Torsion-Bar 440 Charger Header Recommendations?

[MoPaul]

I need a set of headers for my 73 Charger with 440. This was the first year for the torsion-quiet ride, so my choices will be limited. Does anyone have any recommendations for this application?
I was impressed with the Thorleys I have. I would like something comparable, if anyone may know of any. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I had hoped to have her on the road for my birthday, but due to waiting 3 weeks for these headers and the screwing with them for another two weeks while trying to figure out what was wrong, that can't happen now. But I hope to have her on the road soon.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time and concideration.

[Tarrbabe]

What is different about your car? Chrysler used torsion bars for years before your model. Any headers from any company for the 440 Charger will work. TTI is what most people talk about. I like Hookers.

[MoPaul]

The 73 Dodge line-up "catalog" shows the torsion quiet ride's improvements over prior years as having an isolated front suspension crossmember separated from the body by rubber mounts. I don't know if this moved the torsion bars or what, but the Thorley's are not abpout to go in there. The steering coupling was the first problem i encountered. After flattening the #1 to clear this out of desparation to get the car running, I got the driver's side in. The passenger's side was so easy that I chose to do it last. It slid in and out with plenty of clearance. I raised the engine and slid the driver's side into place, and tightened her down. When I lowered the engine, I hadn't noticed that the engine was leaning so badly against the torsion bars that it was over about 2"(estimated) from the stock location. The passenger side will not go closer than 1/2" to the exhaust ports.
But, the initial problem persists, does anyone know if my torsion bars are in a different location from the 72? This was a hasty assumption and I apologize (and am ashamed) for having made it. Thank you for pointing that out.

[dirty dan]

I have a 73 SE it to is a 440 car.I run hooker compation series ,it doesn`t matter what headers you put on. You will still have to hold your mouth just right to change the plugs. The B & E body headers are the same. Iwonder if you have the right ones . As far as the 72 to73 swap ability they take the same header. take both motor mounts lose. Raise the engine about to inches .Take out the two starter bolts . remove the header and the starter together as one . This should help lower your blood press.

[beepbeepsrule]

What engine was the car built with? Big blocks will bolt up to a small block K-member but the actual k-member for big-blocks moves the mounts down and to the passenger side a little.

I do know that the headers for an isolated k-member car and the earlier cars are the same because I have installed headers on big-blocks in more than one (74 Charger, 75 Fury, 77 Cordoba). They were all original big-block cars though.

If your car is an original big-block or at least has the big-block k-member then the problem is definitely with the headers themselves.

[Neptune]

I've got a '73 SE that I will be putting headers on so this is a good thread for me.
I have the TTI brochure in my hand. For the 66-74 B bodies 1 7/8" headers it says "coumn shift requires modified torque shaft assembly (sold seperately)" It doesn't show a photo of the torque shaft, so i don't know what that is exactly. Says they'll fit Mopar Stage 5, 6 and Edelbrock, but not Indy-SR

[beepbeepsrule]

The torque shaft is part of the shifting linkage for the column shift cars and runs across the gap between the frame and the tranny dead center of where the header wants to pass thru. I just turned the brackets upside down to move it up and that usually worked with little or no actual mods to the parts. The rod from the column shifter ends up being a little long and sticking out the bottom of the re-located torque shaft but you can saw it off if that bugs you or just leave it long in case you need to put it all back. A console shifted car does not have this linkage, so one less thing in the way.

[MoPaul]

This was originally a 340 Rallye, so it has the heavier torsion bars and upgraded braking system, which was convenient for the swap. Since the RB with aluminum heads weighs less than a small block, the suspension issue was not a problem anyway. But I did use Schumaker's kit from www.engine-swaps.com so the engine sits now in the stock location, or so they say. Judging by reputation, I would assume this to be correct. The shifter is a Slap-Stik, so also not an issue.
For the record, the motor mounts were not even on when I was doing this. I had full mobility of the engine on the hoist. Only the passenger side was ever even leaning on the mount. For those unfamiliar, the driver's side is a "drill a new hole and run a bolt through it" procedure. The passenger side can still slide in and out of the groove as needed. The valve covers are only dust covers. I left everything for ease of installation.
The Thorleys just don't fit between the torsion bars. It ain't happening. I wanted the 14 gauge nickel plated steel. That's why I went with them. I really wish they would work. I am really impressed by them. But then again, a 747 would get me to work quick, but won't fit in the garage, so it's of no use to me, either. I just wish I didn't have to make a $300+ investment to find this out.
So, so far we only know that the Hooker Super Comps work well. I was hoping for something thicker, not in any way degrading them, since obviously my decision didn't go well.

[72Challenger]

MoPaul, I have to disagree with you on your statement about engine weights. An RB engine is listed at 670 lbs., a 273-340 A weighs 525, the 360 is 550. So unless your aluminum heads weigh 145 pounds less than the iron, you're still heavier. I believe the actual savings is about 25 lbs. each, so you're still about 95 lbs. heavier than the original 340.

