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#1
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I'm trying to rebuild my 383 better than last time.It was built street/strip ran high 14's[67 Satillite, 727 tranny,391 gears].I plan on driving to some car shows so its got to be streetable.What is max safe RPM's?I have forged crank rods pistons[TRW flat tops].SPS rod bolts,main studs for it this time.Plan alinehoning and balancing.What else do I need for higher rpm's.Do I need better steel main caps? Last time it had Crower 300 dur.450lift cam,Holley 650 carb and street Dominator intake,Unilite distibutor,hooker 1 7/8's tube headers.This time I have Holley 750,Nos nitrous system,340 converter,Rhoads Lifters,Vacuum canister to help it.Are these good choices for street?Especially cam and converter.What HP pills for nitrous system would you use?
Thanks Tim |
#2
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Don't even both with align boring unless you plan on making serious horsepower. You won't need much more than 6000 rpm max. To rev more is not needed. You only need to shift between 5500 and 6000rpm.
I make 400 horspower with a stock 400 and shift at 5500 and go through the traps at 5500. I run 13.30's @ 104 with 3.91 gear in a 3700lb Aspen that's with stock pieces except for the comp 484 cam and ported 452 heads. Unless you plan on going into the 11's you can run a lot of stock pieces and make serious power. Jason Jason's Aspen/Volare Club http://www.geocities.com/indychamp |
#3
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Chuck the tork converter and get a 3000 stall aftermarket.This will give better launch (big time) and better quality idle. Your cam is lacking some lift, around .480 to .500 should work. Like bbpaspence says, no need to rev over 6000 rpm. One more thing, if you use the same in a 440 block, you'll have more power and easier to drive on the street. djs
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#4
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Update...now my 400 ran 12.97 @ 106 in a 3700 lb Aspen. I upped the shift point to 6000 and I picked up a ton!!!!!!
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#5
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bbaspense has good proof on what basically stock 383/400 can do. That crower sounds more like a "cheater" cam for the strip. Way too old school Its exactly what you don't want for the street. Id say get a smaller duration HIGHER lift cam(Hughes). Hughes' HE2330 looks good to me: .504/.515 223/238 @.050". With this cam youd have about 10-15"mmHg vacuum so you could ditch the vac can AND rhoades lifters. But don't take my advise, call Dave Hughes(309-745-9558) and get his exact suggestion. I know any different cam from him will be an improvement in both power AND idle quality.
also, and i believe much more important, based off your rather week times, your huge 1 7/8" headers are really suckin up your power. ditch em for 1-3/4" if you can't find 1-5/8. Smaller and longer headers should help all around. in your case bigger is not better. Dave |
#6
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Be carefull with the nitros. The cam you want to use is small on lift, which will give alot of cylinder psi with the nitros. That will ruin a piston or more, GUARENTEED!!!!!
The Grump!!! |
#7
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Someone once wrote to Hot Rod and asked what a "safe" RPM for their engine was. The answer is "Zero" RPM. With good rod bolts the 383 should be OK for under 6,500 RPM, but parts may still break expecially if using nitrous oxide.
Your cam looks suspect, as it has very little valve lift and alot of duration. You will want to run a higher lift cam with less overall duration. Look at the Hughes cams and maybe 1.6:1 ratio rocker arms. The HE HE2330 that myduster360 mentioned would probbably work good with your short block and cylinder heads that are stock or milidly ported. The problem you may have is the TRW flat top pistons. I don't think these have valve reliefs in them? At the least you will want to have the pistons cut to handle a higher lift cam. You will also want to make sure the engine has a good amount of compression, at least 9:1 with the HE2330 cam. If you want to work around your existing short block, you will want to select a cam, and matching parts to make good midrange power and torque. If you want a "Radical" 383 and plan to run nitrous, then you may want to use aftermarker rods and higher compression pistons with valve reliefs that can handle a higher lift cam. The 1-3/4" headers do work better on mild 383's, and I think the Edelbrock Performer RPM intake is possably the best street/strip intake avaliable for the 383? With the bigger cam in the 383, you will want a good 9.5" or 10" torque converter that stalls at or above 3,000 RPM. I have heard good things about Dynamics 9.5" converter, and I really like my old Dynamic 10" behind the 451 stroker. If it were my 383, I think I would build the engine for about 10:1 compression (On a budget I would use the Keith Black pistons and reconditioned rods, and no Nitrous, or for more $$$, forged racing pistons, Eagle Rods and the nirtous system), use the Hughes HE3038BL cam (230/238 @ 0.050", 0.515"/0.536" lift @ 1.5:1 ratio rocker arms, 110 LSA.) The Edelbrock RPM intake, Holley 750 CFM carb, either 1-3/4" or 1-7/8" Headers, Dual 2.5" exhaust, the Dynamic 9.5" converter. The heads is where the power is made, and I would use the Edelbrock Aluminum heads, but the stock iron heads with larger valves and some porting will work also. With the better breathing heads, I would use 1.6:1 rocker arms for more valve lift also (0.549"/0.572" with the HE3038 cam.) |
#8
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how radical can you build 383 still drive on street?
