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  #1  
Old 01-23-2002, 07:44 PM
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Ausydad Ausydad is offline
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Default Push Or Pull

I enjoy the hell out of my Duster, but sometimes I run it hard to pull against someone or just to show off. Either way, it's fun . It does, however, bring my temp gauge up to 210 where it normally runs 180. A freind has offered me one of his electric fans to put in front of the rad to assist the viscous fan thats there now. I just don't know if I should take his pusher or puller to work with the fan I've got on there. 318 daily driver with electric to go on toggle instead of thermo switch. So, which is it push or pull?
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  #2  
Old 01-23-2002, 08:01 PM
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stick4406 stick4406 is offline
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Default heat

AUSYDAD, from what I've learned over the years your cooling fan is designed to pull the air thru the radiator below speeds of 30 mph.After that the air pressure at the front of the car does all the cooling.I think that you'll find that the fan will not solve your problem.I would look at the radiator first.Have it flow checked by a competent rad. shop.They should be able to tell you if its restricted.Another thing,are you running too much advance?? That may possibly warm things up also(although you'd think you'd hear detonation)What about belt tension and pulley size?Also is the t-stat correct??? just my thoughts..... stick
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Old 01-23-2002, 08:42 PM
Tarrbabe Tarrbabe is offline
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Default 210 degrees when you run it a little hard?

Temp going up when run hard is normal, but 30 degrees, when you say you are just doing a litle, makes me wonder about your timing. Make sure your timing is set at no more than 36 degrees total at 3000rpm. Have you indexed your harmonic balancer to be sure the timing mark is correct? As the rubber in balancers get old, the outer ring can slip out of place, I had a 350 Chevelle that was off 9 degrees when the car was just 5 years old. I'm not saying that something is wrong with your car but that much of a temp. rise quickly would have me looking. Good luck.
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Old 01-23-2002, 09:19 PM
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Ausydad Ausydad is offline
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Default

I know the engine is off balance because I found 2 finger sized fragments of piston skirt in the oil pan I changed last weekend(which actually gained me 30 p.s.i. at idle). Timing I'm not sure of because I haven't found the marks on the balancer since I out the cam in. It is a bit choppy in the "start" position, but runs nicely with great response. I got the rears to smoke, and that ain't easy with 2:45 gearing and 295/50's in the rear. I haven't brought it past 5000 since I found the skirts. Where exactly my timing is, I can only guess. The pulleys are the March billet system with a serpentine belt. Oh yeah, no detonation. I did hear valve float at 7000 one time, after the vibration of the skirt started. I thought mainly of the extra fan during stop lights and drive-thru's. Radiator isn't old. Pretty good shape, actually. Just don't like a 2 core on a SB even. Unless it's stock. Can't afford a Griffin. 185 thermostat and new water pump, hoses, coolant, and cap.
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  #5  
Old 01-23-2002, 10:05 PM
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Default

Get some water wetter by Red Line. Its like 8 bucks a bottle. Our camper liked to heat up a bit going up long hills. We got a new rad, and tried both push and pull fans. It didnt just like towing about 7500lbs plus everything that was in the camper. If you were not towing anything it was fine. But the water wetter worked perfect. It does not go above 195 now as it used to go to 210+.
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  #6  
Old 01-24-2002, 12:22 AM
Tarrbabe Tarrbabe is offline
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Exclamation 210 degrees? The least of your problems.

I can't personally see your car but from what you have told, the temp is just a minor part of your problems. I could be wrong, but I'd bet your timing is way to high, even though you say you don't have spark knock. You must have cast pistons ( stock ) and I can tell you from my past that cast pistons will come apart at almost anything above 6000 rpm (4 engines due to my right foot, a cam that turned 7000+ and my stupity) (my chevy days). Your engine is on it's way out the door if your pistons are already comming apart. You are set for a major engine failure in the near future. If you must keep driving this engine, drive it easy and plan for a change in the near future. Do you know how to find TDC and set your timing from that? If you don't and need to know, let me know and I will try to help. Your timing needs to be set properly.
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  #7  
Old 01-24-2002, 07:22 AM
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Frans Veldman Frans Veldman is offline
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Default

About pushing or pulling:
Pushing is much better!

The reason is simple physics. The air-flow resistance of the radiator is the same no matter whether you are pushing or pulling, and so is the power of the fan.
What differs though is the density of the air flowing through the radiator. If you are pulling, the radiator is on the low-pressure side of the fan. If you are pusing, the radiator is on the high-pressure side of the fan.

A higher pressure means nothing more than "more air particles". And since it is the air that takes the heat away, the more air particles you have inside the radiator, the easier it takes the heat away.

If you would go extreme, and install a very powerful fan that is able to pull almost a vacuum, you would find that it wouldn't cool very good. In a vacuum there are almost no air particles left to conduct the heat.

So, pushing is always better because you have more air particles, and more air particles means better cooling.

Frans
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  #8  
Old 01-24-2002, 08:27 AM
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Ausydad Ausydad is offline
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Default

Thank you Frans. Push. That's what I wanted.
To Uncle Remus' favorite nephew: Yes, I know how to find TDC and did so, made a few of my own marks based on those . I just can't swear by them to complete accuracy to completely set my timing. I know my motor's on the way. That's where the one on the stand comes in to play. '73 318 with .060 over flat tops done less than 2000 miles ago. Still got honing marks even.
I am interested in a decent used M1 intake for the other motor. Dual plane is better for around town, if you have an auto. I'm going 4.
Dartman - "water wetter" is a wonderful product. I've used it in the past with great results. I don't want to put it in right before I pull this motor though. With the new one, it will get it. Thanks to everyone for your ideas, thoughts, and suggestions.
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  #9  
Old 01-24-2002, 06:21 PM
Jims451 Jims451 is offline
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Default

As far as pusher or puller fan, they will mainly make a difference at low speed and stop and go traffic, and the electric fan may impead airflow at highway speeds.
So if you have cooling problems at high speed, you may need a larger radiator or more airflow through the radiator (less shrouding of the radiator, not more fans.)

I have an electric pusher fan on my Charger, and it really dosen't help much, except to cool the radiator when the engine is off between rounds at the track. The viscous fan does most of the work when driving, but I am also in need of a larger radiator too. The stock, 30-year old, 3-core 26" radiator just can not handle the 451 stroker engine
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  #10  
Old 01-24-2002, 07:21 PM
jelsr jelsr is offline
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Two drops of dishwashing detergent like Dawn will work like a surfactant (wetting agent) and help with cooling. Don't use more, foam is not good!
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  #11  
Old 01-25-2002, 10:48 AM
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Default Safer to pull

Tow trucks here always pull or load on a flat bed.
Finger size chunks of piston in the pan? Get your AAA card and don't leave home without it.
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