Getting started

[Otherguy]

I'm thinking about getting started in dirt track racing. The local track where I'd be running most of the time is a 1/4 mile high banked oval. Just let me get this straight: I have a limited budget. What kind of car should I be looking for? Also how much can I expect to spend to get started? I have a line on a rebuilt 360 and 727 for $300, so I guess that would be a start right?


Oh yeah, I would be running in the street stock class.

Thanks.

[cageman]

Well Ive raced against some of the guys that you will race against and I know what Ive got and how I did so id say if you want to beat Myron Shockert? or the yellow number 11 Keller you had better have 350 plus hp. Now if you talk to a chevy guy he will tell you a dollar amount for that much power but it is cheaper to get that power out of a dodge. A well handling car would be helpful and a car that will finish, like from car to car contact and the track. My buddy taped his races their and the track is different every week he was there. He was always battling with the 01 of Myron S. It looked like they were the fast ones and the other 7 were close together with a lot of Crashing.
I hope I dont sound negative but my knowledge might get you ahead of the game by already knowing the competition.

Are they going Wissota again this year?

Another plus is that you can practice at the track any time you want so use that to your benefit.

You will have to have at least a 110 inch wheelbase, That will be like a swinger or dart sport from 70 and up. I had an 88 Gran fury that handled good but I did not lighten the car enough to get rear % in streets (bombers were 3600#) so I spun alot goin down the straights in Mandan. I also had 3 year old Hoosiers too and that didnt help but i realized that I should keep racing bombers as I could afford to be competative with my car (which is for sale FYI)

[Otherguy]

okay, I know this is gonna be asking a lot, but...
What should I do for the motor. The one I listed above have been bore .030 over, has aluminum flat top pistons, heads shaved .010 and a speedpro (I havn't got the slightest clue what the specs are, but it does have a lopey idle). He is also throwing in a MP cam 292 dur .509 lift, new.
Whether or not this is usable, I don't know.
As far as getting the car, there is a guy about a half hour from here that has about 200 old mopars in a field (this is what I'm told by my friends, I've never actually been there) and they're all for sale.
Thanks for the help.

[sanborn]

Welcome "Otherguy", can't help you much on your car but couldn't help noticing your home town. Worked there several years ago setting up a factory out on the reservation. Sure was awfully cold in January but learned about ice fishing. Welcome!

[Rich33]

I don't want to sound negative, Otherguy, but what kind of budget are we talking about? To build a competitive Wissota street stock you'd better figure in at least a 5,000 dollar budget. I don't want to scare you off, but it adds up really quick. If you can't afford that much (or even more), consider running in a factory stock bomber type class.

Consider just the tire and wheel issue for a minute. Wissota street stocks require a Hoosier tire and a certified Wissota wheel. That means you can't scrounge the junkyard for these parts. You need to figure in around 1000 bucks just for the tire/wheel budget. If you go cheap and borrow take offs, you're already at a huge disadvantage. Cageman already alluded to that.

Your engine may be fine as-is. But, that isn't the area you should be concentrating on. The chassis is. A good roll cage will cost you a few hundred at least. Good safety equipment i.e. fuel cell, seat, harness, net, helment, suit, gloves will run you at least 700.

You need to get the right car, a Dart/Dart Sport with a 110" wheel base would be a good start. Then, you must get good springs and shocks to even have a shot at these guys. Allow 600 dollars for that. New bushings another 100. Steering shaft, ujoints, heims, quickener, figure 300. Rework the brakes, porportioning valve, lines, shoes, pads, another 200 or so.

You need a good Ford Nine inch with the right gears. You need all of the odds and ends, spare parts, consumables, etc. It can run into some money.

I don't want to scare you off from this sport. But, if you try to put together something without the minimum safe, competitive parts you will have trouble, get discouraged quick, and quit. I don't want that.

If you're ready to do all that, then go for it! But, please, get the chassis done first and done right. If you get through the corners fast it'll look as though you have 400 ponies under the hood when you probably don't.

[cageman]

Ok you got me sold, where is this field of dreams located at. I have a guy thats from Devils Lake help me once in a while, he could show me the way!
Yeah we dont want to sound negative it is just that it is a costly venture to start racing in a class like that. If you get burnt out right away it would not be good. But then again there has been a few people that started young and had financial backing to race sprints as there first class, Just look at Donny Schatz from minot.
Any ways welcome to the board and feel free to ask anything, These guys know there circle track.

[David D]

Just wanted to point out for the sake of argument the Dart Sport rides on a 108" wheelbase as opposed to the Dart Swinger which rides on 111" wheelbase. That's all, I'll go away now.

