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#1
06-23-2002, 11:43 PM
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Anti-Pump Lifters? supposed to tick, or not?
hey all, finally got my beast running with my new cam. heres a link to a thread where i put all my specs, i really don't wanna type them again
 http://www.moparchat.com/forums/show...threadid=54491 ok, my question... are anti-pump lifters supposed to tick when the motor warms up? i just put a new thermostat in because my 190 degree wasn't opening till about 210, so i put my old 160 in that works. i only took it out in the first place for the winter but anyways... when my motor warms up, even with the water temp under 190, the oil psi drops to around 30 and the lifters start to clatter a little...is this normal? we're about to order a Hi-Volume oil pump.....car quest's quality really sucks, the timing gear they sold us for $70 broke, and the one from Advance Auto Parts that was only $15 is still good... we have adjusted, and re-adjusted our adjustable roller rockers about 7 times tonight...the valve cover gaskets are gettin worn...  we are setting the lash to .000 on the roller rockers, while it is hot...thanx, i value all info, opinions (whether they dog my car or not, i just ignore those ) and input.... i really don't wanna flatten another cam, i do have a spare, but its not as big, the perf. range is only 3, not 4....but i don't have to have a vacuum resevoir to run my power brakes
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#2
06-23-2002, 11:54 PM
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Tick Tick
I belive the way thoose lifters work is the bleed off oil press. to trick the engine into thinking the cam is smaller than it is, at low RPM's. So at idle when hot they may tick? I have not used them myself, I have looked at them as more of a bandaid fix.
But, if they help in your case I don't see a problem with them. The high volume pump may help quit her down some, and probally would be good insurance! I would try it out, too bad it's not a big block, it would be much easier 
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#3
06-24-2002, 12:16 AM
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well, we were thinkin about an oil cooler with fan, oil temp guage, and figured we might as well get a different oil pump...
thanx, thats kinda what i wanted to hear, just don't wanna flatten the cam, BIG!! my 340 sounds MUCH different than it did before, now it kinda sounds like my brothers 440...slow lopey idle, very tough, deep roar!
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#5
06-24-2002, 02:40 AM
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you know, my dad was saying sumthin about a spring when we had the pan off, but he never did get anything... i agree with you though, i need to keep things well lubricated...
i'll let him know, but i'm not really looking foward to taking that damned pan off again...  thanx
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#6
06-24-2002, 07:12 AM
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There supposed to tick. Because the metering of the oil has a large hole to keep it bled down. It takes a few rpm to pump them up. Also your roller rockers are adding to the noise.
Do your oil pump! Allways good to have lots of pressure. tooomuch2is right. Or, a new pump all together. An oil cooler is an excellent idea.
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#7
06-24-2002, 09:33 AM
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On a big block you don't need to remove the pan to install the high pressure relief spring. The oil pump is on the side of the motor and all you need to do is buy part no P4286571 and install it. Should give you up to 70 psi of oil pressure.
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#8
06-24-2002, 09:42 AM
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.000 lash????
I think you need to have some preload on those lifters...have you tried setting them to zero and then giving them 1/2 turn?? I could be wrong as I'm not a hydraulic lifter guy... Hey Rumblefish...what's your take on this deal?
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#9
06-24-2002, 01:36 PM
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the book sais .000 - .002 lash, and if we do go 1/2 turn more, then there is no compression because the valves are held down. if we back it off 1/2 turn then we can wiggle them, and garuntee they will tick then.
these are very touchy bastards, maybe an 1/8 of a turn, or just a "cunt hair" is what my dad said this isn't a big block either, i like small blocks better. they don't have the torque, or the cid, but mine gets better gas milage than my brothers 440, and it revs quicker. course, we built my brothers 440 to be mild, cause my brother is deaf and really not into the whole dragging thing. we didn't wanna go too high performance because its always good to be able to hear the motor, and he cant hear so.... oh, and these part numbers....which book or site?? P.A.W? summit? Jcwhitney? i also agree that i need higher oil psi. i think dad is going to go ahead and order a high volume pump from advance auto, and pickup an oil temp guage. in the future we'll probably pickup a tranny temp guage, and i told him about the thread here of where to mount the sender. i don't have an aftermarket cooler, it is going through the radiator so i figure the temp there will be close to water temp, so i think i'll go ahead and put it in the pan...
