Police 318 or 360?

[PowerRam86]

Help I have police cars on the brain.

I called a wrecking yard to find a 360 core for a rebuild project for my 86 4x4. He said he had an 87 police car 360 with swirl heads. I was interested. I could not get at the casting numbers or the vin but the emission sticker said it was a 5.2.

It was a 4 bbl, all the cool oil, trans, power steering coolers other than that I do not know.

There was actually two to choose from and they were absolutly complete and a decent price.

Would these police 318s be a better project than a 360?
Are these 87 swirl heads really a big deal? Did they come on 318s? Where do I find the casting numbers on this particular engine?

[Ausydad]

From what I understand, the swirls are worth it. I would get the 360 for sure. Also get the coolers, sway bars, all the goodies. You can always sell 'em at the meet if you don't need them. Speaking of which, if either has a sure-grip 8.25, rip the rear end out for me, PLEASE?! I'll be happy to send you money for it plus shipping since I haven't found any available police vehicles around here. Thanks George,

[Karl43]

Go for the 360. It has more stroke, which gives more torque and power. The emission stickers are usually what the vehicle came with from the factory (unless someone put the wrong on by mistake). Always verify the engine size with the cast numbers in the side of the block, or the stamped numbers on the front of the block under the driver's side head.

[PowerRam86]

It sure seems fishy to me that both these cars have all the goodies and then would have a 318. I am going to take some tools with me tomarrow and see what i can discover. How do I find out if this thing has a sure grip? I am sure this guy would work out shipping and the whole bit for you.

[Ausydad]

Being in a junkyard, they're probably already up in the air. If so, spin the rear drum, if both spin the same way, SURE-GRIP! If they spin opposite directions, pegleg.

[Thunderstruck]

First off,

Police motors were only found in cars in 87. However, police motors were not too hot hp wise but rather had a host of durability upgrades that could be found in HD truck 360's as well.

Secondly, the 360 was not available in 1987 in any car, in any version.

Thirdly, only the truck 360's had swirl port heads, since only trucks had 360's in 87.

Only 2bbl 318's, in cars, had swirl port heads in 87. The 4bbl 318's had 360 non-swirl heads in 87 pass cars.

If you find an 87 cop spec Mopar it'll have a 318, along with a buch of coolers added to it. It might be a 2bbl or 4bbl, I have seen both.

You'd best check the numbers to verify what you are getting before you slap down the cash.

Steve

[Dave]

No truer advice has ever been spoken, Thunderstruck. Look and see for yourself.

I have seen the Heart shaped chamber(Which I understand is the high swirl 318 head) on a 318 4 bbl '87 Diplomat X-cop car.

We also rebuilt a 360 from my Dad's '90 1/2 ton and found NO heart shaped chamber. They were "302" casting heads which I heard were supposed to be the high swirl ones. I don't believe they were. They did have a different shape of port on the intake and the exhaust side. The intake port was narrower and the exhaust port was raised, but the chamber is identical any old 360.

There's what SHOULD BE, and then there's what IS. The proof is in the proof. Hey, that almost sounded wise. or not. LOL!!

[PowerRam86]

Thanks, I think I am going to quite wasting time and get a local 360 core. I read rumors of some mislabled 360s being droped in 87 cop cars but that is almost certainly a lark. The guy at the yard said 360s had scalloped ballancers and said he could feel it and that this engine had one. What is that about?

Ausydad, if you will email me I will give you this guy's number. The car is not up in the air and it is sitting in some mud so jacking it will be a problem. I do not think I am going to get my hands on the car again. I am sure he will be glad to help you out. I think he said something to me about it having sure grips.

[Ausydad]

No problem, George. I can easily be reached at:

I would like to talk with this guy about the rears and hear for myself what's going on since they're still on the ground.

[Dave]

Be careful when you are dealing with a guy that says he can "feel" something about an engine. You never know, he may also be able to read the mood of a torque wrench too. LOL!!! Touchy feely type to be sure! He he!!

If you can get to SEE the damper, the front of it will not be symetrical all the way around. There are 2 types of balancer used on 360 LA's. One had a smooth front on the outer ring with a groove around about 1/3 of the way around removed that was about a finger width wide. The other one has a smooth outer ring and protruding inner ring that sticks farther foreward from the outer ring and has a sort of a blob stuck on one side of it.

I've heard about 360 Diplomats too, but I've never seen or read about one that actually exists. To me the most likely way for one of these exist at all, is if someone like ATF, FBI or Secret Service needed one. If so, I would bet that they did the swap themselves and then undid it after. That way they could do whatever mods they wanted and return it to civilian spec later with no uncomfortable questions from the nosey doo gooders and tree huggers.

Good luck and don't forget your incense

[Dave]

Be careful when you are dealing with a guy that says he can "feel" something about an engine. You never know, he may also be able to read the mood of a torque wrench too. LOL!!! Touchy feely type to be sure! He he!!

