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  #1  
Old 12-01-2000, 03:05 AM
70Challenger R/T S.E. 383 70Challenger R/T S.E. 383 is offline
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This winter i am going to pull the 383 in my 70 Challenger and rebuild it and detail my engine compartment. I want to keep the 383 so i was going bore it .060 over, get the 431 stroker kit from muscle motors, get some ported and polished MP stage V heads milled down to get a 10:1 CR with some 1.5 roller rockers, a MP 284/484 cam, and MP aluminum dual plane intake since i want it to look stock, a holley 750 with vac. secondaries, a MP electronic ignition kit with chrome ECU, and hooker super comp headers. All of this in a stock weight 70 Challenger with a 727 auto with a 3.91 sure-grip 8 3/4 with 275/60-15 bfg drag radials with MP xhd springs and 318 torsion bars and frame connectors. What kind of 1/4 mile times would be expected with this combo. I want at least low 12's and maybe high 11's with slicks. If these times couldnt be had with this combo than what could i do to achieve them .
Thanks to any help.

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  #2  
Old 12-01-2000, 04:10 AM
AZPentastar AZPentastar is offline
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Probably no need to mill the heads, just get MM to make the pistons to give you the compression you want. What about getting a Performer RPM and just painting it? BTW .060 over 383 with 3.75 stroke crank = 438 cid.
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  #3  
Old 12-01-2000, 04:15 AM
djswwg djswwg is offline
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Should go low 12's, I don't think it will go 11's, but ya never know! So let us know!
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  #4  
Old 12-01-2000, 04:38 AM
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440 Jim 440 Jim is offline
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My WAG,
Thats sounds like a well matched combo. It should go low 12's (12.1-12.4) with the right converter (say 3000 rpm).
To hit 12.0 or high 11's I think you need to completely rethink the combination. 3500 converter, 4.30 gear, 292/0.509 cam, M1 single plane intake or Edelbrock Performer RPM.
With good heads the first combo might go 12.0, but that Challenger probably weighs 3600 lbs with gas and driver.
How did it run with the 383?

Good Luck.

[This message has been edited by 440 Jim (edited November 30, 2000).]
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  #5  
Old 12-01-2000, 04:41 AM
Streetwize Streetwize is offline
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It sounds good, a couple things though. Before I'd bore a 383 .060" I'd find a 400 block. If a vintage block will clean-up @ .030, that's where I'd bore it. You can put in a Ramchargers notch on the intake side to make up forthe smaller bore on a 2.14 valve. Strokers with thinner walls can run pretty hot and even loose ring seal. it ain't worth it for only a couple cubes.

There are better cams out there, the 484 is good (and is an old Racer Brown grind BTW)

I know this is gonna cause a firestorm but what the he!!, use the B motor 6.36" rods. The ratio is still 1.7 and the shorter rod pulls away from TDC faster which pulls slightly harder on the intake charge allowing for a slightly more aggressive cam and larger intake port CC.'s w/o loosing bottom end torque. It also gives you a longer, more stable piston skirt. With the 6.76 rods the 9.96 deck pistons are pretty short. Intake centerline is also very important to make the combo work like you want it to. I'm not gonna get drawn into any rod/stroke ratio B.S theory arguments, I just know what I know.

E-mail me if you need any assistence, I've built stroker Mopars, Chevys, Fords and even a 493" Olds and what works on one doesn't always work on the other.

Wize 1

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  #6  
Old 12-03-2000, 03:27 AM
jammiejeanne
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I agree with 440 Jim, you will have to run a steeper gears to run in the 12's.
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  #7  
Old 12-03-2000, 03:55 AM
Streetwize Streetwize is offline
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Yes, I would generally agree with that too, I didn't Catch the LOW 12.s, My mind just registered 12's as in 12.60-to 12.7s, And you're gonna need better than average heads and/or you'll need more gear. A good rule of thumb is you need to be in high gear by right at the 1/8th mile mark just to get in the 12's. There was a time when I could listen to the 2/3 shift point watching a street Mopar go down the track and be able to guess within a tenth or two at the most what it would run from that one measure.

