Ignition help

[ROCKHOPPER]

I have two Ramchargers that I want to get rid of the ECU units and go with eather a MSD, a Mallery, Jacobsen, or Crane Which would be the best for my Pumped 360 and my Mild Pumped 318? Thanks for the Help

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ROCKHOPPER
President
Sport-N-Utes 4X4 Club
Salt Lake City Utah.
rockenram82@hotmail.com

[ROCKHOPPER]

Come on guys I need some input, I have never purchased one of these units I do currently have the crome ECM.

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ROCKHOPPER
President
Sport-N-Utes 4X4 Club
Salt Lake City Utah.
rockenram82@hotmail.com

[Joe Mad 73]

Rock
I have seen this question come up a lot and all I can tell you is that it's a mixed bag. Some people likes MSD and some likes crane, etc. etc. Sounds like to me that most of the Ign sys out there are good. But one thing I picked up on is if you have the money go with Jacobsen. I can't say first hand, this is just what I saw in other post.

[djswwg]

Rockhopper, I've personally never seen a bad after market ign. system, but I do know 2 guys who wont buy MSD boxes because moisture gets inside and shorts 'em out. I use Jacobs on my 2 cars and have sold many of their boxes and probably more than 1000 wire sets over the past several years. From my experience and that of my friends and customers they are among the very best. They also have really good rev limiters, timing controls, and other automotive electronic devices. Hope this helps..djs

[PatrickT]

I believe that unless you're going to be turning big RPM's, like 6000+, you don't need a multiple spark ignition box. For your type of application I would use an MP orange box. If it does go bad (unlikely) and leaves you on the side of the road, it's easy to replace it with a standard ECU unit, assuming you keep the old wiring. I would add a MP vacuum ditributor and aftermarket coil for enhanced performance.

[djswwg]

I disagree (most respectfully )with Patrick T. An upgraded ignition will help improve a lot of things about your engine. Better spark quality gives easier starting, improved fuel economy, better tork, cleaner plugs, oil stays cleaner longer, reduces NOx and CO2 emissions-especially in higher compression over rich engines. These events happen at all rpm ranges and throttle openings. Stop and think for a minute, if the factory always put the best of everything in their cars, there would be no need for aftermarket tires, shocks, ignitions, etc. I've proved this many times over the years to a lot of sceptical customers.......djs

[djswwg]

Oh and one more thing, multi-spark systems only provide multiple sparks each power stroke up to about 3000-3500 rpm. After that it's one spark/power stroke...djs

[Mopar_Mudder]

My vote is for Jacobs, use it and love it!!

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Mopar_Mudder
--CLICK HERE FOR MY TRUCK PAGE--
1983 Dodge W350 4x4, Reg Cab, Long Box
Dana 60's (4.88 gears), 38.5 Swamper SX's, 205 Trans Case
ARB Lockers Front and Back
440 , .030 over, 10.0:1, Ported 346 heads, 2.14/1.81 Valves
285/285 .562/.562 lift solid roller cam

[rumblefish360]

I hav* ha* "3" MS* b*x*s. *h*y hav* a** b**k*n **wn @ 1 p*in* ** an**h**. A** w*** *n*** wa*an*y an* fix**/**p*a*** q*i*k*y. I wi** n** *****n ** *h*m a*ain.
I hav* ins*a**** a Ja**bs sys**m. I* is by fa* b***** *han *h* MS*. N* p**b**ms wi*h *h* *ni* sin** *wnin* i* f** 3 y*a*s.
Ins*a**** *n a Hy*n*ia *x***, i* in***as** mp*'s f**m 37 ** 41+ *n av*. (N*x* is a K&N an* mayb* a m*ff***. (h* h* h*)
*h* M**i*i spa*k *ni*s a** *x*****n* f** any*hin*. If *as mp* is *h* *h***h*, i* w**ks! M*s* *n*'s ** n** spin *v** 3000*pm's *n *h* hi-way.
*h* **an** b*x *an n** **mp*** wi*h *h*s* *ni*s *n a mp* **v**. *h*y sh**** b* *h***h* *f as *h* 1s* *p**a** *v** p*in*s an* 1s* **n**a*i*n ***'s. I hav* ha* min* w**kin* f** 10y*s. n*w wi*h N** a **mp*ain*&**;SP?&**;

[ROCKHOPPER]

Thanks for all the help I really appreciate it.

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ROCKHOPPER
President
Sport-N-Utes 4X4 Club
Salt Lake City Utah.
rockenram82@hotmail.com

[djswwg]

Rumblefish360, what happened to your last post? It looks like hh74++5634mdjhdkjs ksm,,s.dfj siejrjndk; but maybe I'm wrong about that too!!!!!!!!!!! LOL djs

[Chargerchuck]

Just to add my $.02, I just went from a stock electronic ignition w/silver box to a complete MSD system and I noticed the difference across the whole power band. definitely more responsive. I haven't heard anything about them shorting out in damp weather (CA is generally pretty dry as is Salt Lake, correct?)Most of the guys out here who I consider Mopar experts swear by them.

[dwayne penner]

If you are worried about keeping the ignition box dry, you can always mount it inside the passenger compartment ie under the dash

[rumblefish360]

djswwg;

I don't know, I'll type it again for all that don't have a **** Tracy decoder ring handy. Here gos nothin....

I have had "3" MSD box's that all have broken down @ 1 point or another. All were under warranty and fixed / replaced quickly.
I will not return to them again.
I have installed a Jacobs system. It is by far better than the MSD. No problems with the unit since running it for 3yrs.
Installed in a hyundia Excell, it increased mpg's from 37 to 41 mpg's on average. (next is a K&N and muffler he he he)
The muliti spark units are excellent for anything.

After that I can't remember or figure out what I wrote. So from here on I wing it to completion and add to it...Thanks djs.