[MoPaul]

My apologies, I read that previously elsewhere on this board that a big block with aluminum heads and intake weighed less than a small block. Good information is always appreciated, especially when it replaces bad informaion I may have spread to others. Thank you.

[MoPaul]

Hookers interfere with the steering column on the #7 primary. Dirty Dan, does yours not have the 2pc coupling and another 3"long x 1-1/2 or so piece up the shaft towards the steering wheel? The coupling isn't the problem this time, but the other piece is now the problem.
Any other ideas?
I have pictures of all this poop and will post them if anyone doubts. Is it possible to change the steering column to a 72 or before? Please someone help me or kill me.
Update: I dropped the steering column and was able to get the header in. It does fit well and doesn't interfere with anything else.
But the piece I was unable to identify was a knuckle on the column. With the column pulled to the side, if you turn the wheel, the knuckle can clear. But it has to be pulled over byt something. I wasn't hoping for a hack job with a suplly of wires ties to be able to spin the wheel. Any ideas? This can't be as hard as it is going thus far...
Well, I paid the extra pennies for Kodak max, then got the 1-hour photo developing so I could show you all the problems. Unfortunately, the engine compartment is black without flash, and blurry as hell with. I had a tough time telling what the pictures were of, so I will not waste my time putting these here.

[451Mopar]

On the engine weights, I think the Aluminum heads reduce the engine weight about #50 (depends on the heads), bit replacing the intake with an aluminum one probbably saves another #20?
Then the heavy manifolds, replaced with headers would save even more weight. If you have the money, the Mopar aluminum water pump housing and aluminum water pump also helps to reduce the engines weight.

On the headers, what performance level is the engine?
You need to decide what size primary tubes you need.
Some headers use 1-3/4" tubes which are good for low end torque and mild big block engines, expecially works well with the 383. The larger 440 and higher performance engines making approximatly 425 to 550 Hp work good with the 1-7/8" Header.
Above about 525+ HP the 2" headers are the way to go for performance, but they are a really tight fit (may need to be modified for the '73 and up chassis too.)

I can not really help you with fit on the '73 and up B-body as I haven't had a big block in one of these models.

In the Hooker compitition series (1-7/8" primary) they claim that the #5903 will fit, but under the 1975 Chrysler Cordoba (simular K-frame setup as the '73 up B-body), they say the header will a 400 block? so this could mean fitment problems withthe taller deck 440?
In the Hooker Super Comp series there are three big block headers. The #5111 which is 1-3/4" primary tube size.
The #5101 which is 1-7/8" primary size indicated note #26 - Will not fit 440 in 1973 and up B-Body.
The #5209 Which is 2" Primary size, does not have the #26 note?
It may fit, but I know they are a tight fit on my 1971 Charger?

Anyhow, if you want the 1-7/8" tube size, the Compitition series may work, but not the super comp version?

Dynomax/Blackjack headers list #85034 (1-3/4") tube size as fitting your aplication also.

I have not checked TTI's web page to see what headers they have that will fit?

[MoPaul]

I got the 2" hooker Competition Series. I wanted the thicker tubes for longevity. I needed the larger tubes because I am going forced injection. The recipe from ATI procharger gave over 900hp on pump gas. My combination will be more tame, but over 700hp. Exhaust is the key in forced induction, so that's where I stand.
Does the RB push the exhaust flange outward? If the headers were about 5/8" inward, the shaft would clear.

[MoPaul]

I didn't know why I took this at the time, but it is about the only pic that turned out. You can see here the #1 primary on the Thorley (nickel-plated, at top) is the problem, the #7 is way out of the way. The Hooker is free and clear on the #1, but the #7 drops right down into the steering column.

[dirty dan]

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Iam not sure of what you`r asking .If you click the profile button you will find my email address send me pic and a discription . I`d beglad to help any way I can. Looking for your email DIrty Dan

[MoPaul]

Dirty Dan, it won't let me email you. Did your #7 primary come close to your steering?
Above the 2piece coupling (just above the power steering) there is about 1" of shaft then a sleeve wherein there is a knuckle of some kind, allowing the shaft to slide about 1-1/2" sideways either way. That is against my #7 primary.
If yours doesn't have this "socket/ knuckle" then mine must have come from something else.
I have phone number of a guy who specializes in 71-72 Charger parts, I will call him tomorrow and see if the steering shafts are different, if he has one, and if it will fit, I will buy it. There has got to be a way around the problem.

[dkn1997]

Have you considered shorty tube headers? I am pretty sure sanderson makes them for a 440. I know that the short tubes are not as good for low end torque, but shouldn't the supercharger help there? It would all depend on the tube diameters they offer, of course. try searching for their website, I went on it a while ago and did see 440 short tube (block hugger headers)