Thanks for your replies to a very old post. Since that time Bought Mopar 509 lift 292 dur cam.Planning to use the Rhoads lifters.Think they will make it more streetable and make up for only having 9;1 compression[not 10:1 like that cam needs]. Would go 10:1 but too many stations cheat and sell reg gas as premium. Plan to have valve reliefs cut in pistons if needed when balancing. The Dynamic 9.5 works good on street too? Mostly worried about TQ slipping at highway speeds.
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#9
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With 3.91:1 gears and 27" tall tires I had no slippage problems with the 10" converter (and my car + driver weight is 4,150 lbs.)
This last year I put the stock 3.23:1 gears in and had some noticable slippage when driving under 65 MPH, but it was not too bad. I would like to try a 3.55:1 ratio for a good ballance between highway driving and good track ETs. |
#10
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The 383/400's have a relatively short stroke: 3.38". This is on par with a lot of small blocks, which means it likes to rev, and it will rev readily. With main studs and SPS rod bolts, you should be okay. You could have the rods shot-peened for a little added insurance if you're inclined to spend the money. Make sure you get new valve springs and at least pocket port the heads with templates. If you can't go for Edlebrocks, that is. With that .509 in a 383, you'll have to rev to make it work. Short strokes don't make torque like a long stroke. That 340 converter is the same as used in 383 Road Runners/Super Bees and the Hemis. It's better than stock but not optimum. I like Dynamic- hear nothing but good about them.
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#11
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We run the 509 in a +.030 440 and IMO its a poor choice for you 383.Go back to the Hughs( max) 230/238 and youll be much happier.The cam will run sronger with less compression and be far more streetable.The 509 needs at least a 4000+ convertor which on the street is hard on the parts.The split pattern cam will also help with poor head flow #s if your using the iron heads.Smaller cams always work better in daily drivers or less than full blown race cars.
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#12
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This belongs here and not there, if u know what I mean!
I also checked DC's maximum RPM with ALL OUT RACE OILING SYSTEM: 383/400= 6800-7400 RPM! 440's to 6800, 440 6bbl to 7000 and Hemi's to 8000rpm. I knew this guy with a max wedge who bragged he could turn 7500rpm. So I wanted to see what my 6pak (shortblock-single 3310 on a Torker) with polished (by me) and shot peened rods would do. Around 7200rpm I decided I didn't want to find out the hard way. Incidently, have this formula for Peak Torque vs. Header Diameter from the "Performance Professor(?)" rpm= cross section x 88200 / cyl volume. So if those 1 7/8's are thick walled ~.040 (per side), peak torque, as affected by the header, will be about 4650 RPM. Just how this might be useful to anyone, I really don't have a clue. I was gonna say take back the .509 and go Hughes. At least the Rhoads will help. |
#13
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Stick with the smaller cam- I use the 484 bumpstick in mine. 383's do not act the same as 440's and will stall stock ports with the 509. at the rpms your talking about. No need to run the bigger valves either, just a good porting , 3 angle and BACKCUT the valves to remove that lip, that will help a ton on the low lift velocities. Oiling system- Open it up to HEMI specs ( check the DC bible on how this is done) I bought a hemi pickup and shortend and rethreaded it to fit the stock pan depth. Hemi is deeper. Use a HV oil pump with full groove mains and ARP studs and ARP wave loc rod bolts- windage tray. I spin mine to 6g all the time with no worrys. Although it is above where the cam is making power. Nitrous- Forged pistons- molly rings no exceptions and have something in there that will NOT allow it to turn on under 3000 rpm at full throttle. That is how most people blow the motor. Too much stress at low RPMS is the killer. Headers I can't help with- I still run the Factory HP manifolds. I just prefer the stock look.
Good Luck |
#14
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how radical can you build 383 still drive on street?
Thanks Guys I knew the 509 cam was big for the 383.I bought it because I like the sound of a big cam at idle,had the Rhoads lifters. I'll sell the headers, cams and Rhoads lifters. Seen a dyno sheet for a very radical setup 383.It made less h.p. at higher rpm than at it's h.p.peak at 5500 rpm. Better to have it more streetable and closer to where the 383 makes power. I do want to make as much power as I can though! Can anyone give me the power bands and horse power using the hughes 230/238 or the Mopar .484/284 cams? How do they sound at idle? The 340 converter might work better with these cams too!
