electric water pumps

[GEARHED]

does anyone have any real world experience with'em??? I've heard claims of up to 20 hp on the top end. I'm considering on my 340/auto strip/street Dart....always looking for another tenth or two.

[Doug Wilson]

I understand that they absolutely will NOT work on the street. Flow is fixed and power drain is too much. So... they won't keep you cool and they kill your battery!!

[cuda66273]

Doug's right....won't work for street use

It cut about .05 off our ET when we dumped all the belts and pully's.

[PaulS]

There are street electric water pumps available that use a stand-alone centrifugal pump and electronic controller. It's an Australian company that I believe is fairly well known in the states for thermo/ clutch fans called Davies Craig. Their gear is top quality.

Try www.daviescraig.com.au/

Cheers, Paul.S

[Doug Wilson]

Cool! How much do they cost to get on a car here in the states?

[Doug Wilson]

I went to their site, and it looks like the pump and controller are $398 USD. If one failed under their 2 year warranty (or after), where could you go locally for exchange or repair - like, I'm on a road trip in Southern Idaho - where can I get parts for it or exchange it, if it fails??

I really like the site, and I'd really like to have one for my tow motor. Should I buy the booster pump and controller also?

[440valleytank]

The davies craig fans are top quality but two blokes I know that run the water pumps have had them replaced (no cost) we think this maybe because the cars ares mainly used for drags so they sit around not run for a while and a seal in the pump drys out causing them to leak (not a major but still a leak).
I am currently (10 months) running the moroso bolt in pump on my 440 street & strip and have nothing but prise for it the longest trip I've done to date is 400kilometres with no over heating what so ever .
runs about 10 f cooler on street and has a 4000 hr seal life.
if I had to buy another pump for a car I'd go for the moroso electric pump from summit or jegs
summit P/No mor-63565 (273-360)
mor-63575 (383-440)

[Doug Wilson]

I looked at that pump. called Moroso, and they said it is not recommended for street use. If the manufacturer won't stand behind it for a specific application, I'm not about to buy it (maybe).

[440valleytank]

Thanks Doug.
When I seen the pumps in the Jegs catalog 14-16 months ago the ad said for street & Strip use? thats what made me go with the moroso pump. Maybe I've just been lucky so far but it has and still is proforming really well and my car is driven to and from the track about and 2hrs each way with a 1400 foot hill to go over . Like I said maybe luck but I will keep the old pump and belt in the boot from now on .

Cheers
Tim

[Mister Fiberglass]

I have looked into this and done some limited homework........

20 horsepower??.........at the very VERY least BUT you have to be VERY careful. If the belt or electric motor fails ...... and you don't realize it......the engine is TOAST......complete and TOTAL toast.

I was looking into a variable speed 12 volt motor that would run at different speeds depending on what the engine speed was and also hooking up an engine kill-switch that would STOP the engine DEAD - if there was a sudden/sharp rise in water temp. PLUS in a street car - it would be wise to have a spare belt or two AND a spare motor that you could just pop-on IF the other one failed.

PLUS that 12 volt drive system would work GREAT - just turned on at the drag-strip to cool your "stuff" between rounds. A dual battery sytem would be in order for something like this to be safe.

[Doug Wilson]

I think you are right about the HP gains, Mr. F. - a regular water pump would likely be like a belt driven supercharger - the more horses (or RPM, in the belt's case), the higher the parasitic drag.

It should be pretty easy to wire up a sensor of some sort that could indicate when the electric motor quit running and give you a warning - red light, audible buzzer. Might be a bad idea to have your engine suddenly quit running.

I think you ought to have dual batteries whenever you install parts that stress your electical system. Preferably mounted behind your right rear tire. Although, I think some race sanctioning bodies prohibit 2 batteries.

The idea of carrying all those extra parts around strikes me as sort of a leap back to 1920, when photos of the cars show them carrying stacks of spare tires. If the system is that marginal, maybe look for another approach - like we have been doing on tires?

[Mister Fiberglass]

Somewhat unusual observation there DW............

An adapted electric motor - since it would be a somewhat modified it fit a custom application AND the importance of same in the safe operation of the engine....not to carry a spare?

Whatever floats your boat !

Dual batteries on a bracket car?........I used to do that myself. As far as any rules against that now..........I don't know.

[Doug Wilson]

I'm gonna go back to the Davies whatever site and ask the cost for spares. Probably take a couple of days for an answer. If it can be made to work, I'd really like to do it on the tow motor.

[Mister Fiberglass]

Davies?.............I think that you would have to have a GOOD hi-quality 12v motor to do this job.

A Moroso type, typical heater fan motor or rad fan motor would NOT cut-the-mustard.

[Doug Wilson]

I agree. I sent the email, so now I'll see what they say.

[GEARHED]

speaking of varaable speed 12v motors, it seems like it would possible to wire a rheostat inline with the pump....you would be able to control the speed( rate of flow) of the pump. Granted there would be nothing automatic about this type of control, you'd really have to stay on top of it. But after awile I'm sure it would be second nature, you'd know exactly what you'd need for idleing......crusing.....freeway driving or racing. Just a thought.

[Doug Wilson]

Yep ... good thought.

[mauve66]

meizere (sp) has been advertising an electric pump designed for the street, I forget the advertised hours of use but I think it cost close to $400 bucks................. and the Auto Zone in Timbuk2 on the way to/from the show where you got 1st place doesn't have a replacement.................