The other good 1/4 mile rule is if you can hear a Hemi gainin' on you at the 1/8th mile, you've already lost.

Wize 1
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  #8  
Old 12-03-2000, 03:58 AM
BruceM BruceM is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Streetwize:
I know this is gonna cause a firestorm but what the he!!, use the B motor 6.36" rods. The ratio is still 1.7 and the shorter rod pulls away from TDC faster which pulls slightly harder on the intake charge allowing for a slightly more aggressive cam and larger intake port CC.'s w/o loosing bottom end torque. It also gives you a longer, more stable piston skirt.

Wize 1

Funny, that's exactly what I have been researching tonight.

Ross makes a piston for the 400 rod & block w/440 crank combo, and somebody correct me if I am wrong (be gentle - I am a real novice at this), but wouldn't the shorter rods give you a lower bobweight (which is good, right?).
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  #9  
Old 12-03-2000, 04:37 AM
Streetwize Streetwize is offline
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Smoky Yunick was one of the first of many intelligent people I know of to write on this subject; over the years I've read too many books and articles, cut sections of bores out of blocks and even discussed the subject with Warren Johnson in the staging lanes at Maple Grove.

Bobweight is not the main issue. The mass of the shorter rod is offset to a degree by the longer piston compression height, let's call that a wash.

This is quite oversimplified because I'm tired. Take a number if you want to debate, we'll even argue it before the Florida Supreme court.

Long rod experimentation first gained popularity in Winston cup in the late 50's and early 60's when builders found that the top end power (as on a superspeedway) was more sustainable at higher RPM's with a longer rod. This means the peak power did not drop off as quickly as with a shorter rod. This is basically because as the crank rotates the piston dwells at TDC longer as rod/stroke ratio increases. But here's the key. The less airflow restricted and efficient the chamber the heads is the less dependent the motor is on the long rod to make good power. Engines back then when this first gained popularity did not flow as much air or burn it as efficiently as heads do today. Also this deals more with steady state (narrow RPM range) power and not accelerative power.

Conversely, the shorter rod does not dwell at TDC as long, so on a street motor it will be proportionally less detonation prone or, better still, higher compression tolerant.
At lower engine speeds, the lack of dwell creates a quicker(suction)draw on the incoming charge allowing for slightly more aggressive cam timing and port sizing without torque loss.

In truth, the difference on a 451 is less dramatic, a 1.7 ratio is still plenty good andthe 6.76 gives you 1.8. A short rod ratio tends to give a motor a more characteristic "Stroker" powerband. I really don't think a 451 meets the qualification as a stroker (to me, its a motor whose stroke is 90% or more of its bore) it's more of a "hybrid-optimized 440". A 360, BTW, is .895. Strokers powerband comes on fast and hard and tend to fall away at a relatively low crankshaft speed.

Rod wise, the other thing is cross-sectionally the shorter 6.36 rod is identical to the 6.76 so in terms of C to C Beaming strength it's inherently a little stronger. In the end, It all depends what you're doing with the motor. Short rod motors are less efficient in the sense that they need more CFM of airflow per horsepower produced, But in this day and age airflow (like RAM and processor speed) is getting relatively cheap for a lot of motors so the stroker (again on the street) can give you the best of both worlds. Rod length and its ratio is limited/determined by its packaging. A 427" Stroker Ford 351 Windsor has a 1.47:1 ratio (using a 6.125" 340 Mopar rod BTW)and make INSANE power. With aluminum heads the motor weighs in at about 475lbs. At 10:1 they'll consume a 255 degree @ .050" .575" lift solid cam and 305cfm intake ports and still idle with only a hint of chop at 750rpm.

More to follow I'm sure, but on the street in a 451 I like (personal opinion, so there!!) the 6.36's.

