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  #1  
Old 10-09-2001, 12:23 AM
NOSTROMO NOSTROMO is offline
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Default Turbo Ram Build Up Part 2

Sorry TT440, The other thread was getting kinda long....

Well taking an in depth look at fabricating the manifold out of Weld El's is a bit more challenging than it seems. I decided on using 1 1/4 tubing which is about 1 3/8 inner . Anyway, the 360 head utilizes a bolt pattern in which creates clearance problems between the tubing and the bolts. In addition, the ports are of a rectangular shape where as the tubing is round. Attempting to hammer or squish the tubing into rectangular shapes to match the ports is pretty pointless as it will block airflow from the head. To resolve both of the above issues I purchased a flange and plate set from www.headersbypaul.com. They fabricate flanges for just about every american head out there saving you alot of time rather than making your own.

The flange and plate set up is a pretty cool idea. The 3/8 flange will bolt to your head which is pretty much a header kit without the pipes. The flange has countersunk holes in which you utilize flathead allen bolts to fasten it making the surface flat. The plate is basically an adaptor that will bolt to the flange allowing a wider bolt pattern for clearance of larger tubing as well as convert your rectangular ports to round ones with minimal flow loss.....although there might be some grinding involved to get them ultra perfect. They will machine the plate to accept he 1.7 inch od tubing i will be using. After tigging all of the pipes together i plan to get the manifolds machined perfect and use steel gaskets which should take alot of abuse and still seal.

Using this flange and plate setup might be the wrong direction but it seems like the best possible way without hacking everything to bits. I will post some pics when I get them. I would have likes to use the 11/2 tubing but it would still be size limiting.

Opinions?
Anthony
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  #2  
Old 10-09-2001, 08:42 AM
turbododge turbododge is offline
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Anthony: It is not as difficult as you might believe to get weld els to fit the port shape. If you use reducing els, you can get very close on size, to the port, when you change the shape of the els. All it takes is a torch, a hammer, and some prying bars, and a vise. I also used 3/8 thick header flanges , but had the openings made to the port size and shape, and then changed the els to match the holes in the flanges. There is enough room to have the els on the surface of the flange, they do not need to be in the holes like header pipes.

The flatheads are an interesting idea to save space. I am using socket head cap screws, with clearance ground into the els. The only downside I could see is that you would be using a much smaller allen wrench, so you would have a much higher chance of stripping the head. If you did strip it, there would be no way to cut it off.

Also, be sure to use stainless bolts for the manifold attachment. Standard socket heads and flat heads are too hard/strong and will break from the heat and movement. Stainless expands more than regular steel, so the bolts actually loosen a bit at temperature. I broke at least 3 sets of bolts before going to stainless 5 years ago, and have not broken one since.
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Old 10-09-2001, 01:06 PM
dewme5 dewme5 is offline
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also keep in mind the thermal expansion of your flange. as one big piece, there will be alot of expansion. (all depending on the type of metal it's made out of.) if the bolts are set in flat, that would make me think that the flange is countersunk. if that hole isn't big enough to allow for the expansion, they can get sheared off. on the other hand.. you can cut the flange into 3 seperate pieces. which will help combat this. and it will probably be easier to cut them after everything is welded together.
The "maximum boost" book by corky bell goes into the manifold design, as well as exhaust. covering flow charastics reversion, and general design. you will probably save yourself in scrap metal what the book costs. it's worth while to get .
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Old 10-09-2001, 01:21 PM
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That flange and plate deal you got sounds like a neat setup, I'll have to check it out. I do have one quick question... what's a "weld el"? Welded elbow maybe?
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  #5  
Old 10-09-2001, 01:51 PM
turbododge turbododge is offline
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Weld els are plumbing pipe that is setup to be welded together instead of threaded. It comes in all kinds of elbow and reducers etc, and is already chamfered for welding.
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  #6  
Old 10-09-2001, 02:01 PM
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Is this cast heavywall pipe, or is it thinwall tubing like typical exhaust tube? Where can I get it from?
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  #7  
Old 10-09-2001, 02:10 PM
turbododge turbododge is offline
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This is heavy wall, usually schedule 40, steel pipe. The best place would be an industrial plumbing supply house. McMaster-Carr also carries some, but not all of the fittings, if you have access to their catalog.
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Old 10-09-2001, 02:13 PM
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Kool, thanx! Just found this site

http://www.sdsefi.com/techheader.htm

it has a good article on how to make a turbo header using weld el tubing.
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  #9  
Old 10-09-2001, 08:28 PM
NOSTROMO NOSTROMO is offline
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Thanks for your guys input on this thing. Turbododge i did a bit more fiddling around and the 1 1/4 pipe. It will fit pretty decent once bent into a rectangualr shape as the head. I guess i will weld it from the outside and die grind a bit of the excess on the inside.....just not too much. The flange and plate idea is pretty cool but all of that work and money might for nothing so i just opted for the flanges instead. For the bolt head, probably either grind a bit of the pipe or machine it a bit for clearance. I had the same problem on my turbo stang with bolts getting destroyed and always use Stage 8 stainless locking bolts...definately worth the money.