[Mister Fiberglass]

6er.........that Mez pump and housing assembly is a PRETTY piece but I would not trust the quality-look of that electric motor. On a race-only car....NO problem BUT something that would be run for hours at a time - I would think would need ball/needle bearings etc.....and a EZ exhangable option

[Doug Wilson]

Amazingly enough, I have already recieved a reply from Davies whatever in Australia!!

Here is the complete text of our discussion, so far:

----- Original Message -----
From: Davies, Craig Pty Ltd
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 7:32 PM
To: doug wilson
Subject: Re: Spares

DEAR DOUG,

THANKS FOR YOUR EMAIL AND ENQUIRY.

At 12:43 PM 7/14/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Greetings,
>
> I recently heard of your company on moparchat.com. There are several of
> us in the states interested in using your water pump for street
> applications. We are concerned about replacement of parts, particularly
> in street applications. My own application is for a 440 MOPAR engine of
> 452 cu in used in a towing vehicle, towing horses over mountains for long
> distances.


WILL YOU DISABLE THE BELT DRIVEN MECHANICAL PUMP OR WILL YOU USE THE EWP BY
WAY OF A BOOSTER PUMP.?

DO YOUR ENGINES OVERHEAT IN THE HIGH LOAD - HIGH AMBIENT CONDITION NOW ?

PLS. SEE TECHNICAL BULLETIN ON THIS SUBJECT ATTACHED.


> What would it cost to obtain spare motors and seals, etc. for your
> pumps. THE MOTORS ARE ABOT THE SAME PRICE OF A PUMP BODY AND THE SEALS
> ARE FREE OF CHARGE,
>
> Also, would your booster pump be needed when using your water pump - in
> a high load/high ambient temperature environment?
ONLY TO ASSIST THE HEATER CIRCUIT IF YOU DISABLE THE MECHANICAL PUMP
AND THE COOLANT "PLUMBING" I SUCH THAT THERE IS REDUCED FLOW THROUGH THE
HEATER CIRCUIT.

>
> Thank you for your attention. NO TROUBLE
>
>Regards,
>Doug Wilson


BEST REGARDS

RICHARD DAVIES
MANAGING DIRECTOR

DAVIES, CRAIG PTY. LTD.

TEL +61 (0)3 9646 3051 FAX +61 (0)3 9646 2632
BOX 176, 30 BEACONSFIELD PARADE
PORT MELBOURNE, VICTORIA 3207, AUSTRALIA

************************************************** **************************
DAVIES, CRAIG HAS LAUNCHED ITS SECOND AUTO ELECTRIC WATER PUMP, THE EBP -
ELECTRIC BOOSTER PUMP - DETAILS ON EWP, EBP AND ALL OUR PRODUCTS ARE ON OUR
WEB PAGE www.daviescraig.com.au

EWP TESTS RESULTS AT www.fordmuscle.com UNDER "COOL RUNNINGS"
************************************************** *************************

Pretty quick response, eh! More to follow.

[Mister Fiberglass]

oppps !

[Mister Fiberglass]

LET us see...............300 to 1300 gallons per hour?...depending on an input of 4 to 14 volts?........What The Fudge?

And a total life of 2000 hours?..............for a price of 400 dollars?

I am sure that we all can find a PREMIUM needle bearing compact medium speed 12volt electric motor with LOTS more life than that for well under a hundred dollars.

And the adapting that to a stock pump assembly would be a snap. HELL - if you want to - the bracketry is available from Moroso or Mr Gasket to eyeball to adapt to this piece.

Your thoughts?

[Doug Wilson]

I think you are pretty creative, and could make something like that work. I'd buy one from youe.

[Mister Fiberglass]

YOU talkin' to ME??.......DW !!

You in a reading mood??..........wanna' get blown-over by a feather ???!!!!

READ that Ford Magazine article about that EWP............DAMN !!

[PaulS]

I think the easiest way to have a back-up system with one of these EWP's is to leave the water pump in-situ with the pulley, and run the alternator from the crank with a shorter fanbelt.

All you need then is the original belt in the boot (trunk) just in case..... all this assumes that you're happy to run with only an electric cooling fan.....

Cheers, Paul.S

[cuda66273]

Hey Doug....you sent the email to me???? did you take your little blue pill this morning?

Two batteries are fine in NHRA

I run the Moroso belt driven pump, carry a spare belt, motor and 2 pulleys, never had to use any of them in 2 years but I have them in the big aluminum box just in case.

If you want to run a temp sensor your local NAPA store should be able to help you out. I believe the sensors they sell all go to ground so when your wiring one up keep that in mind.

We use an adjustable type sensor that has a sending unit that goes into the upper radiator hose, this is connected to the main electric cooling fan, at 170 it clicks on wether the switch is on or not. The second fan is a manual switch controlled by the driver and the fan is mounted right behind the tranny cooler I turn this one on at the burnout box and off at the end of the track

Of course all these fans are wired thru relays on the main electrical panel.

[Mister Fiberglass]

ANYONE else read that Ford Muscle article on this EWP?

ANYONE see what I see.....just on the first page?

[Doug Wilson]

I'd read it if I could find a link.

[Mister Fiberglass]

ME giving someone internet advise.....!!!!!

YOUR Davies link then at the top EWP - THEN Ford Muscle link....

ENJOY...........

[Doug Wilson]

Read the article - seems slick. 2000 hours of run time is constant running, eight hours a day, for 250 days. Most of us would use it less than half that amount, so it should last, at least, a year and a half in normal operation.