Wheelie ! ! ! ! !

[TwiZtiD440]

From a realistical stand point, what would it take for a 3500lbs vehicle to get a lil bit ( Under 1 foot ) of air off the line? If I'm using 3.8 - 3.9 gears, what kinda chasis work would be required? Possible with WIDE street tires? Whats your thoughts?

[dewme5]

400 hp to the rear wheels would be a minimum. bfg drag radials might do it, something like ET streets or full on slicks are going to be even better. Dumping the clutch at 4-5000rpm, or a 4000 rpm stall in an automatic with a transbrake.

gotta hook all the power

[Checkmate]

Don't forget the drag shocks up front. May also help to disconnect the sway bar up front.

[Ausydad]

I wouldn't even think of it until you get the frame rails tied together to keep from twisting it when you try.

[dewme5]

oh yeah.. frame connectors and a cage! don't want to twist that unibody like a pretzel.

From what I've seen. the people pulling the front wheels off the ground are running in the 10's. in which case you are going to need a cage anyway.

[sbuc72]

twizted440, what kinda car are you building, your always asking bigblock questions, now chassis questions. the more info you give us, the more help we can be.

But yes, you would need drag slicks (or the street slicks) larger then 10" wide, and between 450-500hp at the rear wheel.

.sbuc72

[Tarrbabe]

I could be wrong, but wheelies are a product of chassis. If you take a car that is set up to run 9.90's and pulls the wheels, pull the motor and put in a stock 440 and it should pull the wheels; but not for long. Am I wrong? I once saw a s/b chebby pull the wheels 5' in the air, and that was a 550hp motor. He also got scared and let out of it and destroyed the front end and oil pan.

[dewme5]

it's a combination of alot of things. but power is certainly one of them.

[Mopardad]

Power ,yeah it takes some but a good chassis will do much more when it comes to lifting the front wheels. Watch a low 13 high 12 second NHRA stock class car sometime

[Hybridized]

Wheelies are kewl, but is wasted energy. You car would go faster if you transferred the energy to the wheels for more forward acceleration.

I've seen 13 second cars yank 6" to a foot. My 70 Duster (11.01 at 122 5800' altitude) doesn't even begin to pick up the front wheels. With 1700 pounds up front and 1100 pounds in the back, it is easier for the car to plant the back end. And that adds to traction.

I'm getting 1.5 sixty foot times with 3.91 gears and 26x10x15 slicks.


I wouldn't build a car to do wheelies, but if it happened, I'd be !

[PRO]

My 67 Coronet would pull a small wheelie,8" under the drivers side tire and about 4" under the pass side.This was a simple but effective chassis,318 torsion bars,100lbs light in front(manual steering,no inner wells,batt in trunk,underhood bracing removed) and an adjustable pinion snubber set at 1" of clearance with the floorpan reinforced where it made contact,rearched stock leaf springs(5 leaves per side)26x10" slicks,3.91 gears,long rear wheel studs,driveshaft loop and scattershield.This 440 made 572 hp(had 150 shot of N2O)and ran on pump 85 octane,Id have to leave at 6000 rpms with the bottle on,kinda scary but normal for me(sort of)if I didnt leave at 6000 it(4 spd) would bog the motor but this car had a best of 1.49 60 ft!!! and turned 1.50's all day,for a car that only went 11.88 it was a blast to drive and equally as hard to cut a good light.I didnt tie the frames but probably should have as the front frame rails tend to tip in at the top with this kind of abuse which eventually make for too much - camber but is easily straightened at a frame shop.If youve never driven a car that lifts the tires dont die until you do its a major blast and a huge crowd pleaser and makes for a good reputation for your street car.....just do it ........PRO.....

[TwiZtiD440]

My Goal is this:

440 C.I.D Producing somewhere in the area of 550hp n/a, and 800 with a nice 250 n02 spray once i feel I can handle 550 n/a as it is.

Complety rebuilt A833 4 speed with a good drive shaft, and a dana or detroit locker rear 3.7 or 3.8 gears, Really don't wanna be breaking parts though on a regular basis As I've been told this is nearly impossible to avoid with this kinda power

All this into a 97 or newer Reg. Cab dakota. Mr. "Shu-mocker" is currently developing high quality engine mounts for this appilcation.

I pick up my 440 assemblie ( junk yard out of some old motor home ) at Warhoops in a couple of days, for any of you around here near Detroit.

I'm researching alot on chasis, and suspension works. I'm taking my time and trying to do everything right. I'm turning 17 soon so this is my first project as you'd probably guess. Thankfully this would'nt be nearly as easy, with out this forum, the internet, and living in the detroit area, surronded by my father's friends that are all big time Mopar enthusiasts.

This vehicle is aimed as a daily driver that has plenty of potential to simply swap tires and be ready to hit the brackets and run low 10's high 9's hopefully Hense the use of NoS and not a constant power adder, I've been told blowing an engine puts alot of added stress on the engine, mostly the crank bearings, plus I really won't be able to afford a 3g blower, and I'm going for more of a stealth look so a blower really would'nt work out for what I'm going for.

