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  #1  
Old 11-26-2001, 01:31 AM
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71383bee 71383bee is offline
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Default Starting problems

Hello,

I just attempted to fire up my bee tonight and boy as I pissed. I just swapped out my suposed rebuilt TQ for a brand new holley Street Avenger 770 cfm dp carb. I used the spreadbore adaptor on the edlebrock performer intake. I don't have the throttle cable hooked up because i forgot to get the Chrysler kickdown lever for Holley's, but I thought that i could just run it anyways. Well I finally got it to kick over and start, but it would rev really high and die in about 10 seconds. I had a buddy play with the throttle while I started the car and the most we could get it to run was for about 30 second and that was with a lot of minute throttle play. On two occasions it backfired through the carb and started a small fire! Holley claims that the settings are bang on out of the box, but when i looked at the float heights through the sight holes the gas was nearly at the top of the sight holes! Now I know that that aint right. Could this thing just be running too rich? I hooked up the electric choke correctly because it closed right away when I first tried to fire it up, but with all of the misfirings it heated the carb right up and it was open in no time. Could the choke be opening too early? It did seems to start easier with the choke closed. With the TQ I could get it to start up, but I had to stay on the gas until it warmed up to running temp and then it wouldrun real rough at anything under 1200 rpm. I am just looking for advice if anyone can help, this is my first holley so go easy on me.
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  #2  
Old 11-26-2001, 02:42 AM
Jims451 Jims451 is offline
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You already answered your question. The float level is too high. Re-adjust the float level so the fuel is at the bottom of the sight plug.
This adjustment depends on fuel pressure. also, you will have to use up some of the gas in the fuel bowls to see the new adjusted float level.
If the carb continues to have high float levels, the float in the carb bowl may have a pin hole in it. I had this happen once on a brand new 650 DP holley. Also check the idle mixture screws. I would try just one turn out from the fully seated position.
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  #3  
Old 11-26-2001, 05:17 PM
Mills Mills is offline
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451 is right. Adjust idle mixture screws w/ vaccum gauge. And don't drive your car without your kickdown operational - you will wreck your tranny.

Mills
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  #4  
Old 11-26-2001, 05:27 PM
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polarapete polarapete is offline
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Question Vacuum Leak???

At the risk of sounding obvious - Did you plug off or hook up all the vacuum ports? Particullarly the big PCV port (sometimes found low in the back of the carb). Extremely high idle speeds (if possible) and backfiring sound like an extremely lean mix.
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Old 11-26-2001, 07:23 PM
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Jims451,

I thought that the floats were too high myself. Doesn't the car need to be running in order to check the float height? Do you think that the choke is opening too fast? It seemed to open way too quickly for my taste.

polarapete,

No I checked the vacum stuff. The advance is plugged in off of the passenger side primary metering block, the PCV is plugged in under the front large 45 degree port, and the power brakes are fed from a port on the intake so the rear port is plugged on the carb.

I may have to do a vacum test, what is involved with this? What settings am I trying to achieve?
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Old 11-26-2001, 11:20 PM
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polarapete polarapete is offline
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Default vacuum test & readings

In a mild engine the idle vacuum readings can be 17 - 18. Mild, like a stock 318 two barrell in good tune. The racier the motor the lower the idle vacuum reading will be. That is why back-up vacuum canisters are popular with guys that have racy cams and power brakes. You check this with a vacuum gauge plumbed directly into the intake manifold. I would still take a can of WD-40 and spray it around the carb base while the engine is running. If there is a significant change in the idle quality while you do this, you will have found a vacuum leak. I think you said that you had to use an adapter to mate the carb to the manifold. You might also plug off ALL the vacuum ports, including the power brake line to eliminate any possible leak. If the float level was set to high or the fuel pressure was so high that the float could not stop the fuel flow, the motor would stall or run so rich your eyes would water from the overly rich mix.

I once bought a '68 Pontiac for $5.00!! The owner couldn't keep it running and had an accident with the car. This car had a check-valve on the power brake line that broke open, the car stalled and crashed into the garage door when the older owner was not able to apply enough foot pressure on the pedal to stop the car. The hood was smashed closed and I had to pop it open with the fork lift. After I sealed off the vacuum leak, I ran the motor and was able to sell it for $350.00 and everything else brought a nice profit.

Don't get desparate. Just recheck everything and you will find your problem.
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  #7  
Old 11-26-2001, 11:34 PM
69Coronet4evr 69Coronet4evr is offline
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Bee,

Double check your initial timing (with no advance). Can do so without running the engine. Also, are you sure the vaccum advance is plugged into the correct port?

