Wild Idea---free Turbo!

[chrisj0123]

Ok...My idea has probly alreay been thought of but what the hell here goes:

First take two intakes sticking out of the car on both sides of the car... you choose the placment for your mental image. now the intakes run to a turbine or set of turbines that push into the same tube. part of the problem with ram air is that the air can only be compressed so much before it over flows! if the air is allowed to just run through like the turbine on a turbo charger runs exhaust gasses through. and then out of the back of the car or from underneath...

Ok.. now this turbine of course pumps into the engine just like a regular turbo charger without having to concer with to much heat being built up by the exhaust the faster you go the more the turbine spins... just like a turbo charger that hooks onto the exhaust system........ but no turbo lag!...

ok now I'm ready for the replys either yeah cool try it or ... the realistic reasons why you don't think it will work or just why it won't work period!

chris

[swansong]

well first of all there would be turbo lag and more so than in a turbo car because you would have to be moving at a decent speed tp push air through the turbines. and there you would have problems getting enough forced air to turn the turbines...even if you could create a scoop massive enough to collect enough air pressure to spin the turbines you still would have problems routing it because of a bottleneck effect it would overflow like you said.granted it might spin and give you a little forced air into the carbeurator i really doubt it would be worth the goofy looking scoop mounted in the position of your choice. turbos are a good idea. the system is sealed and the gasses only have one way to go...through the turbines. good idea though.

[Checkmate]

This would work fine...until you needed boost. It takes alot more than just wind to spin the turbines while you are creating boost. However, if you made a turbine about 2 feet in diameter and put your setup on the roof and got it up to 50, this may be worth 30 hp.

[dewme5]

even high effiency turbos run in the 1.1:1 -1.5:1 range. so, for every pound of boost, there is 1.1psi built up in your headers waiting to push thru the turbine side of the turbo. with your idea, you could vastly change the compressor/turbine sizes though. I'm guessing that you could use a standard compressor wheel for something like a t-03, but the turbine wheel would have to be something off of one HUGE engine (something that drives those CAT 150 cu.yd. dump trucks, or even some ventilation turbos.) Then, the pressure ratio could be over come with leverage. but then you have the problem... just how fast do you have to go to get that impeller wheel spinning 100,000 rpm?? Then.. you get the problem of not having any boost until you are going 90mph.. boost is irrelevant to rpm. your wastgate would have to be huge to prevent you from blowing anything up.. (what would a gust of wind do?? pressure spike.???)

all of a sudden, it's looking like a car with paddlewheels hanging off off the side.

it is an interesting concept though. until you try to stop.. let off of the throttle, and you still have 20psi pushing into your engine at 150mph... that's when the rush starts to happen.!@

[Checkmate]

How about this, forget your idea with wind and use a belt to spin the turbine. No heat and fully controlled......Oh wait, isn't that called a supercharger.

[dewme5]

you could do that, but why not keep it exhaust driven, and keep the extra power too? not to mention boost when you want it.. not way high in the rpm's??

[Rattlebox]

Why not just use a big a$s electric air compressor?

[Checkmate]

Hey theres's another idea, compressed air. Hey let's up the combustion and use compressed oxygen.

[dewme5]

I just hate to be the bearer of bad news.. pure 02 is highly explosive. sure, that's great for power. but when you mix oxygen and a petroleum product (such as gas), it goes boom. sooo.. that's why it's mixed with nitrogen to make nitrous..

and the big electric motor... you would have to have alot of batteries, or one heck of a charging system...

keep thinking though. some aussie guy designed a new style engine, and is working with carol shelby on it now. the pistons rotate, and the cam is stationary.. weird, but it works. it's like 1.9L, and they have only gone to 600rpm with it so far, but at 600rpm it made something like 61hp, and 200 ft.lb.

not to mention the rotary valve head.

[chrisj0123]

Well I have to agree with dewme5 the 0² would cause a rather nasty boom in the engine compartment .... and as for the electric compressor it is impractical would draw to much power... would have to be an extremly effecient electic motor and I don't think anyone makes one effecient and capable of moving fast enough.

check out My perfect Idea post and tell me what you think... and as for the problem with the turbo lag..simple make a small gate in the tube that stays open allowing air to be sucked from the outside and when the compression from the turbine gets High enough it would close the gate and push the compressed air into the proper chamber. and as for the problem with slowing down...DEWME... create a mechanism that would close the intakes to the turbine. It could be just closing the intakes or something else.. use your imagination>

chri

[Rattlebox]

Here's a source for your DC Motor and Batteries
www.killacycle.com
heck forget the forced induction, howbout hybrid...
the battery pack is good for 312VDC and averages 400 Amps...
that's 167.3hp you only have to add 132 lbs to your vehicle hehehe

[Checkmate]

Okay, now you guys are getting a little to serious , I was joking about the oxygen. That's why I wrote "let's up the combustion". Did you guys take any of these posts past the first one seriously?? It's a good thing I didn't suggest the hamster driven turbo.