[RamHead]

Otherguy,
Hope that your dreams are not crushed! The building and maintaining of a race car is expensive. The cageman gave the advice as to start maybe in a bomer div. This is good advice! If you can find a rolling chasis in good condition you can save some money. The 360 you are talking about is a good deal. You will need to rebuild it for better oiling and such to where it will stay together. But, the bottom line is if you want to race, (RACE)! Get behind a safely built cage and drive, seat time is what you really should be concerned with no-matter what class your budget will allow! Worry about the win's in the future.

RamHead

[cageman]

As for the Dart sport There is one a block away from my shop and it indeed is 110 and the swinger too is 110, Ive read a few different wheelbases on these cars so I just take out a tape and measure it out andwrite it down in my little notebook

[jelsr]

Ran a Dart Sport in the Hobby Stock class back in the 80's, it was IMCA then and the rules were 110 WB. The car was 108 but I used the long front rear spring hangers for the B bodies. Had several protest, but it was legal that way. The Sport was a Duster W/Dart Badges. Mine was a '74 I believe, and that terrible green that was popular then with the white stripe setup.

[Otherguy]

Thanks for all the input guys. I really appreciate it. I had talked to a kid I go to school with who runs a street stock Gutless and he told me I could get started for about 4000 clams, thats why i said I wanted to run street stock. But it sounds like its gonna cost me more, so we'll see. If anything, this year I'll probably have to run bombers. But, thanks for all the info!

[FURY 66]

The bright side is that once you get every thing you need,the following year you can spend the money on a faster ride,just go out and get the seat time with what you can afford,but don't skimp on the safety.this was my first year and have the only mopar(at the track) in a purestock class(fifth ave)I got fifth in the points and rookie of the year.once you start your hooked, the rush is awesome.you won't beleive how much you have to learn.have fun

[4L Mopar]

My first season was only about 2/3rds of a season. Had a '72 Plymouth Satellite that was a "hand-me-down" from my uncle. jelsr is my dad and was the one that got my uncle started in this silly hobby. Had a bone stock 440, other than connecting rod bolts and a Mopar Performance cam (484 lift 284 duration) with dished 8.5:1 pistons. For a sled that was up against some high dollar Chevy's, I don't think I did too bad. I had two fourth place feature finishes and one second place finish (I even managed to win a couple of heat races). In addition to the safety features mentioned (I didn't see neck brace listed, but after rolling my car at the end of last season, I HIGHLY recommend one), I also recommend a "reverse pattern valve body" for the tranny. We bought a Cheetah, and it works really well. One thing we later learned is to find a torque converter out of a 360 4x4 pickup for a 727 tranny. Smaller diameter (less rotating weight), and it has the same effect of a stall converter. Monroe makes some very good racing shocks that you can pass off as 3/4 ton pickup shocks (as long as you remember to cut the "gators" off), and if you're concerned.....Spray paint them black and put a parts house sticker on them somewhere. Hope at least some of this helps......

James

[DYNO360]

4LMOPAR I have thought that the reverse pattern valve body would be an advantage, but the local guys say it is not necessary. What did you like about it? I am assuming that it is also a manual valve body, meaning it won't shift until you move the shift lever. Let us know what you liked.

[4L Mopar]

I wouldn't say it was "necessary." I work at an area feedlot and program computers in my spare time......I know almost nothing about mechanics. My dad does all the mechanic stuff......I tear it up.....He fixes it!!!!! It is a manual valve body, it has no automatic features. From what I understand, it jacks the pressures up and makes an almost bullet proof transmission indestructable. It eliminates the throttle valve, which is a plus. I do recommend running a tranny cooler also. My uncle Joe ran a short piece of hose from the outlet to the inlet and ran a full season without a problem, but dad recommended one. We just took an old air conditioner condenser (60's or 70's) and wire-tied it to the roll cage behind where the passenger seat used to be and ran the inlet and outlet to it. I don't think the tranny temp ever got above 170 just with the air through the cab and no fan. Conditions like this will lend longevity to your investment, which is what Chrysler products are all about. I'll bore you with an aside that has almost nothing to do with racing.....I have a friend that runs demolition derby cars. Dad has always said that a Chrysler will run longer without water than a Chevy will with. He destroyed his radiator in the prelim's and ran the feature with no water in the block. He finished third, and that was only because a motor mount broke and the throttle stuck wide open....He shut the motor off and put it in the demo car he ran for the next year!!!!

[jelsr]

Dyno360,
The main advantage is the elimination of the throttle valve. Operating pressures are no longer dependant on throttle position which greatly enhances longevity. I run at tracks where they bring you around to the green at a crawl and it's nice to be able to use 2nd without worring about the trans doing something on it's own. With the reverse pattern when you hit 3rd after a 2nd gear start you don't worry about going to far cause high is at the end of travel. Don't have to look or anything, just give it a yank and you can concentrate on the turkeys around you. It's cheap and efficient.