Wize 1



[This message has been edited by Streetwize (edited December 02, 2000).]
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  #10  
Old 12-05-2000, 06:22 PM
70Challenger R/T S.E. 383 70Challenger R/T S.E. 383 is offline
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alright, I talked myself into a 451 instead of a 431. Does $3000 sound too high for a 451 short block. I would buy a long block but i would like to do some work myself and the long block has different parts from what i wanted. i also want a short block so i can just transfer most of the parts off my 383 and save $$ too.I really want at least mid 11's and still be streetable and eventually work my way into the 10's, so 451 it is.

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  #11  
Old 12-07-2000, 04:49 PM
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440 Jim 440 Jim is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by 70Challenger R/T S.E. 383:
alright, I talked myself into a 451 instead of a 431. Does $3000 sound too high for a 451 short block.
Out of curiousity, who gave you that quote? Not bad, but it depends on what parts you get. I would insist on a forged crank. This is a ball park list:

$1000 machine work on short block, rods, balancing, etc.
$ 200 xtra for crank grinding to 400 main size
$ 100 bearings, rods, mains, cam
$ 500 Ross forged pistons
$ 100 Sealed power rings
$ 75 True roller timing chain and gears
$1975 subtotal
$ 250 core charge, if applicable

Now pay the guy for assembly and add what ever else you are getting such as timing cover, any gaskets, oil pan, windage tray, oil pump, etc.
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  #12  
Old 12-07-2000, 05:41 PM
70Challenger R/T S.E. 383 70Challenger R/T S.E. 383 is offline
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Hughes told me that a 451 shortblock would be $3199 to be exact. I thought this was kinda high considering 400 blocks are easy to find and cheap, and the machine work for the crank, block and rods,etc shouldnt add up to $3199. Maybe ill just buy parts seperate and save money since i'm kind of on a budget, that budget being around $4000-5000.Thanks 440 Jim for bringing up the point that 3200 bucks is too much, i didnt even think about it, i just thought about saving time and getting a 451 in my car as soon and easy as possible.

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  #13  
Old 12-15-2000, 05:41 AM
Streetwize Streetwize is offline
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This kind of gets back to the point I was trying to get across a while back. A 451 is a great short block but (dollar for dollar) not that much better than a 440. Apples to apples, use Muscle Motors as a comparison. Their 451 rotating kit (Ross pistons, steel crank, 6.76 recond'ed rods, etc) is $1800. You still have to clearance in the block and (at a minimum)triple check everything for clearance in the 451. (let's add $200 for additional machine work above and beyond normal boring/deck plate honing and square decking for the 400 block) For this you save about 35 lbs and get somewhat more ideal geometry which may add .05hp/cubic inch at best all else being equal (15-20hp) if you have enough head on the car to really see the advantage.

If you start with a 440 (and lets assume the core is about the same cost as the 400 initially) you already have a crank and rods so assuming you buy good pistons and recondition the rods and balance it you've spent no more than $1000. For a 451, that's about a grand difference for maybe 20 extra hp. That's roughly $50 for each additional hp. And in truth, when your using similar lightweight pistons in the 440 the real advantage won't even be 20hp.

That same $1000 could either be used for 1.) Better flowing heads 2) Building a 500" 440 block welded stroker motor , either of which could net you 60-80 more hp. Thats only $12.50 to $17 for each additional HP.

There's nothing wrong with a 451, it's a great short block ; But for the same money you can go significantly faster by putting it elsewhere.

Like the saying goes...it's your money.

Oh yeah, about $700 would by an 'easy' 200hp N2O fogger system!