For the idle vaccum check, you want to adjust the idle mixtures until you get the max possible vaccum reading while idling (once you can get it to idle).

Are the throttle plates coming all the way closed when at "rest" position? I've seen some adapter plates interfere with throttle plate movement. With the engine OFF shine a light down the carb throats and verify the throttle plates are indeed coming all the way closed. Good luck.
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  #8  
Old 11-26-2001, 11:49 PM
gthomas gthomas is offline
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When I first fired one of my engines it also ran bad and wouldn't idle, incorrect fuel pressure. Ended up buying another electric fuel pump and regulator. The TQ's seem to run with a lot lower fuel pressure than Holleys. Checked your fuel pressure lately? Please don't take this as an insult, because I missed this one, and am only trying to give ideas.
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  #9  
Old 11-27-2001, 06:10 PM
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polarapete,

My buddy who was trying to help complained that his eyes were watering while he was working the throttle and I was starting. This would seems to indicate more and more that the float may be set too high. I can adjust these with out running the engine correct?

I do have a brand new mechanical fuel pump. It is the Holley high performance model 851 i think. Could this thing be getting too much fuel pressure and the floats can't keep up?

I don't necessarily need the adaptor because the the Edelbrock performer has threads for both styles of bases, but I thought that a little extra plenum volume would be nice.
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  #10  
Old 11-27-2001, 08:23 PM
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Default Float Height Adjustment on Holleys

The last Holley I owned was a while back, but the procedure is still the same. You have to have pressure in the line to make the adjustment - so the electric pump must be running or in your case the engine has to be running. If we assume that the float level is too high, then as a ballpark adjustment loosen the locknut on the top of the float bowl and turn the screw clockwise one full turn. Do this to the front and back. Clockwise lowers and counter-clockwise raises. Tighten the locknuts and start the engine.

Your idle mix screws should be 1 to 2 turns out from fully closed. Turn them all the way in GENTLY, don't screw them home with all your strength this will deform the needle shape. Your helper should be standing by with a CO2 fire extinguisher (Seriously!) and be ready to switch off if need be. Once the engine is running smoothly, you can fine tune the level. With the old solid brass plugs, we wanted to see the fuel wet the threads of the plug hole with the plug out. With the new clear plastic plugs, a level half-way up would probably be right or a little high.

The Back Fire that you had might have ruptured the Power Valve Diaphragm. This will cause the motor to run extremely rich and you cannot compensate for it, the part would have to be replaced. This was a common problem on the old Holleys, but the new ones are supposed to have a Check Valve in the Vacuum Circuit to protect it. Let us know if any of this helps. Good Luck!!
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Old 11-27-2001, 09:11 PM
kcbear kcbear is offline
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Perhaps you've had some time to try the above advice and maybe you already have your Bee buzzing smoothly. But , if not, assuming you fixed the float level problem, I think it sounds like you could still have a vacuum leak. You mentioned Edelbrock Performer--was this a manifold, and did you change or remove it? Sometimes when installed, the intake doesn't seat properly, causing vac leaks. However, the advice w/ theWD-40 works here also.
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  #12  
Old 11-27-2001, 09:36 PM
morrisbrw morrisbrw is offline
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Holley guarantees this carb to be right out of the box. If the TQ ran ok accept for the cold engine part. then the holley should run right. Take it back and get another one. If the fuel level is too high to start with there is no telling what is messed up. If holley goofed up they need to know it. Take it back.
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  #13  
Old 12-01-2001, 08:09 PM
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Ok I got to fiddle with the car today and with two half pumps on the throttle it started right up. It only ran for about thirty seconds. The car seemed to idle really high so I nudged the throttle to kick it into curb idle and it died. After that it was business as usual. When I checked the float hieghts before i started the car they were right on. I adjusted the fast idle down and leaned out the choke and it still won't stay running. I have noticed that i have to pump the carb a little to start it and it seems to start and run off of the gas i pump into it, but it will die real quick. It seems as though it is not getting any gas at all throught the idle circuit. I checked the idle screws both were set at 1 and 1/8 turns from fully seated. I also noticed that the fuel in the float bowls are high again at about the top of the sight plug. I wonder if I am still having intake leak problems. If the intake is sucking in too much air than there is no vacum to suck the gas out of the carb? Is that what may be happening. I don't think my curb idle is off, if anything it is too high. Whenever I pump it and start it the engine revs to about 2600 and then sputters out. Opinions anyone?
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