I have my ideas on general engine layouts. I have a digital camera, and will start a site of all this as well as post progress. Thank you all for your help.

[dschumers]

You will have a hard time pulling the wheels with a fat block stuck in the nose of a Dakota. Should do great burnouts though.

[sbuc72]

if you put the engine in the flatbed (middle of the truck) you'd be easily able to do wheelies. but you'd loose the "sleeper" look, heh.

.sbuc72

[cuda66273]

Last year my 318 would pull the left front off the ground about 4-6" with a 3460 pound gross weight.

4000 stall Dynamic launching at 3200 off the foot brake, 3.91 gear and 8x28 MT's.

This year at +-2800 pounds, 4.56 gears and 10x29 Goodyears...who knows?

[goose]

sbuc72 and dschumers are right, you're not going to have much traction with a 440 in front and lightweight pickup bed in the back. If you wanna get really crazy, go ahead and put the engine in back, and put a canopy on the bed so nobody can see it!

Petersen's 4wheel and Offroad built a 440 Dak about a year ago, it might have some info useful for you...

[djswwg]

Twizted, here's how I pull my front wheels about 4-5" in a 3800# 70 cuda. 440/auto with 3800 stall, cheap (home made) frame connectors, 4.30 gear on a spool, open headers, 318 t-bars, no sway bars, 90/10 front shocks, 6 leaf rear springs, no snubber (the car leaves harder without it!?), 9x29.5 slicks. It's normally a streeter, a couple times a year I open the exhaust, swap out the 3.23's for the bigger pot, and change the back tires. It's a hoot! And like PRO says, nothing in the world feels as great as yanking the front wheels. Build it. You'll like it.....djs

[cuda66273]

Ya, stick that motor in the back, be sure to cut holes in the floor boards so you can see where your going. Independant rear brakes set up on twin peddles will make steering alot easier.

There's more great info on Bob Riggles website, check out the feature on the "NEW" Hurst Hemi Under Glass.

This time around it's another 66.

Here's a pic from his tour in the UK
http://www.msport-uk.com/photo/goodw..._barracuda.jpg

Here the Brits entry to the wheelie competition..
http://www.msport-uk.com/photo/goodw...edes_truck.jpg

Here's one from 1968 with the second generation 67 Cuda
http://www.charlesgilchrist.com/GPC/DR/WS-HUG6801.jpg

Anyone remember this classic Mopar?
http://www.mysterion.net/funnys/imag...4_redwagon.jpg

Here's my English heritage showing through
http://www.mysterion.net/funnys/images2/austin.jpg

But when things go bad....they really go bad
http://www.mysterion.net/funnys/imag...chcityburn.jpg

How about some real bleach
http://www.mysterion.net/funnys/images4/radiciwise.jpg

Now that's entertainment!

[sbuc72]

the hemi under glass project ruled, i saw some video's of it on speedvision (speedchannel now). now thats entertainment

.sbuc72

[The Dartman]

I think that "pullin da wheels" in a 3500 Dodge Dakota with a 440 boat anchor for an engine may be a little far fetched unless some things are taken into consideration:

1. Lighten the big block up as much as possible using Edelbrock or Mopar Aluminum heads.
2. Lighten the front of the truck up with fiberglass hood and bumpers.
3. 4 link or ladder bar suspension is a must. You will never be able to launch a wheelie with a stock or even a combo using S/S springs (I don't even know what a 97 Dak has for suspension). One thing I do know is that yankers with S/S springs are few and far between. Mopars with S/S springs just don't have tright launch - the whole body will lift instead of a Ch*vy type launch that squats and tries to raise the front end.
4. May may have to use ballast to acheive the traction you need.
5. Definately gonna need a little shot of the juice off the line to make it work.

BTW - the slowest car I even seen pulling a wheelie was a '82 Muttstang with a 302 and a 4 link running 13.2's pulling a 5" wheelie.

[Leigh]

Wheelie. You mean like this?

[TwiZtiD440]

To get the wheels off the ground, or at least get good traction:

1. Lighten front end ( fiber glass hood ect.)
2. Re-inforced chasis ( ties ect.)
3. Ladder suspension
4. Fuel cells in the bed as ballast
5. W i d e Street tires
6. 3.8 gears, probably. Will be a daily streeter.

What else would help, others made alot of mention of chasis work, as did the people I talk to at auto body shops at work. I've heard of something called traction bars. What kind of work or mods would be needed to acheive good traction? I'm aiming to have this be a light truck, so I don't wanna be throwing 300lbs of sand or w/e in the bed for traction. Suggestions? By the way, if the 3 Ram chargers were not sold out of Mopar's Chasis book, I would'nt be asking such a general question. Just looking for general idea's.