Wize 1
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  #14  
Old 12-16-2000, 04:00 PM
Dragracerr Dragracerr is offline
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Challenger;
This question hit some good memories with me....felt the need to elaborate. In the mid '80's I raced a 71 challenger. Removed the rear seat, heater, radio, slapped in a roll bar and frame connectors used the direct connection bolt on spring re-locators, a 727 with a 3800 A-1 converter, a b-body Dana w/4:88 and made a set of short primary leaf springs by redrilling location pin. Here comes the best part, had no money to speak of so I took a old 440 that really needed boring in the worse way and honed it with a glaze buster, used cast rings on the stock slugs (cast'68 OEM pistons)had between .006 to .009 clearance (yes on cast slugs)and thought what the heck, I'll run it for a while until I can get some cash together. I used a set of 906 castings cut .03 only because I had to, a Crane F274 cam, isky ductile rockers, sealed power push rods for solid cam OEM application, Eldebrock Tm-7 and a 800 holley, cruised on Fridays, raced on Saturdays. Ran 11:40's for three years like this, car weighted 3450 with me in it. Probably the best toy I ever had or will have for the investment.

Enough rambling..Hope you are all still awake, moral to the story: Don't get caught up in all of the techno crap, Use a basic combination, bore it only enough to get straight, round cylinders (providing you have the $$$ lol) Use a std crank if at all possible or minimal under. If its to be streeted use harden seats on the exhaust at a minimum. select a cam to match the converter and head rates and have fun! If you already have a 440 core use it! If you can find one without getting raped, do it! You could replicate the engine combo above without the short cuts I was forced to do for $1800 - $2200, If you can't find physical resources to do this let me know, I have a few cores laying around.

(fellow surfers: I'm not interesed in selling cores, I intend to keep as many of these as possible for myself and buddies in my area that need the same help, so please dont bomb me with :Emails asking "how much")
JK
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  #15  
Old 12-16-2000, 04:41 PM
fast68plymouth fast68plymouth is offline
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while i basicaly aggree with everything Streetwise is saying, ill go one step further. i wouldnt pay a penny extra to change the rod ratio on a street/strip, or bracket motor. while i aggree that the short rod motor has some advantages(like what he was saying), my feeling is that any money you spend on altering it is money that would be better spent on something that will show a more tangible result. get a 440 block, and build a 496. it will fulfill your needs for current and future plans easier, and in the long run end up costing less per .10 ET gain in your car.
thats my .02 worth.

[This message has been edited by fast68plymouth (edited December 16, 2000).]
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  #16  
Old 12-16-2000, 06:48 PM
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Brian_wo Brian_wo is offline
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wow,we have went from a low buck stroker to a high dollar stoker

The 451 only costs $200-$300 more to build if you are starting from scratch than a 440 does but the 496 will kill a guy like me,mancini wants $1100 for the crank alone for that I can almost do a 451 short block.

Hey streetwize,hope your sticking around,I plan on doing a 496-500 maybe as a blower motor and will be loking for advice from guys such as yourself,thats a motor that is completely out of my league but you only live once,besides the kid doesn't need to see the dentist,those are babay teeth and will fall out anyway LOL
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  #17  
Old 12-16-2000, 08:01 PM
fast68plymouth fast68plymouth is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brian_wo:
wow,we have went from a low buck stroker to a high dollar stoker


it seemed he was willing to spend the $3199 for a 451 shortblock from hughes, and for not much more than that i could build a really nice 496. and for your info, the new eagle 4340 4.15 cranks will be about $900 racer net. so at our shop it would go like this:
95.00 deck and square block
200.00 bore and hone with deck plate
175.00 balance
42.00 clean block
45.00 install cam bearings and freeze plugs
50.00 deburr block
175.00 line hone block
900.00 crank
675.00 rods
625.00 pistons
170.00 bearings
140.00 rings
165.00 custom comp cams solid cam
75.00 lifters
100.00 billet timing set
200.00 assemble shortblock
75.00 main studs
-------
3727.00
now it may not need the line hone job, and i dont know if the huges engine comes with a timing set or a cam and lifters, or main studs, but even if it does, it doesnt come with a 4340 crank, or the extra 45 cubes. he stated that the long term goal was 10's. this is a bottom end that will EASILY run tens in street trim, and not need any upgrading for that kind, or more, performance. and maybe the shops in his area can do it for less money.


