Synthetic vs Conventional oil??

[whiteowl]

I realize that many threads have been posted on this subject matter but what I'm looking for with this thread is personal experience and reasons for switching to or from synthetic lubrication for your daily drivers. My confusion on this subject matter is that the nature of combustion engines.....oil will become dirty at the same rate no matter synthetic or conventional. The most damaging effect to a combustion engines is oil that has lost its ability to lubricate at a designated specification..loss of viscosity, weight and cleanliness. So my question....."does not synthetic oil get dirty just as fast as conventional and if so why then the advantage?". One would still have to swap out the dirty oil at the same intervals as before with conventional oil..ie 3000-3500miles. I believe that the lubricating ability of synthetic oils are better than those of conventional oils but if you have to swap them out at the same intervals...does synthetic oil really make that much difference to justify the expense? The one variable is the application at which this comparison is being made. In my case the application would be daily driving..Ram 360 5spd w/4.10 rear gear..personal use..no work duty. Like I said this thread has probably been beaten to death at another place and time so forgive me if so. I'm just curious as to what you fellow Mopig owners feel about this type of oil. Thank you in advance for any help offered!!

[451Mopar]

In my street car I seem to get a bit better gas mialage with the synthitic oil. The synthitic oil dose not contaminate the combustion chamber as bad reducing octane "creep". I think it is also extends the life of the O2 sensor, when the oil in the combustion chamber is burnt.
I also think that the synthic oil rejects moisture better and is more stable over tempature while doing a better job of suspending dirt to carry it to the filter. I think it is less likely to cabronize when subjected to high engine tempatures too.
I change the oil every 3,000 miles anyhow.

In the car I race, the film strength and tempature stability is nice to have too for extra protection. I think the synthitic oil "stores" better in the engine also. Since I usually only put around 1,000 miles a year on the '71 Charger, I only change the oil once a year.

[jelsr]

Not a chemist by any stretch, but have done some snooping on the matter. After refining, petroleum based oils still have "impurities". They are referred to as heavies and lights. The heavy stuff turns to solids and the light eventually vaporizes. Both leave a dark residue. Conventional oils also get dark from exposure to the hotter parts of the engine, piston crown for example. Synthetics, being man made, have molecules that are virtually identical to one another and are not as easily damaged by heat. The darkness of the oil is really not a good measure of it's condition, diesels being a good example. Synthetics have almost no viscosity change due to temperature so it will flow faster on cold starts where most engine wear is thought to occur.
Smokey Yunich was once quoted as saying " The best life insurance you can get for your engine is in a container marked Mobil One."

[atoetly]

I have been using redline products and would not go back to convention oils. Why spend thousands of dollars on and engine and then spend $1.50 for a quart of oil?

[Marvin S]

I use amsoil in almost everything i own. From diffs T-cases to crankcases.One thing i like about synthetics is that they dont burn off a higher temps like regular oils.This keeps them from leaveing sludge in the eng.Im not trying to sell amsoil but visit thier web site to learn more.Just do a search on it or try www.amsoil.com. Youre dodge ram already has synthetic in the nv4500 5spd thats in it. You dont have to change the syn near as much as conventional oils.

[Gary Pavlovich]

Whiteowl,

Synthetics dissipate heat more than a conventional motor oil. One caveat is they tend to find their "way out" by leaking easily through poorly sealed gaskets...due to very low viscosity ratings 5w-30...
They can offer increased mileage and measurable performance gains (Royal Purple, Mobil 1, AmsOil, Red Line...) in many applications. They have excellent lubricating qualities with a wide viscosity index.
Synthetics will not break down but like conventional oil, will become contaminated with acids (asphaltines...) from the combustion process. Regardless of the miles the time factor is a consideration for any lubricant; how long will the acids/contaminants present be allowed to attack the metals? Thus regular oil change intervals promote engine life and duability due to flushing these "acids" from the system.

My personal choice is to use a conventional motor oil (ie. 20/50 Valvoline Racing Oil) in my 340 Dart and stroker Plymouth supplemented with Prolong engine treatment. This will provide better suspension of the asphaltines/acids (cleaner oil) and provide unequaled lubricity through heat and wear reduction. It also removes the "dry start" problems in our cars that are only used/raced occasionally. Added benefits are the EPPL (extreme pressure property lubricant) which protects the cam/lifter lobes at 6500+rpm.
Anyhow, the choice is yours. I may experiment with a synthetic in the future but the conventional oil w/Prolong enhancement far exceeds anything else I have used/tested.
Take care,
Gary Pavlovich

[jelsr]

One should remember that multiple viscosity oils are artificialy created with VI improvers. These are synthetic products which cause the oil molecules to gather when hot to act as if thicker and conversely disperse when cold. Synthetics do not need "Viscosity Index" improvers. They will meet the requirements without them because they do not thin with higher temps and do not thicken with extreme cold. The "thinner" oil (synthetic) will increase HP and fuel economy simply because it is easier to "stir" than thicker conventional oils. Mobile One is now offering 0w30. How thin is zero?

