff ever. All of the reserch I have seen shows that these products will actually hurt the motor. While teflon is slick, when it is under pressure like on a bearing, the molacules start to link together into much larger chains. This plugs everything up. The other types of additives are just 50 weight with regluar oil additives.

2. I don't believe that synthetic oils are that much better for regular cars. I have over 113K on my daily driver with penziol with 3K oil changes and it is still going strong. (91 gmc sonoma 4.3) They just don't punish the oil in my opinion. I also don't really like the 7K oil changes, I want to get the particles that just cut through the oil filter out of the system.

3. I DO run synthetic oil in my 97 KTM RXC 620 motorcycle, it punishes the oil WAY more than my daily driver. I also run it in my high performance engines, (350 chevy, 360 mopar) they get run a lot harder too. The motorcycle gets 1K changes and the others still get the 3K changes.

I believe that to truely get the most out of the synthetics you need to really be running the motor hard.

[Christopher]

I think some are missing my point...I'm not trying to sound cheap,just a bit of a cost watcher.I agree that synthetics are very good and do all the things we've read about.However,if you are on a 3mo/3K oil change interval like I am,it makes no sense in my case,to use synthetic.In my fleet of cars at work,we change the oil/filter every 7500 miles,using Union 76 10w30 and Fram filters.I've had to pull a few pans due to road damage and the engines are all clean inside.Before that we used Quaker State/Fram,same results.Now remember these are rental cars and get the crap beat out of them at times.I also knew I'd hear the comments about Quaker State,no problem with me,I've never had a problem with it.I just changed the valve cover gasket on the wife's Jeep at 126K and it's clean as a whistle,and it's been on Quaker State.