[This message has been edited by fast68plymouth (edited December 16, 2000).]
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  #18  
Old 12-17-2000, 04:33 AM
Dragracerr Dragracerr is offline
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guys,
Sounds like we went from a desire to have a good running streeter, to selecting a short block for a purpose built racer. I believe he mentioned T/A radials.....

3000 - 3200.00 for a 451 SB

to

3700 for a 496 short block

These nice parts are designed for extreme loading as commonly found in a racing environment, not the variable cycling that occurs in a dual purpose car, These types of components will yield to the daily thermocycling and low RPM scrub as quick as if it would for full throttle usage.

Challenger,
Its only money, cant take it with ya........ But……….
I believe you also mentioned in you original post you are shopping for heads as well, a basic 446-452 CI combo could be had using a OEM 440 core, and if you truly intend to street this then keep the CR at or below 9.7 to 1 and use a cast crank.

short block with heads and valvetrain, $2200.00, 11.30's to 11.80's depending on balance of combination and altitude of track.

or

use the heads and valve train from above, add $3700.00 for short block, sum of roughly $4500.00 and run 11.00's to 11.50's.

Maybe I have been doing this to long, but $2300.00 for a 3 tenth drop doesn't get me to excited. To use the benefits the better quality short blocks will provide, you will need to spend as much $$ on the top end.

-- JK --
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  #19  
Old 12-17-2000, 03:14 PM
fast68plymouth fast68plymouth is offline
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i guess the point i was making is that for not much more than a 451, you can have a 496. as far as running 11.30's for 2300 bucks, well most of the 440 cores ive seen need boring, and its unlikely youll find heads that dont need a bunch of work. i just dont feel thats a realistic number for a reliable street motor that will run 11's. i also dont feel that the 4.88's you ran are really what id call a "street" gear. besides, when was the last time you talked to a guy with a fast street car that didnt want it to go faster. with a good foundation he could keep upgrading the top end, and power output from the engine without worrying about the integrity of the bottom end. do it right, once. sure you can build a bracket motor to run fast in a bracket car, but they usually dont work very well on a street car. everyone knows the bigger cubes will take less hopping up to get the performance you want. they didnt build 488ci V10's for gas milage, they did it to have more power in the same state of tune as a small motor. for REAL street performance, IMO, you cant beat cubic inches. (we dont all live right in a town with a drag strip, and may actually have to drive some distance to the track) but thats just my .02 worth, ok maybe .03 worth.

[This message has been edited by fast68plymouth (edited December 17, 2000).]
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  #20  
Old 12-17-2000, 07:02 PM
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Brian_wo Brian_wo is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by fast68plymouth:
i guess the point i was making is that for not much more than a 451, you can have a 496.