Dewme, Maximum Boost huh? Amazon has it in stock....Worth reading?

I should have the flanges either Friday or Monday and take some pics....

Anthony
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  #10  
Old 10-09-2001, 09:43 PM
dewme5 dewme5 is offline
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maybe a barns-n-noble in town or books-a-million will have it sitting on the shelf. it's definatley worth picking up. it's one of the two turbo bibles. I would really suggest getting it, and reading up some before you strike an arc. Could be worth a couple of horse power!
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  #11  
Old 10-09-2001, 10:13 PM
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BUY THE BOOK


'nuff said.

It's got a couple minor boo-boos, but the pros WELL outweigh the cons.
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  #12  
Old 10-12-2001, 01:18 AM
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I know the thread is about a Ram..... but I thought I would go ahead and post the pics anyway. I mean it is a Turbo and it is in a Dodge truck.



Well it's not completely finished..... still need to get a new end put on the intercooler to finish the install. Right now it's using the "ice bag" intercooler at the track... at least when I go there Saturday. It's going directly from the turbo to the TB. Since this is the first turbo vehicle I have ever driven or worked on... I'm pretty amazed at how well it goes. The Garrett T04 is brand new. It's starting to break in a bit. It spools much quicker and it keeps making more and more boost. I keep turning the wastegate down and it still comes back up. I have learned one major thing already..... 12 lbs of boost makes you go WAAYY faster than just 5 or 6! hehehe

Here's a link to some other pics of the truck and my install.

http://members.home.net/cartel5/Turb...TurboPage.html
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  #13  
Old 10-12-2001, 01:06 PM
dewme5 dewme5 is offline
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soo... how about some times?
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  #14  
Old 10-13-2001, 11:17 AM
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so what size schedule 40 is recommended for big blocks??? im also working on a turbo-ram.
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  #15  
Old 10-13-2001, 01:38 PM
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you should stick to pipes with the same volume as the exhaust port. That will keep the velocity up and build better boost.
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  #16  
Old 10-13-2001, 05:47 PM
NOSTROMO NOSTROMO is offline
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I chose to use 1 1/4 for my manifolds. You might want to consider using 1 1/2 for a big block. As TT440 said don't go to crazy oversizing as it will kill turbo spool up (lag).
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  #17  
Old 10-14-2001, 09:35 PM
Duner Duner is offline
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Default 13.05 @ 106 mph

Quote:
Originally posted by dewme5
soo... how about some times?
Well that's the best I could do today in the heat.

60' - 1.932
330 - 5.493
1/8 - 8.401
MPH - 83.84
1000 - 10.918
1/4 - 13.051
MPH - 106.09

It was over 90 degrees today. It felt like 110... but that's probably because there isn't much shade at the track. I fully expect to see a 12.80 @ 107 or so next friday night if I don't change a single thing!

Duner - '00 CC Dakota 4.7 5-speed 3.92 posi
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  #18  
Old 10-14-2001, 10:20 PM
dewme5 dewme5 is offline
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the only truck that ive been up against, that was worth anything, was a early 90's lightning. worked heads, different cam, and some other stuff. Said he was getting about 100 horse more than stock lightning, and he was running 8.20's, on slicks, and about 45 degrees... pretty impressive getting that much weight moving that quick!
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  #19  
Old 10-15-2001, 10:51 AM
Duner Duner is offline
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I'm assuming that you are talking about 1/8 mile times? I am still in the very early "tuning" stage with this project. You can expect to see some high 7s from it in the 1/8 mile.
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  #20  
Old 10-15-2001, 01:03 PM
dewme5 dewme5 is offline
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yes. 1/8th mile.. I can't wait to get my car to the track. i really want to run the 1/4 mile, but I'm in the south... Guess it's just to much work to build the last half of the track down here.

I did a little street racing a few months ago. I only had the one tire spinning, an 2.94's in the rear. I lost to a mustang that runs 7.60's at the track, but i only lost by one car length, and he was race ready.. with out both tires hooking, i was a lost cause. I need a rematch!! (oh yeah... i need an intercooler too!!!!!)
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