Your gonna love this...

[Dart]

If you have been on this board for awhile you should have read the posts about the MP LA 360 short block assemblies PRO and I bought. The story gets better.

Here is a quick review: After each buying an MP LA 360 (10 to 1) short block we found that mine had standard rod bearings with .010 under crank. PRO's had one rod that had a standard bearing with the .010 under crank. PRO fixed his and I managed to have them ship me a new short block to replace the bad one. I checked the rods and the mains on the SB and they looked just fine.

The update: I however, neglected to check the pistons on the new SB. I installed the SB with the Edelbrock heads and got everything (FINALLY - with help from PRO) working. It runs fine, but it just didn't run as hard as I was thinking it would. I decided to check the compression and I had 150# in every hole. PRO had 175# with the same combo. Sort of explains why it doesn't run very hard. PRO G-teched it and it comes in around 13.8 in the quarter. Not bad, but not what I wanted to build. I called my contact at Chrysler and they said that I must have gotten a 9 to 1 SB instead of the 10 to 1. It was labeled as a 10 to 1 SB, so it looks like someone made a little mistake. They shipped me a new SB and I just got it today. To say the least, I will be checking EVERY SINGLE PART of this short block before I install it.

I have no complaints especially since they have now sent me two new short blocks. The hassle is the teardown and install which has happened twice (when I get done with this one).

The moral of the story is that performance work is sometimes frustrating, annoying, and depressing. At this point the motivation is below ZERO. I think this one may sit in the garage for awhile.

[njdevil2]

Makes me wonder if I should get a MP 300 360 Crate motor....

[Hammer 74]

Hey Dart, don't wait too long; the MP warranty runs out soon.

[Doug Wilson]

This tends to validate my thoughts about crate engines. Areliable machine shop and good parts thet you pick yourself would have fixed those problems.

[Hammer 74]

I have some miles on my 360/380 and it seems fine. I think that there are different types of "crate motors" as a short blockis a remanufacturered item and somebody has to think more about whats going on with clearances and such. The crate motors are new and should be standard parts and clearances. Mopar makes mistakes just like the rest of us, but we can blame ourselves for our mistakes.

[njdevil2]

Problem is, though, I plan to buy this assembled, figuring that it's as advertised. Just with a machine shop or engine builder, I should'nt have to check his work.. I'm not God or play Him on TV, but for the expense of a crate motor, it should be checked BEFORE I get it and install it. Also realize that this affects the other things (like trans & rear) from a performance stand point.
I guess this will be a game time decision for me...

[71383bee]

I'd like to add my 2 cents.

I thought that 360's are pretty easy to find. If it were me i would try to get a 360 from an old truck or car and just build it. I remember an article in some mopar magazine where they were running well over 400+ horse an a 360 with smog heads. A crate engine would have to modified to put that kind of juice out and i would think that by the time your done with the crate the costs would be pretty even.

I don't know maybe i'm missing something. It just doesn't add up to me.

[Doug Wilson]

I think crate engines are supposed to be a quick and dirty answer to a question nobody asked!! You wind up with something put together with the cheapest parts possible to meet an advertising and profit requirement. You end up with something that has none of your own thoughts in it's build up, and then maybe you get to contribute to the data base of horror stories!!

Doesn't sound to me like the best possible solution. Does it to you??

[Dr. Righteous]

Went the route of pulling a running '74 360 from a van. Not bad, no slime in the oil, no smoke on cold startup. Good engine to build! Wrong. Upon teardown the crank journals were eaten up, had 2 cracked cylinder heads. Paid $150 for the whole engine because I bought it from a buddy of mine. Now adays most junk yards or "Auto Recyclers" as they like to call themselves want $400+ for a complete 360 running or not. And no you cannot pull the main caps and look at the crank, or the intake off and look for bent pushrods.
It is an expensive proposition no matter which way you go.

[Hammer 74]

You have to look at what you get for the money. All new parts and all machining done to production specs; roller cam, modern heads and tried and true parts. It would be difficult to get 380 HP from an older LA motor with 9 to 1 compression and small valve heads. There are millions of these motors in Rams and Dakotas that run forever. I bet if you were to price the parts with machining it would be well over $3500 but maybe it would be wise to have the clearances checked and everything scoped out just for piece of mind. GM and Ford sell something simmilar to what Mopar sells and I have heard of problems with them also. I think that crate motors are a good buy and will not hesitate to buy another.

[Dart]

For the money the 360/380 is overpriced. I built my 360 for less with the Edelbrock heads. If I had gotten the true 10 to 1 motor I would be making around 450 horse. The dollar per HP is way better with my combo. Here is the breakdown:

MP 10 to 1 LA 360 $1100 (reman)
Edelbrock heads $1270
Intake $74 (Holley Street Dominator - used)
Carb $400 (holley 830)

All the rest of the stuff you should have in your car.