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#15
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Hughes has that RPM Range at their site:
http://www.hughesengines.com/ Phone call to them would work better. One of the magazines did a buildup recently, I think a 400. You have to appreciate the rpm capability of the 383, because it doesn't have the cubes or the stroke to make big bottom end torque. |
#16
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get desktop dyno !!!!
I have desktop dyno & desktop dragstrip & there pretty accurate if you key in all the right info..i did a stock 383 setup..cam specs & all & came up with about same hp advertised figures as stock..so then i went a building..different combos...ill have to look but i made one cam that was absolutly awesome.it out did all other shelf cams.....it was a solid lift too & i was comparing to other solids & hydralics also...im going solid definitly..just so much more to be gained there & why not...buddy of mine uns one & checks his adjustments about every 3 months & is still right on..only have to check all the time if your a all out consistent racer...solids are in everyday cars & go 30k miles before re adjusting..so why not. Im determined to make my 383 run awesome without throwing it away for a 440..i want to say it is the original 383 in it
Brian |
#17
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national, what were the cam specs you used in desktop dyno?
Also, do you mean a solid flat tappet cam or a solid roller cam. If your into performance and don't mind the ticking noise, there is really no problem with running a solid cam. My biggest complaint is with the ticking noise on a true "street" car that is driven long distances. My 451 stroker has a solid roller cam, a big,loud, 250 GPH fuel pump, and a pretty loud 3" exhaust system. The car is a blast to race and take on drives that are usually less than an hour long, but on long drives the noise really can get annoying, expecially with the 3.91:1+ gears turning 3,500+ RPM on the highway. My 360 that I just built is much milider, uses a mild 0.489"/0.501" lift hydraulic cam, a HV mechanical fuel pump and the large case 2.5" Dynomax "Hemi" superturbo mufflers. This engine dosen't make near the power, but it is a nice "street" engine that is fairly quiet and gets better gas mialage. |
#18
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Jim..
Ill have to find my paperwork on the cam i had picked out.comp went down at home with my saved info in it..but i have it wrote down also.. Im use to the ticking sound..fuel injected cars make as much clicking noise to me..the injectors clicking that is..i was talking about a flat tappet solid also.. We are running a solid lift roller now in a small block chevy with 2 1/2 exhaust out the rear & can hardly hear the ticking on it..some are worse though i agree..never had a solid in a BB chrysler but mone is like all my other cars ive had..nothing but a toy..but the lexus my wife drives everyday has a solid(couldnt hardly believe it) can hear then click a lil too....probably close tolerances than most also..our chevy is .23..what does yours gap at? how does your car run on the strip? any times ? sounds like a really strong car.. What kind of car is the 451 in ? Brian |
#19
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Here is the weird part about my engine.
It seems the valve lash increases as the engine gets hotter. I think this is because the Aluminum heads "grow" and maybe the aluminum rockers too? With the engine cold, I set the valve lash to 0.016" Intake and 0.018" Exhaust, and the ticking is not too loud unless the engine gets around 200 degrees (I need a new radiator.) Right now the most annoying sound is the Mallory 250 GPH fuel pump, which is still quieter than the Holley or Aeromotive pumps that are on my friends cars. Two years ago, I even had dual 3.5" exhausts with the Dynomax Race Magnum mufflers that dumped at the rear axle! That was really loud. The 3" TTI system is much better, exiting out the back with the full size mufflers. It is not quiet, but way better than before, and best of all it did not hurt performance at all The engine is in a 1971 Charger. If your really intrested, just look for other posts of mine. I have been on here alot the last few days since I'm stuck at work but don't have any actual work to do right now |
#20
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My 72 383 Dart is mostly stock with bolt on pieces and the MP .484 cam on a 104 centerline! It has a nice little lope in the idle and runs and drives great! Has run 12.41 at 110 with an Edelbrock Torker and a TA tight 3000 10" convertor and I honestly think it could get very close to high 11,s with more convertor and the Edelbrock Performer RPM intake as I plan to try the Preformer RPM this year! You can see the setup at www.bigblockdart.com and its a street car as I drive it 90 miles round trip to the track ! Ron
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#21
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That's impessive..
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#22
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Well you said radical so
Get a 440 crank cut journals to fit 383 mains do it tapered cut and use radiused bearings have crank nitrided (cutting it will remove the nitriding) Bore block .040 over the spec of a 400 which is 4.380. Install Kieth BLack KB 215 pistons. They arent to expensive either For rings get .060 over 440 rings (yes really) Use standard length forged 400 rods Take your 906 heads Install hardened seats Exhaust valves 2.14 and intake 1.81 inches Get a cam with 485 lift duration in the range of 280-284 You now have a 451 cube monster And its lighter than the 440 and revs higher, and makes more power PS a 383 with a 440 crank cut to fit and no other changes is 426 cubic and also makes mad power |
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