New Monte Carlo Concession!

[GS -]

They are not calling it a front airdam concession, but it sounds like one to me. If not, what the heck is it? A new way of allowing chevy to increase the length of their car (BS) ....(taken from Nascar.com)


Jeff Green's Chevy Monte Carlo goes through inspection. Credit: ASP
Measuring process changed for Monte Carlos
March 21, 2002
6:07 PM EST (2307 GMT)




DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. -- NASCAR officials announced modifications in the inspection and measuring process, specifically for the Chevrolet Monte Carlo, beginning with the NASCAR Winston Cup event weekend at Texas Motor Speedway on April 5th.

The current NASCAR Winston Cup Series inspection process utilizes reference lines for inspection located on the inspection room floor to help determine the overall length of the front of the car for each manufacturer.

The Chevrolet’s reference line has been moved to the same point as the Ford Taurus and Dodge Intrepid. It will now be measured at 100 ¼ inches in length. Prior to this modification, the Chevrolet was measured at 99 inches). The Pontiac Grand Prix is measured at 100 ½ inch

[3bolt main]

squeeky wheels get the grease

[GS -]

Well it should be fair enough....phord, chevy and Dodge are all the same length, that leaves ponitacs with a 1/4 inch more. Maybe all the bitching will stop now....NOT!

[beepbeepsrule]

Does this mean they can kick their cow-catcher out even further or will they have to reel it in some?

[sanborn]

I am real iffy on this one. Just don't usually get involved with bodies. But, if I understand the explaination it is really much ado about nothing.

The windshield angles are established by Nascar. So are the start point/end point of the windshield. Measuring back 15" from the top of the windshield is the zero reference for measurements for a car. From this zero reference point all front and rear measurements are taken. If they increased the front measuring point on a GM then what they have done is move the front air dam 1" further forward. This should give the effect of more front down force. But the shape of the air dam didn't change so the effect is minimized.

What I don't understand is I thought all the overall(body) length dimensions were the same. So if they moved the front forward, then the rear spoiler must come forward as well.

Maybe I shouldn't have posted anything because I really don't know that much about it.

Confused and Abused???

[GS -]

Sanborn, your not the only one! I'm not sure exactly what this means.

[mopardave]

NASCAR's favorite saying is "Confusion to the Enemy" .....and they consider everyone an enemy but Chebby

[road chicken]

I dunno that much about this either, but if the WHOLE front of the car is moved as is, whats the diff? I can see if the spoiler is just allowed to move- that affects the signature of the air flow. I would think significantly . Ok wheres our resident air managment specialist- do we have one of those here ?

[GS -]

Ok, I think I understand whats happening, and I'm not a specialist by any means:

If they extend the front of the car from zero reference (15 inches measuring back from the top of the windshield) then all they will be doing is a 1- 1/4 inch lengthening of the car. However, if they try to make up that space by modifying the airdam (or cowcatcher ) by deviating from Nascar airdam templates then that would be illegal, assuming Nascar has such angle of attack measuring patterns to detect this.

Then what Sanborn is saying makes sense, a mild extension of the body of the car would make no real difference in perfomance.....does that sound correct to everyone?

[sanborn]

Do we have a resident air management specialist? I hope so because I need to talk to one!

[a.jmilligan@pei]

after all the complaining we have been hearing,last week #24 seemed really good when he was out front,#20 made his way from the back to the front with little trouble and#8 was working good too(he abused his tires by running too low too often).it was stated on nascar.com that some cars that increased the front dimensions of their cars got too much downforce which caused the cars tailend to break loose. it would be nice to see some of these guys have this happen-"hopefully when they are side by side",but it will likely happen when they are fighting for position with marlin,w.burton,newman etc. also if the whining keeps up nascars only option will be that all cars will have to be the same size,run the same engine(boring),then the only difference will be the stickers with the brand names on them,these would have to be all the same size too because the names ford and dodge are shorter than chevrolet and pontiac meaning fewer letters/less weight/more speed. just a thought ,what do you all think!.