If you can get to SEE the damper, the front of it will not be symetrical all the way around. There are 2 types of balancer used on 360 LA's. One had a smooth front on the outer ring with a groove around about 1/3 of the way around removed that was about a finger width wide. The other one has a smooth outer ring and protruding inner ring that sticks farther foreward from the outer ring and has a sort of a blob stuck on one side of it.

I've heard about 360 Diplomats too, but I've never seen or read about one that actually exists. To me the most likely way for one of these exist at all, is if someone like ATF, FBI or Secret Service needed one. If so, I would bet that they did the swap themselves and then undid it after. That way they could do whatever mods they wanted and return it to civilian spec later with no uncomfortable questions from the nosey doo gooders and tree huggers.

Good luck and don't forget your incense

[Thunderstruck]

No telling whay someone might have done. I got an 87 Diplomat with a 273 in it right now. I put that in to replace the 360 it had, snapped the oil pump drive.

The 360 went in to replace the 318 it had. Why? More power.

This Diplomat also has an A833 4 speed in it too. Not from the factory though.

Let's look at what is known about the factory in 1987.


Officially, no 360's in any cars for anyone. Now maybe the feds could swing a deal. What kinda 360's does CC have on hand in 87? Truck 360's. HD for sure but not fast. What's needed prepare a truck 360 for install into a pass car? An oil pan for sure. Weighted torque converter too. The 318 A904 auto isn't a good choice behind a 360 in "pursuit" applications so a 727 is needed, but wait....in 87 were there any 727 equipped Diplomat's? Dunno, but that means a driveshaft swap, as well as kickdown linkage mods too.

Other mods that are concieveable but not needed. New cam, for pursuit purposes right? Maybe a valvespring and retainer change, delete rotators. Carb rejet and what about leanburn? Did trucks have it in 87 and if not will a 318 lean burn setup properly run a 360? If not then what? Delete leanburn? More mods.

I dunno, I do not see the factory doing this for a couple hundred, at best, cars. The government buys from the lowest bidder. All this stuff would jack up the cost of the car so either the gov't would have to get special funds for this (right, no real justification) or CC would have to eat the loss. I dunno, doesn't look realistic to me.

Steve

[Dave]

I've read the AHB (Police package) Diplomats got A999's or 998's for the tranny. A 360 weighted converter would solve most of the trans issues.
I wouldn't put it past a Secret Service/FBI/CIA kind of outfit to make the tools they need to do their job though.
It wouldn't be right if the President's motorcade was be escourted by a bunch of 18 second sleds.
Although, even if any were made or modified, it is very unlikely that WE would ever see one. If you're the gov't, why tip your hand?
Who knows? I'd sure need a long paper trail to believe that one actually was made.

[PowerRam86]

I said I thought it surly was a lark. But now that I know what I am looking for I am tempted more than ever to go and check it out again. The balancer should be way different than mine, I have my own 318. That is what the guy was telling me when he reached down and felt of the balancer. Me, being an idiot did not know what he was talking about. The whole thing really looks original. And just to be sure the castings will tell the tale.

[PowerRam86]

Well, this mystery is solved. Both police cars have 318's one is a water car. So, now the search for a decent 360 block to rebuild. This guy has some but he is a little pricey. $200 for a core. Locally they are $150 and Dallas is just up the road so there will be shopping. Thanks to all of you. I would still like to get the swirl ports if I can, are they only in 87 truck 360s?

[5thAve]

If the FBI or any government agency ever had a Diplomat made with 360 they would have either gone with a 727 at that time aswell, or done it when the 904/998/999 died. Having the 360 weight added on or getting a 360 converter is simple, but if they need a 360 to make a car move the way they want it to it wouldn't have taken long for the smaller tranny to blow.

727s were optional in some fleet Ms. I still don't know what goes with this because originally I was under the impression that they weren't offered after the early 80s when Ms lost their optional 360s (80 or 81). Then I was told by several people that you could get them but only in HD 4bbl cars. When I did the 727 swap I got the linkages, and driveshaft, out of a 2bbl 318 taxi package Diplomat and this car was all stock.

Go with a 360, even an all stock 2bbl one will very easily out perform a 4bbl 318. Used and rebuilt they usually cost about the same, although 360s are harder to come by.

[Dave]

'87 or '88 on up to '93 360's will have the head that they are calling High Swirl. Although like I said we had Dads '90 360 apart and the chambers looked identical to any previous 360. I've also heard that they are kind of prone to cracking. Have them mag'ed to be sure. MP has a re-issue of this style head that they claim has fixed the cracking problem. Although if a guy is spendin' those aluminum Edelbrock heads look pretty darned good too. If I had the coin I think that I would do the Edelbrock deal. my $.02.

[Rug_Trucker]

I have a wrecking yard near me that has tons of cop Dippy's. Most if not all have 318's. The 318's in the cop cars there are TQ equipped and from what I have been told they have 360 heads, and 340hp cams. I wish I could have found a $200 core when I was rebuilding my engine! I couldn't find a 360, had to pay $250 for one that had a busted exhaust valve. That was before I found this junk yard. He has 1or 2 360's. Right now I have a 360 that is completely rebuilt (not the used one I redid) for sale here in the for sale ads.