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#10
06-24-2002, 02:49 PM
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cuda66273
Thoust be correct. The preload will vary abit, but theres a bunch of play in a Hyd. lifter. About .050 a distance should be enuff preload. I just forget if the range is .100 or .120 on the lifter. I'll have to look later. (Between feedings for the baby. It's hard enuff to type with one hand.  )I'll be back later with the spec unless I get beat to the reply.
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#11
06-24-2002, 10:33 PM
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whoops...
Missed your roller rocker set up... Big time.... You need more volume and definately more pressure... Who's roller rockers are they? The shafts are wrong unless they are harlands... Be very careful... Advise on those rockers... & I will tell you how to fix them or at least what we do to fix them and what no manufacture (except harland) will admit too... 
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#12
06-25-2002, 03:06 AM
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they are Mopar Performance Roller Rockers. they came with the shafts...
i can use all the advice i can get. first off...i'm adjusting these by getting TDC on every cyl. one at a time and doing both arms the same... the damned things didn't come with any instructions on how to set them... thanx for all the help
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#13
06-25-2002, 09:42 AM
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Roskers
I use crane roller rockers w/ their chrome moley shafts. I broke my cam in w/ zero lash and a extra half turn. Then readjusted it to 1 full turn but still had some clatter so i went to a 1/12 turns and thats seems best . No clatter and runs great. Try using mopar valve adjusting chart . this worked best for me and they say it more accurate. They have a 8 crank position way to adjust two vavle at a time,this works better than the 4 position. If you cant find it i will try and copy it for you.
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#14
06-25-2002, 10:27 AM
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Well my Daddy is long gone now but when I was just a wee little boy he taught me how to adjust hydraulic lifters......I think this should work even today...but as I said before I've never messed with hydraulics much......
According to Dad.....40 years of twisting wrenches With the engine at idle, valve covers off, you back off the adjusting nut until it ticks, tighten until it just stops then add the desired preload, some take 1/2 turn some more, and yes it seems the valve is open but that settles down in a few seconds. My Dad did alot of work on Fords on weekends for extra money, I remember he had a set of 289 valve covers with the top cut out, he'd install these covers on the engine to stop the oil from squirting all over the fenders while he adjusted them. What do you think Rumblefish? Is there some new technique that I don't know about with these Hyd rollers?
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#15
06-25-2002, 10:45 AM
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Thats the way I was taught. I didn't care for the oil splatter. I should have done that "Cut the cover trick." My teeth were cut on freinds Chevy's, so that was the norm on a cam swap.
The new trick would be how it is described in the MoPar cam valve lash adjustment chart. If beeman can't find it, I'll try to look for mine. Just saw it the other day while cleaning up the garage mess. I think the technice is described in the engines book. I don't remember. Basicaly, it requires you to turn the engine a little at a time. It gives it in 90* turns I believe. At each 90* turn, another set of valves is at a point of closed, on the base cicle of the cam. Adjust the pushrod to depress the lifter .050-.060 down. Of course, @ this point, the rocker tip is on the valve tip. ***Just incase your doing this for the first time, take out the spark plugs. It makes turning the engine a whole lot easier. ***
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#16
06-25-2002, 10:55 AM
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Another trick the Old Man taught me was to use the 8 point method then adjust the lash while turning the push rod with 2 fingers, as soon as you couldn't rotate the pushrod that was zero, then give 'em one turn, fire it up and do final adjusting...on stock motors that's all he would do, bolt down the valve covers and drive it out of garage....done, where's my money
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#17
06-25-2002, 11:15 AM
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Ha ha ha ha ROFLMAO !!! Been there done that...gettin paid baby!
Ahhhhh, the little tricks in life... 
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#18
06-25-2002, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
also, these are not hydraulic roller lifters, i have roller rocker arms for the hydraulic anti-pump lifters...