[jelsr]

Definitely a "giggle" post! Technical note, oxygen is not explosive, won't even burn.

[dewme5]

jelsr do a little home experiment.. take pure o2, and toss some oil into the mix, or gas, or grease.. and tell me it wont explode after that.

[jelsr]

dewme5,
What are the petroleum products for? I'll let you try an experiment. Turn on the oxygen, but not the acetylene, on an oxy/acet torch and try to light it. Oxygen won't burn. I believe the warning says
"Vigorously accelerates combustion" Won't burn by itself though, needs some sort of fuel. Going the other direction, fuel will not burn without oxygen.

[Checkmate]

Now that I think about it you are right, fire needs a fuel AND oxygen to burn. Oxygen is in the air, but in it's pure form it really speeds up the burning process, but is not the fuel.

[dwayne penner]

jelsr & dewme5

you are both right and both wrong. oxygen by itself will not burn. the problem is that there is allways (in the real world) something else that will. oxygen will accelerate that. and how. boom.

I have heard of a guy running some chevy piece of trash on oxygen. could be myth, you decide. How I heard he did it, was he was not running pure o2 but bleeding some in through a metered orfice into his air box. When he blew up his engine he went and got a wrecking yard $100 engine, when he blew that up he went and got a wrecking yard $100 engine....

[dewme5]

I'm not arguing that fact at all. next time you go get your bottles filled, ask them. I'm a hard hat diver by trade. navy diver before that. have you ever heard of the term "o2 safe"? that's something being free of petroleum products.

call a local hospital and ask them.

call a hyperbaric chamber and ask them.

here's 2 links to back up my statements.

http://www.oxyedge-chum.com/safety.htm

http://www.hoopersupply.com/msds/oxygen.htm

oxygen is an oxidizer which will cause normal items that will burn (such as gas and oil) to burn VIOLENTLY (read explode) when mixed with more then approx 25% oxygen. some materials will burn in pure oxygen which are nonflammable in air.

I'm not assuming when i tell you this. I understand what I'm talking about, beyond my home garage.

[speedfreak]

ok what about botled air,say from your air compressor,or running pure oxygen like a nitro set up????

[dewme5]

compressed air, wouldn't be a problems really. to a point anyway. just need such a volume of it! turbos, superchargers, and blowers are all air compressors, more of the high cfm low pressure type. (800cfm at 15psi)
unlike normal compressors which are low cfm and high pressure (9cfm at 110psi)

so.. you would have to have a big volume tank that would supply 800cfm insead of 9cfm. so instead of the air compressor hookup, you would need a 1-1/2" tube.

bolting on a turbo is just going to be much easier. and a supercharger easier still.

[road chicken]

Same thing on both posts Chris,

If your trying to move air through a typical sized turbo- there just isn't enought ram air to drive it and make it " worth" the result your looking for. I mean the air intake size would have to be so big it would out weigh any advantage. What I could see this winding up as is a engine cowling off a 737 strapped to the roof- tapering down to a input tube to twin turbos in the trunk. One drawing exhaust out and the other feeding the intake through a long tube,( put fins on it ya got an intercooler to boot). Work the the exhaust out put through a system similar to a paxton super charger manifold, ( flap valves) and handle the intake per a waste gate. Then wind up with 13 city and 5 hwy mpg.
But I'll say this- it would damn sure get my attention- your neighbors too. Good idea, just not worth the hassle. Your trying to do this for a quiter car, not to cut up the car for bigger exhaust pipes- but for this solution to work- these would be sacrificed.

[jelsr]

dewme5,
Not questioning the affect on anything flamable, it is an accelerant. It is not, however, termed flamable by itself. It causes anything flamable to burn at an accelerated rate,but is not in the same category as flamable.

[5th_Ave_Sleeper]

First of all, to make fire (of any sort ie flame or explostion) you need THREE ingriedients: Fuel...........Oxegen..........HEAT!
You can take an oxegen line and stick it in a can of gas, alchohol, oil, whatever all it will do is blow bubbles. You must have some sort of ignition source.
Its been a while since I was in high school, but I did take three years of chemistry, and one of the things I remember from the first year is that "fire is like a triangle. Each side supports the other two." You need fuel, oxegen, and heat (ignition source) to make fire. take one away, poof the fire WILL go out or never start.
Second, the reason turbo's work like they do is cause of the amount of expelled gas being forced out of the cylinders. Focus on a one cyl non turbo for a moment. Intake opens piston goes south, and air/fuel fills the cyl. In a case of a 440, it fills with @55 cubic inches of naturally aspirated air/fuel. after the explosion(induced by an ignition source) the piston goes down, but because the fuel has burned, the fuel molecules have broken apart and made other gasses. now there is about 7 times the volume in that cylinder because of combustion. So when the exh. valve opens, 7 times more volume goes out through the ex than gets sucked in the intake.
I dont mean to sound condecending but that is how I understand all of this. If I am wrong the I apologise, but that is what I know.