[fastback340]

twizted, i think you need to take a step back and do some major thinking about your project. if you want a streeter with a big block i dont think a truck is the way to go. trucks have no wieght over the rear wich means no traction! what are your states smog laws? A big block in a newer truck was never offered and will never pass emission or saftey inspections. if this is your first project i think you should try something alittle easier maybe a smal block or even a big block a-body. im not saying that your prodject is impossible but im not sure if youll be as happy with it as you hope to be. just my 2 cents worth

[TwiZtiD440]

Good point fastback, I live in Michigan, last I checked, aslong as you have cats, emissions are ok, carb or no carb. But you bring up a good point. I need to do a lil research before I drop alot of money into this RB in a Dak idea.

[TwiZtiD440]

Anyone know of a Michigan Vehicle Code listing online?

[TwiZtiD440]

As long as I meet "Michigan Vehicle Code", then getting a title should'nt be a difficult task. I'll be contacting an inspector soon to get a more concrete understanding of the finer points so that I can insure that what I'm doing is comepletly doable and acceptable in a legal way.

Now for the sensable reasonble way. Your right, everyone I've talked to about this idea, has said the same thing, simply put, no force on a power means no traction. So a light weight pickup with a "Boat anchor" engine under the hood, simply would'nt have good traction. BUT, i talked to a Chibby guy that has an s10 ( tin can ) with a 454. That was back in the day when I did'nt know exactly what a 454 was. Anyways, I do remember him telling me at first he used 3.8 gears, and about 400 lbs of lead shot for ballast in the bed. He said he still had traction problems for the whole shot. He said that after he installed "traction bars" and added even more cross overs to the chasis, and reduced the balast to 200 lbs, that this combo was enough to were spinning the tires required dumping the clutch in 1st at redline, that for a whole shot he could still get off the line with getting alot of the power hooked to the ground.

How much of this was Bullshit? I really don't know. But what do you guys think?

[fastback340]

i think anyone that drives a chevy (and enjoyes it) should have there head checked. i didnt mean youll never get a truck too hook up. i just think you might be getting in alittle over your head or at least over your wallet.

[djswwg]

Twizted. It's ALL bullshit untill you see a time slip to back it up. That's the single most important piece of advice you'll ever get from me or anyone else who's worked on this stuff and made it work right. Period. Don't take JUST my word for it tho. Ask other guys who frequent this site and have strong running vehicles. Jims451, PRO, and other guys like that. Now having said that, let me offer you some encouragement. Decide on what you want your vehicle to do, then talk to lots of people with similar cars, get advice and information. Then sit down and calculate what it will cost to be sure you can afford it. It's all to common to see partially finished projects in garages and driveways. Believe me you'll get tired of it if you can't afford it. By the way, What ever the $ figure is you come up with is, add about 50% more!!!! .......djs

[Magnum440]

If you hang out on the street scene much, you will notice quite a few S-10s that are tubbed with BIG meats-I'm talkin about a 14 or 15 inch slick! Thats because they NEED that much rubber to hook! And these trucks-a really fast one, will be running stroker 383s or 400 small blocks. Plus most these guys also run the bottle.

The Dakota is bigger and heavier(but alot cooler) than a S-10. Even in Pro-Stock the Daks had a tuff time hangin with the S-10s. I'm guessing this is why you wanna go with the 440. First, remember the 440 will put out gobs more torque than even a stroked 350. The 440s purpose in life was to propel 3800 lb muscle cars, police cruisers and yes even motor homes. Your Dak will end up weighing in the 3800 lb range so you are correct in assuming the 440 will get the job done. BUT, as has been told you, getting this hot rod to hook will be your biggest chalenge!

A guy I know is doing this to his S-10 that will be making about 700 hp on the bottle: Ford 9", 4.30 gear, spool, narrowed, custom leaf springs and the Slide-a-Link bars. It's got huge tubs and 15" slicks and rims. A ladder bar($$$) system would be better, but he's hoping this combo will hook.

Sooo, IMHO, you will need something like this to achieve your goals.

Yes, lighten the front as much as possible. Headers will be a *itch. But I guess you figured that.

Man, you ARE twisted!!

GOOD LUCK!!

[TwiZtiD440]

Yes, this is all an idea, over all purpose is to be a daily driven Dak that has enough power to smoke stock domestics, and most modded out ricers. Since it ever came out, I've always liked the Dakota. My family is a Dodge family, and all my dad's side of the family works for chryslers or dodge now. I figure if Chrysler put the bread and butter on their table's, I should show my loyalty. I'll be posting pics of step by step of dissasembling my own first 440 here at home. Only thing I'm somewhat concerned about, is the way to mount this "boat anchor" to the dak's frame, I think I'll take dimensions of the engine bay, then order polyurethane bushing mounts from "shoe-maker", and then do w/e custom tinkering to get the mounts in place. Other than that I'm still waiting for the engine, while I make the $$$$ and read up on my homework for all of this. Thanks for the help everyone !