[Ausydad]

Right or wrong, this is what I was taught by someone in the oil industry working for Valvoline where I worked for a year. Synthetic oils do have the ability to go a little longer than conventional oils because of dtergents and other additives involved. Great, not always. For motors and engines that have been built or rebuilt recently, this is good. For engines like mine that have loads of miles on the bottom end, they run the older seals and gaskets. The seals and stuff cannot take the detergents and additives in the synthetic oils and will leak and tear soon. Therefore, conventional is better. Maybe. Just as Mark Martin uses in his Nascar car, I like the Valvoline semi-synthetic Durablend to try and get the best of both. I'll have detergents to help me with cleaning and longevity, while not being too harsh on my rear main and such. Like I said, right or wrong, this is what I was taught.

[HOLESHOT]

I switched over a few years back and found the following consistancies,better starting hot or cold,less oil useage,cleaner plugs ,better mileage,less rod noise when I put my ear to the pan,less lifter noise,cleaner inside.I do however run say 2500 kms then add 1 liter and a new filter up to 10,000 kms therefore the cost is close to good standard oil.I run 5x30 with purolator filters only and have found a small et/mph gain on the track.

[Cordoba400]

Whiteowl, with regards to the synthetics becoming contaminated as quickly as conventional oils, I believe you are absoutley correct. I am no expert, but it is my understanding that you must compliment synthetics with high performance oil filters if you are to take full advantage of the synthetics extened life. Synthetics are supposed to "suspend" contaminants in the oil better than conventionals but you still need an oil filter that will continue to work past that magical 3000 mile interaval. I don't know if you have read "the myth of the 3000 mile oil change" but it is an interesting read. I got the URL off of Mopar Chat myself. Here it is.

http://www.carjunky.com/news/motor_oil_myths.shtml

Hope that helps some. Take care.

[70Ted]

I have heard that Prolong is useless. I have used Mobil 1 in all my older cars with no increased seal leakage.

[Gary Pavlovich]

Ted,

Use what you are comfortable with. People with poor seals have leaks with synthetic oil; it is no fault of the brand of synthetic oil.
Regarding Prolong, I have found all the claims valid and it works as intended in all my vehicles. If you care to give some specific complaint details, I would be happy to troubleshoot the apparent problems with said vehicles. E-mail me at glpavlovich@cox.net if you like. It is like vitamins, some people swear by them and others may swear at them because they are not healthier.
Take care and keep those Mopars running!
Gary Pavlovich

[George G. Leverette]

A couple of considerations, GM uses mobil 1 in the Corvette and D\C uses it in the Viper which are their top performance vehicles. I am using Mobil 1 synthetics in the engine, rear end and will fill the tranny when it returns from the paint shop. To ensure the benifits are realized from using the synthetics a Mobil 1 oil filter and K&N air filter are also used. A power steering fluid cooler and tranny oil cooler are also in the near future. Why all the fuss, driving at high speeds in very hot,windy sand blowing climate. Ford Motor Co DOT 3 is the brake fluid of choice and the Mopar power steering which could be synthetic? I am anticipating trouble free driving from my 72 340 Duster with recently overhauled Engine, tranny and rear end.

[70Ted]

as far as prolong how can you verify that it works?

[speedfreak]

all i know is i been using castrol full synthetic and stp adative and been haveing alot of condensation problems i have changed to moble1 full synthetic and lukis oil adative with wicks oil filter in my van it gets changed every 5-7 thousand,i put 34gs on the van this year alone,and has a total milage of 168300,just my 3 cent .....sory for the spelling it's one of my week points.

[jelsr]

A few years back when the government mandated "low sulphur" diesel fuel was being implemented, the "snake oil" sales people were really beating the bushes selling additives to save your fuel pumps from destruction. The only real problem turned out to be leaks. The low sulphur fuel had less "aromatics" which caused a small amount of shrinkage in seals, o-rings, etc. Synthetic oils are the same, lacking the aromatics that cause seals to swell slightly. When seals that are used to conventional oils are suddenly exposed to synthetics they begin to shrink slightly sometimes to the point of leaking.