Point well taken here anyway,if I was building a 451 and it was going to cost $3200 and then found out I could build a 496 for $500,well that would be a no brainer for me.
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  #21  
Old 12-18-2000, 10:29 PM
70Challenger R/T S.E. 383 70Challenger R/T S.E. 383 is offline
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Alright, once again you guys talked me into a bigger motor, the 496. Do i have to use a 440 block or would a 400 be better? What kind of crank do i need for it since the 440 crank wont go that big? How much cheaper would it be to buy all the parts myself and take them to a machine shop rather than kits i've seen for around $2700? I've heard some grinding has to be done in the block, could i do this myself with a grinder; how do i know where to grind? Sorry guys, i've never built a stroker, just a 440 for my uncle and a 383 for my dads freshly restored 67 monoco wagon with woodgrain and 4 wheel disc brakes from the factory.
Thanks for all the help.
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  #22  
Old 12-18-2000, 10:37 PM
70Challenger R/T S.E. 383 70Challenger R/T S.E. 383 is offline
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Oh yeah, my car is also, from the factory, a 318 SE, so i can really do anything to it and not worry about decreasing value or anything like that, i just made it a r/t clone since it had the 383 when i got it and the r/t hood. I just wanted to keep it in the original condition from when i got it(i dont know why though). Its original sublime green with black top and black and cloth interior, i added the spoiler package front and rear, tuff steering wheel, standard dash(i like it better than the rallye), widened body color steelies with dog dish caps, hood blackout decal,and a black bumblebee stripe.
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  #23  
Old 12-19-2000, 01:22 AM
Dragracerr Dragracerr is offline
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FAST ’68
Actually and honestly I did this for less than half of that. I’ll re-emphasize this was back in the mid 80’s. ‘83 through ’85, For clarity we will rehash the core of the subject. We are talking complete long block. The sheet metal/intake/carb etc., are not part of this equation.
Bore/ pistons $450.
Cln/cm bear. $110.
C/rod Recon/new blts $130.
Bear.’s $140.
p/rings $85.
Gsk set $50.
Tmg set $65.
Cam/lifters $240.
Springs/ret/locks $180.
Pushrods $95.
Rockers $200.
Head mach. $425.
Again this is assuming you have a "good core" , true they are getting harder to find however if you are asked to pay more than $500 keep looking. I would bet if these guys are resourceful enough they could trim the cost some more. Let me be clear on this, this can be done by anyone, this is not a "race" motor and this is a Far better piece than what I was using at that time.
Also true, the 4:88 is not a street gear, but I also ran 30" tires on the car. In mid ’94 changed to a 4:10 and still ran 11:60’s with the same tire. You offer a nice package that does represent a good value, I was only thinking he intended to remain subtle in approach from the content of his po
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  #24  
Old 12-19-2000, 04:31 AM
Streetwize Streetwize is offline
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Okay, I'm back.

Thanks for all those cards and letters!

The motor I am building now is going to be 508" and here's how it breaks down:

Block square decked to 10.72.
Deck plate honed to 4.36"
Welded stroker 4.25" with 2.2" BBC rod journals.
7.1" Eagle steel rod w/ .990 floating pin end and mopar big-end width with BBC bearing. (anybody got W/D +?% on eagle?
Piston will be JE w/approx 15cc reverse dome (Dish) and approx. 003 piston to deck (adjust for 10.75:1CR)
Ramcharger intake bore notches
Heads-Stage V with approx 305I/225E flow @ .550 & 80cc chambers
Cam-Ultradyne 251/255@.050 108LDA /108CL Mopar 904 Solid. approx .570/.580 gross lift.

Intake-M1 single plane or Indy dual plane (If I can find reasonable)

830 Annular discharge Holley tricked to flow 910cfm. 1 7/8 hookers with pulse-tech 3 1/2 collector.

This is not the original low buck approach I started with, but...what the heck. The rods are for insurance if I want to put in a 200HP fogger for some extra big end charge. I won't launch on the spray cause
I don't want to wrinkle my virgin '70 Charger quarter panels at the roof welds. This motor should make over 620HP with over 600lb/ft from 2800 to 5500.

What do you think?

Wize 1




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  #25  
Old 12-19-2000, 08:28 AM
Street-N-Strip Street-N-Strip is offline
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"Wize 1" -- What I think is... you're building a 500+ c.i. engine and setting it up with a 440-size cam and headers. I tested the identical UltraDyne cam in my 440 and it made peak HP @ 5800 and peak torque @ 4200 using 1-7/8" headers w/ 3" collector.

I'll admit I haven't read the entire thread to see if you've explained more of what your goals are (killer-torque street engine, serious street/strip, etc.). If it's a street engine, I think you have too much cylinder pressure @ 10.75 CR w/ open-chamber iron heads to run pump gas (even w/ octane booster). Also, the engine displacement & head flow #s look better suited to a 2" header, even if you still plan to keep the RPM under 6000.

