BB A Block Header QQquestion for Christopher

[Brian C]

I read an article from back in summer about what you run in your dart. I am Putting a 440 in my Scamp. I DO NOT want fenderwell headers, I have a set of CPPA headers, but they are 2" and too large for my engine combo (I wanna keep some low end power). You run Doug Thorley Headers? Are they still availabale? Do they run under the chassis? What size tubes, where and how much?

[Christopher]

Supposedly,my headers were made by Doug Thorley.This is what we were told when we bought them.I contacted Thorley and they said they don't recall making such a header.These headers have 3 pipes in the chassis and 2 in the fenderwell.(# 8&5)I lke the headers except for the fact that the collectors angle toward the transmission and they interfer with using a trans shield.You said that 2" tubes are too big for what you are using.I would look at the headers that Schumacher Creative Services has.I've seen pictures of these and they look like a very nice set of tubes.BTW,the set I have was also sold by Pro Parts and Herb McCandless and they are both out of buisiness.I've heard the CPPA tubes don't fit that well,but I've never had a set.I do know that they don't produce the horsepower that a set of fenderwells or the partials like I have.My option at this point is to save up the bucks and buy a set of Stahl Headers,which are a race only header (and very expensive!!900.00!!)and have them Jet Hot coated.

[Brian C]

I remember seeing several articles about this issue. The reason I have the CPPAs is because I got a super good deal on them because the previous owner mashed the one tube next to the steering box, then gave up and went back to manifolds. Never even ran got them in the car! The headers you have must be the ones that my friend mentioned to me in that one or two of the tubes exit and re-enter the fenderwell close to the control arm. He said he can still get them (not sure if they are the same ones)and less exspensive than CPPAs. What was the size of your primary tubes and collectors? Also, I am not sure what you mean by transmission sheild? How low do these hang, and are there any custom mods to be made in order to run the exhaust to the rear of the car? I appreciate the info!
Brian C

[Christopher]

My headers are 2' diameter with a 3 1/2" collector.CPPA used to sell these same tubes years ago,in fact the first set we got were bent wrong and our car was used as a jig to get them sorted out.The tubes only have 1 tube on each side going thru the fenderwell.The trans shield is a piece of metal that covers the top and sides of the trans as a safety device instead of using a trans blanket(too hot)The headers have good ground clearance.They angle right at where the cutouts in the crossmember are for dual exhaust.

[Brian C]

OK...I understand what you mean by a trans sheild. But now, I am faced with the same problem with the tube size.My friend claims that these headers he is speaking of can be purchased in different tube/collector size combos. Sounds to me like you have what he is speaking of. I can assume that installation is quite a challenge, although I can't picture where the tube exits and enters the fenderwell. Is there any cutting or fabricating involved?
One other question...did you use K frame mounts or a motor plate? I may contact Schumacher to see if their motor mounts can withstand the torque and power of the 440. It is going to be a radical powerplant. I anticipate mid 10's without any nitrous, or blower or anything.Still trying to figure out which way I will hold this in there while it is being built.

[DartGT66]

I think the headers you are referring to were made by Pro-Parts, or at least were sold as Pro-Parts headers. If your engine is going to be radical, you aim at 10 sec. ET's normally aspirated and think that the CPPAs are too big for you, there is something wromg. I highly doubpt that the CPPAs are capable of producing power to mid tens. I have used them in a high 12 second car, and could have used more. Go with the Pro-Parts headers or fenderwells, if you really want to run the number. The CPPAs and the Schumachers are street headers, nothing radical there except that the CPPAs don't fit too well.

[Christopher]

My engine is mounted with the "elephant ear" setup.(a mini motor plate)I'm not sure of the headers your friend has.Pro Parts has been out of buisiness for at least 15 years.Bill Bagshaw owned Pro Parts and sold to Herb McCandless,who is also out of buisiness as of almost 2 years ago.The last set we bought was from Herb,and when I called about another set,he told me they would have to be made,so I didn't buy any at that time.The headers fit well,and there is only a small amount of trimming the fenderwell to get them to fit.The Schumacher headers will support 500 Hp.

[This message has been edited by Christopher (edited November 22, 1999).]

[River]

I just acquired a donor dart with a 440 and the CPPA headers...Im getting the schumacher ones. the CPPAs are impossibly tight. they're against the pass. inner fender. and the manual box. i just talked to schumacher...his are a three-step design w/2 1/2" collectors, the pass. one almost goes in without picking up the engine, driver side must be picked about an inch he said. they also fit PS and PB. plus they'd bring the torque curve down a bit from the 2" primaries, which would be nicer running on the street. they're $500 uncoated, 580 w/ nickel chrome. looking at the CPPA's in this donor car, i just can't justify bashing up my fresh body for what looks like an extreme comprimise, even though i got them for nothing.

[Brian C]

DartGT66:
Actually there is no problem at all with my combo using 1 7/8" headers. I am trying to locate alternatives to cutting up my fenderwells. Also, CPPA's are capable of 10's my friend has a 496ci in a 69 Swinger that runs 10.50s all day long with those CPPA headers. He has quite a different set up than I am using. His car works well with those headers but not in my case. I know what I need, just trying to locate them! Do you know if those Pro Parts/McCandless headers are still available? If so, perhaps you could direct me to where I could get some info about them. My friend has yet to get back with me!

[Christopher]

If anyone has info on the type of headers that I have now,as far as locating another set,please let me know.Contact me at cpd6200@yahoo.com Thanks!!

[Old hippie]

It seems to me that Herb McCandlis' head porter and all around engine guru (guy named Ken Lazuris or something like that) is working for Indy Cyl. Head now. If anyone is making that header design now it would seem like he would know.

The Old Hippie Hisself

[Christopher]

Good idea Ol'Hippie!! Actually,I just remembered that Herb's #1 sales guru named Steve is working for Hensley Racing Enterprises in Tennesee.So I'm going to call him and see what's up with these headers.

[Brian C]

Pleas please keep me posted Christopher. Especially if they have the size I need!

[Christopher]

I will,although it will probably be after the holiday before I know anything.