That is around $3,000 with gaskets and it makes close to 450 hp. That is $6.66 per horse. I think you can get the crate for around $3800. That puts the HP per dollar at $10 with the crate 380, why spend the extra $3.40 for less horse? You would also have to buy the correct flexplate or re-weight the converter if you have a 727 or 904 trans.

[tsteiner61]

This is what happened to my last crate motor after just 5 miles. The pic is looking upward from under the #6 cylinder. I guess they forgot the flux and sonic check. Didn't get a dime back either. Guess if I'll ever buy another crate motor again.

[Dr. Righteous]

Man, that crack in #6??
Reminds me of my '89 Ford 4x4 pickup. Cracked in #6 also. The truck that ate my savings! Sold the thing for junk after it went to the point of no return dollar wise. $4000 invested ----> got $1000 for it not running.

I have learned a lot of things the hard way because I wasn't willing or didn't have the money do thing by the book.
I take my stuff to a machine shop that does good work, and I do the rest.
The next engine I build will get much closer attention to things like chamber CC, and researched parts selection rather than what is on sale.

[beeman]

I bought a 360 shortblock last year and nerver cheched it and it ran great. I pulled off the heads because i'm installing a larger cam and decided to check piston to deck measurements witha dial indicator. My piston sit above the block deck .005 . I have the 10.1 short block and am using edelbrock heads. Just thought someone would like to know.

[Dart]

What is you compression in your 360? On the 10 to 1 blocks we have the pistons came out of the hole .019. The compression is 175# in each hole.

[njdevil2]

I checked the specs on the 360/300 hp, and it should be what I'm looking for. 9.0:1 decent cam and good torque. I've been checking what the "racers" have been using (Mopar Muscle 4/2002) and the times appear to be in the range I've been after. IF I find a 360 that has to be rebuilt, I'm still going to wind up spending 3k in parts and macining, not including my time. This is the first time I've heard about reliablity problems.
Like I said before, it appears to be a toss up. I may just crate it and forget about it.

[Dart]

The MP 360 SB is $1100...

How much time are we talking about here? Assembly of a motor, if you take your time, shouldn't be more than about 4 hours. You will know everything about it (clearances etc.) and you would be building a WAY better combo that will make more HP and will cost you LESS. How is that a toss up? You don't have any warranty with the crate 360/380 so I wouldn't suggest slamming one of those in your car without at least checking the bottom end.

Go get the the MP SB (10 to 1), check it out (clearances). Bolt on the Edlebrock heads, intake, and carb. Out the rest of your goodies on it and slam it in. You make 450 horse (conservatively) and spend $3,000.

The crate lists for $3,995 and you should be able to get it for $3,800 or so. I checked the Mopar parts computer and none of the 360/380 crates are availiable at the moment and none of the 360 10 to 1 LA blocks are also. You would still be ahead on building it yourself.

[71383bee]

Ohh i see dart, you bought just the small block and built from there. That's why it's cheaper. I thought that you bought the crate engine. Yeah I can see now that that is a more cost effective way to approach it.

I got another question then...if the assembled 10.0:1 360 short block is around $1100 then why is the new replacement 340 blocks around $1400 just for the block?

[Dart]

Not sure on why the 340 block is so expensive. I do know that the 360 SB is the new casting (1992) that is set up as an LA. My block has the pad for the new style motor mounts. Maybe since it is still in production the cost is cheaper. I assume they are re-manufacturing the warranty magnum 360's and machineing them into LA blocks. That would obviously make them fairly cheap to do with plentiful cores to be had. The blocks are decked and most of the internals (90% of the reciprocating assemblies) are brand new. The ones we got were used internals and used blocks (reman). You cannot build the 10 to 1 360 for the cost of the re-man short block from MP.

[beeman]

With the edelbrock heads and fel pro head gaskets that compress to .039 i end up with 180 lbs in each cylinder.

[Hammer 74]

I still do not see how buying the short block is such a deal. It is used parts bored and ground down to make it useable. $1100, i could do it for less with used parts and probably even do it for the same price with new parts.
I paid less than $3500 with tax for my 380hp and it is all new parts with a standard bore and crank and also a roller cam, good heads and 9:1 compression. I bet that with a 10:1 and some mild head work it will be 450+hp. In the long run it will last longer also since it is standard bore.
This is the first I heard of anyone having issues with the 360 crate motors even though you guys are talking about the short blocks. Of the dozen people I know with the 380hp, none have had a problem that was motor related. Some are over 50,000 miles without a loss of power and driven almost daily.
There is a 90 day warranty on all crate motors and I think even the short blocks.