As always, just my opinion. - S&S
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  #26  
Old 12-19-2000, 08:43 AM
70Challenger R/T S.E. 383 70Challenger R/T S.E. 383 is offline
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Alright, once again you guys talked me into a bigger motor, the 496. Do i have to use a 440 block or would a 400 be better? What kind of crank do i need for it since the 440 crank wont go that big? How much cheaper would it be to buy all the parts myself and take them to a machine shop rather than kits i've seen for around $2700? I've heard some grinding has to be done in the block, could i do this myself with a grinder; how do i know where to grind? Sorry guys, i've never built a stroker, just a 440 for my uncle and a 383 for my dads freshly restored 67 monoco wagon with woodgrain and 4 wheel disc brakes from the factory.
Thanks for all the help.
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  #27  
Old 12-19-2000, 11:02 PM
Streetwize Streetwize is offline
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Location: Charlotte,nc
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Challenger,

I'd use the 440 block but only because to get the 6.76" rod with a 4.15 stroke into the B motor your piston's going to be really short, the top of your pin is only about .600 from the deck (approx 1.12" compression/centerline of pin distance)
I got the 508 going together over the next month, you want one too? I'll take some pictures if it'll help you.

S & S

Thanks for the comments,
This motor combination kind of keys off the really phat 260cfm intake flow at under .400 lift which will allow me to get the most use out of the cam without resorting to a whole lot of seat to seat duration. The 2.19" Intake valve plays a big role as does a very efficient (and hush-hush) multi-angle Serdi valve job. As you probably know, most ported 'B' production heads are lucky to flow 260 @ peak and when they do the low lift flow usually goes down. The U/D cam has a great 168 degrees @ .200 lift (moderately aggressive roller #'s) but unfortunately most Big Block heads aren't ported/tuned to take advantage of it. In most cases, the poor running MoPars I've seen are a case of Too much cam and not enough head(flow) , not the other way around.

I build the heads for the power output I need (in this case about 1.2 hp &lb/ft per C.I) and try to utilize the smallest cam that'll get me there for the sake of drivability and sane valvetrain longevity. For example, my 427" small block Ford (Hey, it's a Replica 65 Cobra and it's got 340 MOPAR rods, so cut me SOME slack) made 511 @ 5600 with a 240/246 @ .050, 108LC Hydraulic!!

I could use a custom solid roller with even less running duration and still get there but I don't want to run the super stiff springs on this primarily street car. Also note the long 7.1" rod; I'm normally not in the long rod camp for street motors but in this case I'm going to take out a little bottom end and add a little top with the longer rod.

I build my street motors more like a road-race type powerband, for a drag race power curve I'd go about 275-280@.050 and 106 lobe centers. This is a 3910 lb w/240lbs of me in it, 2500 stall and 3.54 gear car that I'll drive several hundreds of miles to shows.

Regarding your concern about compression ratio and pump gas; I can adjust the lash, the advance curve (under dash MSD retard) as well as the shot and jetting to allow for the running of this compression on the street (& strip.)

BTW, my economy car (a S/charged 2000SI ) runs 13.8s on a peg-leg with 8 lbs of boost and 10.5:1 on pump gas and it does fine on 93 octane. Yeah, it's a ricer but I don't care if the doors get dinged and it does keep me in tune with new technology. I'm trying toblow it up so I have an excuse to autopsy it to find out how they hold up at over 2 hp/ci

Wize 1

Oh, yeah, the headers; I've found that unless your side-stepping the below 3500 RPM part of the powerband with either a clutch or a 3200+ stall converter, An iron head B motor goes quicker with the smaller 1 7/8" tube.
IMO, the 2" kills too much bottom end and doesn't offset it with huge gains up top, especially with a street exhaust. (well I do have Max-Wedge style 3" cut-outs)

Maybe you have, but I've never seen a hydraulic cammed Iron head B motor run major league strong out of the hole with 2" primary pipes. I think even in this big but fairly mild combination the smaller tube will work a little better particularly a heavy automatic.
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Streetwize

[This message has been edited by Streetwize (edited December 19, 2000).]
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  #28  
Old 12-19-2000, 11:42 PM
70Challenger R/T S.E. 383 70Challenger R/T S.E. 383 is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Clarksville, TN USA
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Streetwize,
Pictures would be very helpful to me.

Thanks for all the help guys.

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M....massively
O....over
P....powered
A....and
R....rare
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