The next thing I could figure out in part was my testament to the orange box. I have had one running for 10 yrs. Works great. The multi spark box's are best when a eng. is spinning slow. Like under 3000 rpm's. Thats when the manufacture says it drops off to a single duration spark. According to MSD, it's still a spark that will last 20 degrees of crank rotation.
Dwayne penner;

Once, after a ***** storm came our way, the box that was mounted on the fire wall had gotten drenched. It cut out on the way home. After geting the same exact box back from MSD, it shorted out again after a carwash trip. Made me mad!! That was the first box. Keep them dry! (just incase it should rain like the devil by you)

[This message has been edited by rumblefish360 (edited January 31, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by rumblefish360 (edited January 31, 2001).]

[rumblefish360]

For some reason , The following post did not want to include these words;

The name "**** " as in Tracy & the word "***** ".
Why I don't know. After trying to edit the text twice, I have given up. And decided to type this instead.

[rumblefish360]

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO this computer thinks it funny HUH?


These words typed downward are
supposed to be in the following
D typed text.
I
C
K
N Try not to laugh to hard. They
A only appear to be out of context.
S
T
Y

[djswwg]

Hey Rumble, thanks for clearing this up for me. I've been sitting here LMAO reading your latest posts!!!!!!! And Dwayne Penner, although mounting the MSD's in the passenger area seems like a logical solution, I know 1 guy who tried that but in the summer there was not enough airflow over the unit to cool it and it failed as well. Anyone else have trouble with MSD, or are these isolated incidents? : djs

[pishta]

I have an older MSD box, a 6100 I think and I swear its only giving me one spark. I put a timing light on my buddies all MSD 351C and I saw 6 little damper marks at idle, it was wild! Same light on my MP/MSD, only one and it moved a bit (sloppy dist drive slot?) It still starts better than my ECU though. I might disect it and see what makes it tick, it cant be that serious in there! Hey, a reverse engineered MSD clone for $10 bucks, any buyers??

[ROCKHOPPER]

Ok next question. The Jacobs system (along with the MSD) don't come with a Dist. do I run a stock one or should I buy a new one, and if so which one do I buy.

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ROCKHOPPER
President
Sport-N-Utes 4X4 Club
Salt Lake City Utah.
rockenram82@hotmail.com

[djswwg]

You can use any chrysler dist. that fits your engine size. Take it apart and check the following items. Shaft not bent, bushings not worn and shaft not worn where it rides on the bushings. Buy a mopar perf unit if you can't find a good used one, but there should be lots around. Recurve the advance to suit your engine. Make sure the reluctor and pick up are not damaged (chipped teeth, etc.) Set the reluctor gap at .008", and check the gap at EVERY tooth to be sure none are to close (contact at high rpm) or to far away (misfire, especially at higher rpm's). Oh ya, use a non-magnetic feeler gauge (brass-all Mopar guys have one!)Metal ones don't hurt anything, but you get a better "feel" without the magnetic "pull" of the metal ones. If you can't get consistent gaps at all reluctor teeth you have a bent shaft or poorly made reluctor. You can spend looonnngggg money on fancy billet units and they work great, but up to 6500 rpm (and usually more) a stock unit in good shape will do everything you need and then some. One more thing, if shaft up and down movement is more than ten to twelve thou. shim it till there is only 5 to 8 thou. Hope this helps. And one more thing, re-assemble the dist. with a high quality silicone grease on the shaft where it rides in the bushings. Hope this helps you......djs

[Chargerchuck]

If you can afford the $ & you are thinking about going with an MSD system I would replace the factory distributor with an MSD pro-billet unit. I had a fairly new factory electronic distributor, but the MSD unit makes the car more responsive. Granted, I don't know how much of a difference the distributor alone made compared to the combination of all of the MSD components. Maybe someone out there did an incremental approach to upgrading their ignition & can add their $.02. Those distributors aren't cheap, though, so I would weigh the cost of the distributor against the expense of rebuilding your existing unit or buying a rebuilt distributor from a parts shop.

[ROCKHOPPER]

The Dist. I have to use in the truck now is a rebuild from Napa if I check all the specs on this unit to use for now till more money is in, should I recurve it or leave it alone? My 360 is running 10.5 comp with KB 190 pistons 6.123 c to c rods, 72 cc heads, a quinch dome height of .050 a MP Purple cam with 450/455 lift with a 50deg overlap and 268/272 duration with a 110 centerline, advanced 1 deg. with the matching valve spring package. It is balanced to 1.5 grms and I am using a MP M1 duel plane intake. Hooked to a 727 trans and stall conv. with 4:10 gears, lockers and 33" tires. I tried to recurve the dist when I was running my 318 But due to the fact that I have never done it before I don't know which springs to use or what.

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ROCKHOPPER
President
Sport-N-Utes 4X4 Club
Salt Lake City Utah.
rockenram82@hotmail.com

[djswwg]

Try using lighter springs to quicken the rate at which the spark advance occurs. The more advance earlier the better. If it pings and you are using good gas back up to a heavier spring. Trial and error is required. BTW the cam seems a bit small. I'd go somewhere around 480 lift with that much compression, should make a lot more power.djs

[ROCKHOPPER]

I want to get as much power as possible without too much lope on the motor, it needs to idle easy to run on the trails in Moab for slow and easy climbs. does anyone else think I need more cam?

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ROCKHOPPER
President
Sport-N-Utes 4X4 Club
Salt Lake City Utah.
rockenram82@hotmail.com

[djswwg]

Rockhopper, a 280 duration cam won't be to lumpy with the engine you have. Set the idle in gear a about 750-800 rpm. With a loose converter it should work fine. After 290 or so cam duration idle quality takes a dive, especially in the smaller engines. djs