[Gary Pavlovich]

Ted, Usually people add something to their engine (either hard parts or an internal additive as we are talking about) and never see/feel the difference but because someone told them it was good they bought it and never saw improvement.

However, in the case of using Prolong most improvements are seen/felt; for example, aside from the external testing I have done on this product (outside of the engine), my 340 Dart runs cooler as per the temp guage, my wife's 91 van had dramatic increase in throttle response/HP (probably released carbon from rings & valves thus increasing compression resulting in HP), got 23+miles p/gal. at 70mph w/6psgrs. w/front and rear air blasting going through the desert on an 85,000mile engine, best mpg when the van was new was 20.8 on a trip (Prolong mileage due to reduced friction/heat), guage shows motor runing cooler, motor ceased puffing blue smoke at cold startup approx. 1month after addition of Prolong to the crankcase (probably softened the valve stem seals), my son's picece of foreign debris (91CRX Honda car) increased 2+ mpg w/increased throttle response and ran 1000miles w/o oil over 30+days time (knucklehead didn't check oil level and must have developed rapid leak while driving). The engine seized after 1000miles w/o oil and not a drop of oil was ever found on the ground or any dampness under the engine - bone dry. At least we got a hazard off the road; would have been sooner w/o Prolong added to the crankcase.

Numerous people have told me of their own postitive results and I just listened and have not verified; several ran w/o water after a punctured upper radiator hose for several miles (sounds like suicide to me) and same reports w/o oil after the filter burst on the freeway.
We have run our Western Flyer Funny Car w/Prolong and never blackened a bearing; Nitro does not remove the Prolong lubrication. Some credible big names have used the stuff as well. For what it is worth, Kenny Bernstein established back to back world record times in his funny car after trying out Prolong in Feb/Mar 96, Smokey Yunick (who can't be bought) testifies to the legitimacy of the product in his own tests. The "professional testimonials" don't move me much but my personal experiences do. You can pay anyone to endorse a product, though I suspect with Smokey and Kenny at least, it may be of legitimate personal conviction.

Anyhow, enough yap flapping. Hope I answered your question.
Take care,
Gary Pavlovich

[whiteowl]

Since all these posts I have visited several websites of synthetic oil manufacturers. The information supplied here has been very helpful. I am curious if I should switch to synthetics in a new engine (factory built) Ram360 2500. At this point my jury is still out. I'm so use to the conventional ways and new vehicles cost so much.....the tried and true seem to have the weight in their corner at this point. Thanks again for all the info!!

[Frank]

I've posted this once before. I have an '86 Dodge B150 van (Ram Wagon). I did the first oil change slightly before it had 3000 miles on it. At that time I switched to Mobile 1.

Sixteen years later, I still have the van. I still put mobile 1 in it, and it now has over 301,000 miles on it.

I now use Mobile 1 in everything I own, even my 22 year old lawn mower with a 5 hp Briggs and Straton ( I use 5W30 even though the owners manual for the mower recommends straight 30 weight oil).

My '72 Dart also uses Mobile 1, and yes it still has the original 318 in it (but not for long).

I've never used and oil aditives, so I can't comment on them.

[mr_340]

A friend of mine is a retired engineer from Mobil that was very familiar with the Mobil 1 and other oils. He maintains that Mobil 1 is much better than all the other oils. It could be that he is biased towards Mobil 1, but he also points out that Mobil 1 is the only oil recommended for cars like the Viper (and other so-called performance cars like the Corvette, Porsche, etc.)

He used it in his Bonneville B/SR when he set the speed record at 198mph. I'm planning on using it in my Race Hemi.

[George G. Leverette]

A good friend sugested Prolong engine additative, so I bought the package of engine, trans and fuel. My primary concern was a slight lifter noise, after installing the prolong and driving for several hundred miles the engine noise increased dramatically, I was considering overhaul, but changed the oil that removed the Prolong. The slight ticking noise is back but the 74 Duster with 318 is running fine.

[Gary Pavlovich]

George, The Prolong will remain in your engine for approx. 9000miles. I would suspect you are running hydraulic lifters, but don't know why the additive would enhance the ticking; Prolong does cleans the carbon and sludge from a motor. Probably isn't the Prolong that is the problem, you might have to replace a lifter eventually. Take care,
Gary Pavlovich