[GS -]

From the articles I've read this week, Nascar says it does not want all cars to have the same body style. They want to keep the brands different because of fan loyalty to manufacturers.

Yep, I can see them bitching over less letter= less weight and shivy crying foul!

Originally posted by a.jmilligan@pei
after all the complaining we have been hearing,last week #24 seemed really good when he was out front,#20 made his way from the back to the front with little trouble and#8 was working good too(he abused his tires by running too low too often).it was stated on nascar.com that some cars that increased the front dimensions of their cars got too much downforce which caused the cars tailend to break loose. it would be nice to see some of these guys have this happen-"hopefully when they are side by side",but it will likely happen when they are fighting for position with marlin,w.burton,newman etc. also if the whining keeps up nascars only option will be that all cars will have to be the same size,run the same engine(boring),then the only difference will be the stickers with the brand names on them,these would have to be all the same size too because the names ford and dodge are shorter than chevrolet and pontiac meaning fewer letters/less weight/more speed. just a thought ,what do you all think!.

[sanborn]

Got a little new info yesterday. The Monte Carlo produces about 1200-1300 lbs. of downforce in wind tunnel testing (there is a wide variation in downforce from team to team depending on how the body is configured within the rules). By moving the front nose out 1" and not changing the configuration (as I understand the rule change stated), this would increase the level arm of the front nose about 1%. This would equate to an increase of 1% downforce or about 12-13 lbs.

The above equation is not exactly correct however, because the center of gravity (front to rear) is actually in front of the body zero reference point. So, the overall effect would really be slightly less than 1%.

I'm confused, is everyone else confused? Now, where's my little white pills? Where is our Resident Air Management Specialist? Where's my coffee? ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[GaryS]

According to Jayski, NASCAR is also looking at taking something from the Dodges again. Lord knows, you can't have a Dodge win more races than a Chevy!

[a.jmilligan@pei]

ROB YOU SUMMED THINGS UP THE WAY THEY SHOULD BE-SHORT AND TO THE POINT ,NO B.S NO MIGRAINE!

[a.jmilligan@pei]

well rob im afraid i have a hunch that i know some of the changes you think nascar should make. a few right hand turns,maybe an "s" turn or 2 and maybe a chicane would make it more exciting,and interesting to watch. a little inside/outside passing and low gear powerpassing coming in and out of sharp turns would be a welcome addition to any race. some of these dual-250 lap qualifying races could be run with the first race run all left turns, and run the second race inverted-all right turns.

[3bolt main]

A.J first off newman who? and i wouldnt mind seeing them utilize the infield at daytona then maybe we could get rid of the restrictor plates and go back to the fastest cars at daytona winning ya know i understand that that some equality is good for the competition side of nascar but i think that it should be up to the manufacturer to bring to the table its best car and if it dont hold its own then the drivers can complain to GM FOMOCO and the Dodge dealers assoc to make the changes nesessary for their cars to compete. at least then it would asimulate "stock" car racing.and then i wouldnt have to listen to grown men whining on my TV it should go back to the "run whatcha brung" type of racing let the folks at NASCAR go back to worrying about the safety aspects and not the competition aspects not saying they dont worry about the safety it would let them concentrate more on it ....inch this inch that my wife dont complain about inches this much Also Aj you kinda have a point if the Dodges Ran with no paint or Sponser decal we would have less weight guess i'll have to have a talk with Ray E.

[a.jmilligan@pei]

3 bolt -the newman i refer to is ryan newman(ford),i just mentioned him along with sterling and ward because he was in the top 3 at the time! as i told rob,id be happy to see some right handers,s-turns and the like,also these shorter tracks bore me.i must admit some of the short track racing can be more intense. it seems that the slower cars and inexperienced drivers are just in the way.