[njdevil2]

Well, I did the math, acutally, and just to make sure I'm on the right page, I'm looking at a 360/300hp motor. The ONLY difference between the 380 & 300 hp engines is the CAMS. I confirmed this with the GURUS at Mother Mopar. Also got the same answer from Mancini. Total price TO MY DOOR is $3200. I add carb and headers. I didn't want 10:1 compression due to fuel concerns. If I can run Premium, thats fine, but this is a EVERYDAY DRIVER and not a trailer queen.
I looked at pricing out the 360 short block and by the time I did the heads, cam and machining I was around the cost of a crate motor. Don't get me wrong, I just finished building a 360 that has about 300 hp, in my Demon runs mid to low 13's 727 w/3.55's. Yes this may be a convenience for me to get a crate, but if we're comparing LA's to Magnums, I'd say that a brandy new engine for $3200 is a better bargain than a used/remaned +.20 engine any day. Just my opinion of course. But just like the Demon project, I'm still considering my options to building my Aspen Wagon the same way, mid to low 13's, auto, and now with air, and not compromise streetability. At some point I'm also looking at a EFI system, which the Magnum leans toward a little better (especially if I look at stock Mopar systems).

[Doug Wilson]

I've got about $3900 in the sailor Son's 340 - including 340 (used) standard block, steel crank and rods, Edelbrock heads, RPM Air-Gap and all the rest of the stuff.
Built by the best hod rod engine builder in Oregon.

[sidlmopar]

Asking ? is the 360 crate motor is assembald in mexico if it is tells you something

[Doug Wilson]

Racism rears its' ugly head... massa gringo

[Dart]

Actually the 360 SBs are re-maunfactured by Cummins. I wouldn't knock the Mexico built stuff. Chryslers newest and most advanced motor plant is in Toluca Mexico. That is where they are building the new 5.7 Hemi. From what I have read the casting work and the machining is top notch from Toluca.

I also think with the way all car manufacturers are doing business these days that worrying about where a motor is made or being re-manufactured is a non-concern. All companies make parts in different countries.

My latest 360 that I just got has "Hecho en Mexico" stamped in the block. The casting date is 1988. Chrysler has been building motors in Mexico for quite some time now. A number of 360s in the older trucks are from Mexico.

NJ2: I can see what you mean, but think about this. If you were to run the 360 SB (like I have) with the Edelbrock heads you would be around 10.3 or 10.5 to 1. With the aluminum heads and the hyperutectic pistons you can easily run premium pump gas on the street without any detonation. The heads will take the heat out of the motor and relieve the detonation problems. The bump in compression is worth at least 75 ponies. That would put you (everything else being fairly close) around 380+75=455hp all on pump gas. Granted I realize your concern about re-built motors, but the used block is actually a better piece. Once the metal is heated and cooled a bazillion times it will relieve the stress in the block from casting. Machineing a used block is actually the way to go. I do agree with the new magnum being a better piece, but the only problem is with the valvetrain. You are very limited in what you can upgrade an it is expensive.

Look in your book, there is NO WARRANTY with either the crate or the SB.

Beeman: exactly my point! 180 is like 10.5 to 1! That is awesome! Perfect for the .509 cam that is in the SB! That car should SCREAM! All on pump gas!

[njdevil2]

Yeah, your right about the stress thing, I forgot about that. However, again, with issues like core shift, crank alignment and thing like that, again, I'm thinking a used block is a crap shoot. I don't really care WHERE the block is cast. It's the same machinery, just cheaper labor. As far as the valve train goes, I'm not really thinking of upgrades in the near future (1-2 years) even still, at that point the MAgnum stuff should be cheaper(or so you would think). Like I said, I'm not looking to knock on the 11 second door (that would be pretty cool in a wagon though...), just enough to kick Banzai Bandits butts with a semi-serious street wagon.
I could recreate my 360 in my Demon, that cost me $2500 a few years ago, and it was a streeter. Again, I'd have to look into my log book a find all the prices just to compare. I know about the aluminum head option, I'm just not ready for that (yet).
I appreciate all the input though. I'm still thinking about my options.

[sidlmopar]

Hay find you a E 58 360 motor build it you woulkd not believe how strong you will run I had one in my duster I pulled the motor out off a police car and had goodies put in it run like hell

[Mopar Tom]

I have a small budget so I have been buying motor parts for about a year and a half. The first thing I bought was the MP short block with 10.5 to 1. I stuck it under the bench (in the nice blue crate) and contiuned to gather parts. FINALLY I have everything to build the motor. I got the block out and started checking deck height and almost fell over! On the left bank all of the pistions were down in the hole, supposed to be zero deck, anywhere from 4 thousands to 7 thousands. Then the killer.....the right side were all positive! 4 thousands to 9 thousands......one was down 4 thousands on one side and out 16 thousands on the other! How could this be????? I contacted the dealer to get a replacement and he said "you have had that thing over a year, nothing I can do". OK, I took the block to a machine shop and they found a bent rod! If I had assembled the thing and turned it up to 6500....KER-POW! Now I have to buy a new rod and pistion and pay for labor. If I ever do it again, I'll build my own even if the costs are higher. I have heard of wrong size bearings, the wrong timing cover (my buddies had a magnum cover), and who knows what other problems they are having. If you buy one, check it right away!