Front end Geometry & parts?

[racemkt]

OK guys, I could use some advice. (i'm trying to figure out how to attach photos so you can see what i'm talking about!) The E' body clip is about to be welded into the main rails (2 x 3 square tube) the chassis is sitting level & at ride Ht. (5"). I'm trying to get my RF lower arm to move 3 or 4" without any caster change.
With my center section of the chassis sitting level, does anyone know of any other reference point or measurement i can use besides bolting the front suspension in and checking it? I Want to finish the chassis and front hoop asap but ran into a problem with bolting up my front suspension to check the caster curve.
I tried to use A body lowers (longer). But found out the hard way that the pin for the lower bushing is different on A&E bodies! Don't have any E body lowers (junkyard I took the car from cut them with a torch years ago) Are the bushings the same? Can I just swap the E pin into the A arm using new bushings? Also, does anyone make steel bushings for the front ends of mopars? Have been told the poly type still flex too much. Any thoughts on what to use for bushings to hold the strut rod in place solidly without causing suspension bind or movement from deflection? Would the stock bushings be OK?
Do you guys have any suggestions for spindle application, centerlinks, idler arms, pitman arms etc that will get my bumpsteer close. I don't know enough about parts interchange yr. mk.& models. Any thoughts on a roll center Ht. (5/8mile high bank asphalt track 7 1/2" tire Hoosier street TD type) or spindle & upper a arms that would be a good application. I know I'm asking a lot, but I want this thing to be right and be fast! Need to make up for my lack of funds for a big motor. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks ---Jim

[DYNO360]

RACEMKT, I have found a salvage yard in Texas that has good parts and good service. They can UPS you just about any suspension part. I even got a rear leaf spring, used but in mint condition. Try www.drmopar.com

[daveashsr]

hi hope i can help out a little bit !! first yes u can swap the pins for the lower as the bushings are the same ! as for steel bushings we had a machine shop make a set up for us and so far they seem to be working with no problems ,we did drill threw the lower arm and bushing and installed a grease fitting ! as far as the struts go we weleded a 1x3 tube to the front of the frame and used hime joints ! it took a little time but works good when finished. good luck
david

[racemkt]

Thanks for the help guys. Will try to get a set of bushings made so I can swap the pins. Like the idea of a heim joint on the front strut!
I've heard of that salvage yard, sounds like a good source. Finding the parts isn't so bad, it's figuring out what parts to get! All the chassis books are great for G.M.s, they tell you exactly what year make and model for parts to get correct bumpsteer & stuff. But we're screwed. The aftermarket suppliers think you are from Mars if you ask them about front end kits like their G.M. packages for Mopars!
I was hoping someone else had already been through this grief and could save me a lot of time. I promise that if I ever figure out what parts work best, I will post it. Until then, it's back to the junkyard with my tape measure and calculator! YAA.-KNOOOOW,,, golf is startin' to took like a better way to waste my life........NAAAAAHHH!
( for you southern boys, that's New England speak for NO)
It's like "Havin' a bee-ah with Lobstaah aftah I pa-aked my kaah in da ya-ad!"

[racemkt]

Ok guys, here's another one for you? While in the shop playing with the front clip today, I noticed the E body spindles have the caliper mounted in front and the A body spindles have them in the rear. ( Yeah I know..i'm a little slow sometimes, that forest through the trees thing!)
Other than that, they appear to be the same. Does one have an advantage-disadvantage over the other? Brake torque or anti-dive sort of thing? We must run stock brake parts w/drums in rear (open rear end) Can run a brake bias valve & aftmkt pedals and reservoirs. Any thoughts on the caliper positioning?
As always.....thanks for your input! Jim C.
Ps: large banked asphalt track if it matters

[RonsDirt]

Caster Gain (Also called Anti-Dive) or loss is due to how the control arms attach to the frame. I.E.: If on the Upper control arm the Front mount is higher than the rear mount (to the Frame) then you have caster gain. On the lower arm if the front mount is lower than the rear you have caster gain. What this means that the corner that has caster gain THINKS that it has a stiffer spring when the suspension compress. On High speed asphalt tracks most people use 3-4 deg. of caster gain on RF and 0 on LF. On dirt We might use 2-3 on RF and 3-5 on LF to plant LF harder. This can be checked with a Angle finder across the mounts.

Hope this helps.

[racemkt]

I'm suffering from self-inflicted headaches caused by thinking about this waaaaaayyyyyy too much!

The relationship between caster gain & anti-dive never dawned on me before. Always looked at them as two seperate things? Now I see the light. So here's what I'm going to try...

I'm just going to bolt in a lower arm and a strut rod, nothing else. then I'm going to raise and lower the nose of the front clip until i get the least amount of caster change possible in 4' travel. (preferably 0) What ever angle the clip ends up at...too bad, that's where it's staying!!

Then I will just try to get what I need for camb/cast gain all from the upper arms when I mount them. Problem is everything except bushings are supposed to be stock including all mounting points. But even if i'm off a little, it should be close enough to work with. At least i can get the clip on.
Thanks for the input, it's much appreciated. --JC

[Racedude_5]

The good thing about running Mopar with most teck inspectors is they dont know what stock is on a Mopar!!

[racemkt]

You're not going to belive this, but the tech guy for this division is a die-hard Mopar freak! In fact he used to run in the division many years ago. Good news... He's a great guy who understands the problems unique to the mopars (only 1 currently running in the class) and is very helpful. Bad news... If I start moving mounting points and doing wierd stuff to get the front end right, he'll spot it in a minute!

[RonsDirt]

It is not hard to CHEAT, if you look at your GM budddies Upper control arm mount and See a BIG flat washer, you can bet the holes are slotted. I don't know which upper arm you are using, but if it is the one with Cams, just make one go UP and the other go Down.
Tech. that out.

[racemkt]

These guys up here don't even try to hide stuff like that! They have a better idea for the GM metric cars...are you ready for this...very carefully and neatly cut off the upper mount completely with a torch or plasma cutter, rotate it so the angle is parrallel with the lower and reweld it! " See Mr. tech inspector.. STOCK upper mounts!" Its never what the rules say, it's what the tech guy allows!

So, if I cut my upper mount off the frame rail, trim a little here and there to help my caster, then gain some "extra" static camber when re-welding (by mistake of course)....."But Mr. Tech Man..look, it's all stock parts!"..."I know the rules say I can't swap upper control arms from side to side, but it doesn't say I can't swap the entire upper mount!"

Hey! What's up with this smiley faced guy with the guns blasting away? is he a Chevy guy or something. They guy with the help sign must race a Ford! The guys arguing looks like a tech inspector and someone with a "creative interpretation" of the rules! The guy crying just finished his discussion with the tech man!