Polling thoughts(Pro built motor)

[wedgehead]

Finally got to try my stroker from Hensley with some bad luck. Head gasket leaking on #6 cylinder. I only went 100 ft and this was the 1st attempted 1/8 mi pass. Got it home and took the heads off and it had burned the gasket. They used Fel Pro 1008 with o-ring. I specifically told them that I was eventually going to put a 200 NOS kit on it after I work the motor out. I called them to let them know about the problem I was having B4 I removed the heads. I checked the torque on the heads B4 I removed them. THEY ONLY HAD 85 LBS ON THEM!!! The motor is studded w/ARP's but I've always put at least 95-100 lbs on the small blocks that I assembled. Also if someone told me that they were planning on using 200 hp NOS I would o-ring the block and probably use copper gaskets!!! There was no limit on the cost so I expected to get a motor that I wouldn't have to repair & re-assemble myself. They only offered to send my gaskets. Motor costed me $9500. What do you guys think about this? I really need some feedback on this. Wedgehead

[dewme5]

if you wanted 100ft-lbs, and copper gaskets with o-rings. you should have told them that.

[Doug Wilson]

In all fairness, I don't think it's reasonable to expect the shop to o-ring it aand ust copper gaskets unless you tell them to. At the same time, if they paid attention to you telling them of your future NOS bolt on, maybe they should have offerred to do the extra stuff and asked if you wanted it.

What shop sold you the engine? It would be nice for us to know.

And to think, my first race engine was built by Gale Banks - 289 Frood - and it cost me a total of $1,300. I now suffer from sticker shock when I buy anything.

[PRO]

Not much you can really do about it except thr live and learn thing,yeah copper head gaskets would be ideal on a 4 bolt head arrangement,what 60ft did you run? ........PRO.....

[phoenix]

It's hard to second guess their use of the Fel-pro in this application, without a lot more info. However here is some "food for thought". Could the shop in question have adjusted the torque to 85 ft./lbs. in order to compensate for aluminum head expansion/ raises the effective clampload exserted. What's the C.R. of the motor? What is the expected teardown maintenance schedule?
It's also very common with the o-ringing/ copper gskt. route to experience seeping of fluid around the water passages no matter what sealant/torque is used. Sooner or later (usually sooner), you invariably get a dribble on the ground or in the cylinder. I'm not defending them, rather I'm trying to point out areas you could investigate with them and pursue getting this problem rectified so it doesn't happen again. Was the engine "detonating"? Good Luck I'm out.

[cuda66273]

Did your invoice not show all the tork specs on the engine?

Any engine builder I've dealt with always includes all the spec sheets from the part manufacturers along with the invoice and a sheet detailing all the engine spec's.

I'll bet money that the invoice reads "No warrantee is expressed or implied for racing applications" Your lucky it's only a head gasket, I believe ARP makes 2 maybe 3 different grades of Mopar head studs, which one did they use, the $40 ones or the $48.00 ones?

In today's world most engine builders just can't be competitive using the "Best of the Best" and will shortcut wherever they can to meet or beat the market price. I would get the ARP number and upgrade the studs to the better number and fix it right and fix it once.

This is why I stay with Drummond Machine, he machines everything and writes it down, keeps me posted as he goes along, everyday he lets me know what he's doing and any defects he finds. He then assembles the short block and heads and gives me all the chunks to do the final assembly. He's there when we do the initial fire off to be sure everything is correct, and he's at the track for the first race day and inspects everything after each pass, reads the plugs, adjusts the timing and carb then helps to determine shift and launch RPM. It's mind numbing but when we're done it's right and it's bullet proof.

If the driver were as good as the engine builder we'd have the National Record in our back pocket.

Bob employs only Bob, he does everything that's done and he takes full responsibility for everything. My favorite saying to Bob when he calls is always "Whatever you recommend, that's why I brought it to you", he chuckles and adds another line item to my invoice.

If you Guy's can find a Bob in your area work with him and forget all this mail order stuff, you're not saving any money.

[wedgehead]

Thank you guys for your thoughts. As I mentioned in my initial post I told these professionals what I was going to do with this motor. I even told him what approximate hp I wanted out of the motor. I've dealt with a lot of pros and a lot of them are offended when you try to tell them how to do their job or what you need to achieve a certain hp in a certain situation. I'm not the professional, if I were then I don't think I'd need to give them my business. I'm not really pissed at anyone but I'm a profesional myself and I know how it is when you perform a job for people and so many of them think they know your job when in essence they don't have a clue; but you couldn't tell them that!! I'm in the communications business and the field is so vast that it takes a rocket scientist to keep up with it all. I do it everyday so there's not very much that someone that doesn't can tell me. This is how I feel about race motors. Thanks so much guys. Wedgehead

[JCFcuda]

Wegehead,

I think that communication problems are the hardest to deal with. Even things that are spelled out, are some times misunderstood.
I brought a block over to a reputable shop,
Told them I wanted mains checked (alingment)bored, honed tourque plates 0 deck the block , but I did not tell them to MAG the block, Built the motor, put the think on the Dyno payed for 6 hrs. The first pull it was pi**ing water out the side of the block.
Boy was i a happy guy.

You live and learn
Jim,

Ps I dealt with Ken allways seemed fair to me, His son has 1/8mile record IHRA SS/A They do know how to build engines.But no one perfect,(at lest im not)