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#19
06-25-2002, 09:46 PM
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jeeeeesus guys! hey, just adjust the rocker to 0 lash(motor not running)that means taking two fingers and turning the adj nut until the push rod does not spin. then adjust 1/2 turn. thats it! do it any more and you can risk your lifter bottoming out and damaging your cam, plus more damage at higher rpms! you may get a little ticking but it shouldn't be loud or get louder at higher rpms. if it does then you have a colapsed lifter.
 to find it just run a idle and feel each rocker or put a little pressure on each one until you feel it or the noise disapears.
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#20
06-25-2002, 09:58 PM
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thanx 6pakman...although, i'm not too sure about one part of your instructions...after i adjust to where i can't spin the rod, to i turn the nut 1/2 tighter (down - clockwise) or 1/2 looser (up - counter clockwise)??
thanx a bunch, that at least makes sense to me...
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#21
06-25-2002, 11:38 PM
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adjusting lifters
I have used the old method that they are talking about w/ the engine running it is the quickest way but messy!
You don't want your fingers down there while she is running If you are going to adjust it with the engine NOT running then rotate it till the exhaust valve closes for the cyl. you are adjusting, you can got a couple of deg past to make sure that you are on the base circle of the cam. Tighten the rocker that you are spinning w/ your finger and thumb, when it stops turning then go 1/4 to 1/2 of a turn TIGHTER. that will pre-load the lifter a little. This should be where you want to be, the oil press. should take care of the rest! Don't go too far or you will bend a pushrod! Hope this helps, and BTW I like the Big Motors better, I'll give ya some pro's and con's latter
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#23
06-25-2002, 11:49 PM
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i found a high volume oil pump in stock at advance auto parts...i think i'll change that and run through and retighten my rockers a little again, how i've been doing it. if it still ticks i'll let you know and adjust them a different way. thanx though!
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#24
06-26-2002, 12:44 AM
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Remember Roadrunner...
Two seperate but equally important components... Oil Volume and oil pressure... You need to increase both. Regarding the mopar roller rockers - same as crane (crane makes them for mopar). The shafts need to be drilled so the pushrod get oil (Chrysler spec). These new setups are not being drilled or are being drilled wrong! Banana groove shafts will do nothing for your pushrod and frankly I won't leave pushrod oiling to "oil splash" in the valve covers. Trust me as we have found after cooking rockers and bending pushrods...
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#25
06-26-2002, 12:46 AM
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Hey 72Roadrunner...don't get so excited....relax....have a drink....pet the dog....that method is for individual rockers like on a chebby or little fird, if you look at my next post you'll see how to do it on a shaft rocker system.
Adding preload refers to tightning the nut...lefty lucy-righty tighty
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#26
06-26-2002, 12:59 AM
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i don't have a dog... i have a cat...a big one at that! she weighs about 21 lbs...
i like cats cause they don't take up too much bed space, and you don't usually have to bathe them, unless they really get into sumthin they don't wanna lick off
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#27
06-26-2002, 05:37 AM
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lifters
anti-pump up lifters are basically a solid lifter with a resevior for oil, just tighten them to zero lash, then find and tighten the noisy ones. if you tighten them 1/4 or 1/2 turn, then you take out all the give in them, stock hydraulic lifters are the ones with .050-.060 of play in them NOT the anti-pumps.
I guess you could say that they adjust like solids, but turn a smidge farther than zero, and by smidge I mean a smidge, just barely.
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#28
06-26-2002, 09:32 AM
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i wouldt adjust a thing untill you fix your oil pressure (or lack of) problem!
 5th
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#29
06-26-2002, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
thats what i've got planned for today, adjust them, then right away drain the oil, off with the steering, then the right header, unhook the right muffler, THEN i can take the oil pan off  OY! too many things....
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#30
06-26-2002, 05:34 PM
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Vavle adjust
RoadRunner i would put the pump in first then run it for awile to make sure the lifters are fully pumped up then shut it down and let it cool for a 1/2 hour or so then adjust them, that way they have'nt bleed off at all and you can get a nice accurate setting. Works good for me. Really theres nothing to it once you do it the right way.Again try Mopars Way .
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