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  #1  
Old 07-14-2002, 02:42 AM
PapaBato PapaBato is offline
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Default Nitrous...

Hey everyone, i'm looking into getting a 75-125 shot of nitrous on my car and i was wondering what it would take to ensure that i dont blow my motor. It's a stock (as far as i know) '68 440 with a 750 carter carb. thanks
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  #2  
Old 07-14-2002, 03:17 AM
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1972roadrunner 1972roadrunner is offline
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hmm...if you have cast pistons, i wouldn't do it. i've got my 340 setup for 180 shot, but i haven't run it yet cause i'm workin out bugs in my valvetrain...

heres a couple of things my NOS instruction book says: note, this is for my system, which is from 150-250shot of NOS...these may vary with different systems...

also, please forgive the size of it... it wasn't very readable at a smaller size. my adobe photoshop wouldn't open cause i'm doing other stuffs using all my free RAM (24 out of 128...tweak XP takes a lot!!)



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  #3  
Old 07-14-2002, 01:29 PM
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With a stock 440.... retard your timing 3 degrees for the 175 shot and go have fun. Even a cast piston 440 can handle a 175 shot.

Later,

Greg
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  #4  
Old 07-14-2002, 02:48 PM
Doug Wilson Doug Wilson is offline
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When you do it, be prepared to put in a new engine.
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  #5  
Old 07-14-2002, 03:53 PM
prostreetchallenger prostreetchallenger is offline
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I would run the smallest jets. 100 horse max on a stock engine, any more and you're asking for alot of trouble. 100 horse is good for half a second and you really won't be hurting anything when you use really small doses. Make sure you have two electric fuel pumps, a nitrous safety shutoff switch if your fuel pressure drops(very important !!!!). There a few more things but I'm in a little bit of a hurry. Nitrous is an awesome thing, I love it, but if you ever talk to someone that has melted motors with this stuff it's because they didn't take the percautions you are supposed to. My brother has run the juice for over 10 years without any failure, but he also has forged pistons and all of the safety stuff you need. He also just runs just 100 horse and no more, talk to anybody that has used it for years and they will tell you the same thing, DON'T OVER DO IT !!!
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Old 07-14-2002, 03:58 PM
Doug Wilson Doug Wilson is offline
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I read something in one of the mags that I really liked about power-adders, it went something like this: "build your engine to support the maximum horsepower it will ever produce". That struck me as exactly the way to do an engine that would only use the 'adder from time-to-time.
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  #7  
Old 07-14-2002, 04:45 PM
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I'll go with Prosteet on this one...

He's right on...

100 HP max on stock engine - if the engine is in good running shape it will do it all day long.

Pro street told you the correct way to set it up.

Most important advice Nitrious is a drug once you start you must resist the tmeptation to continue to add more - that's where you will have problems.
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  #8  
Old 07-14-2002, 04:50 PM
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A 175 shot on a 440 isn't that big of a deal. Retard the timing, run good gas and/or octane booster, decrease the heat range on the plug if it detnoates at all. If you don't let it run lean you'll be fine. Besides, on a stock engine you're likely to pop a head gasket before you seriously damage anything else.

Later,

Greg
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  #9  
Old 07-14-2002, 07:13 PM
GLHS221 GLHS221 is offline
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I dont think 125 shot would be a prob on a 440. Just retard the timing and maybe step down the plugs. Heck I ran a 75 shot on my dodge neon and never ran into any problems! If you take the time and do it right yuo shuoldnt have any problems either. Matt
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  #10  
Old 07-14-2002, 07:41 PM
leon441 leon441 is offline
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Biggrin Spray it

Bigger like anything else is not always better.

Here's an example: I was running NMCA super street in 99' was going to finish eighth in season points as long as I qualified and ran first round ellimination no matter how well the 9th guy done. Well I blowed the good engine on a slick track. My helper had just purchased a 340 .060 over TRW with mullins heads and a lot of compression and a stock style headgasket. He insisted I put it in the car even though I would drown it with a dominator and a NOS double cross plate. I put .033 jets in this thing on all four sides. This engine ran 11.60 on motor and was sick with my moon gears and tight converter. We then pulled 4 degrees timing sense it was only about 100hp and ran it. It ran 10.65 and peppered the plugs with alluminum. I pulled 6 degrees and it ran a 10.59. Third round of qualifying we pulled 8 degrees and it ran a 10.51. Regardless of the fact that these ET's are a joke in NMCA Super Street we were loving it. Steve Johnson the NOS rep at NMCA races came by and wanted to no why I was going so slow. We pulled the hood and he says "What the #E!! is that. He then looked at my jets when he thought I was BSing him on the level of Nitrous he even went so far as to bull his numbered drill bits out to see if I had hogged the jets out. No it just so happened that this little sniff of the gas made the little 348 think it was a lot more than it was. We later put this engine in my helpers car and he has been running it sense.

The idea is don't spray a lot just tune what little you put on it.
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  #11  
Old 07-14-2002, 08:04 PM
prostreetchallenger prostreetchallenger is offline
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Perfectly said Leon441. I hang out with alot of guys that run steriods, this stuff is awesome. My brother runs his with a bottle warmer and it really helps for consistency. We've seen alot of guys run way too much nitrous with the little tee setup off of mechanical fuel pump and they wonder why they didn't make it back down the return lane. Like you said though bigger isn't always better. Tuning this stuff is just like tuning a carb once you get it all set up the motor won't even know the nos is there. The little small block turns into a big block without much effort. Another thing I like about nos is that it builds gobs of tourqe, and you can also turn it off after you leave the track. REMEMBER PAPABATO MORE ISN'T ALWAYS BETTER.
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  #12  
Old 07-14-2002, 10:43 PM
69Dodgedart360 69Dodgedart360 is offline
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with exhaust manifolds through the exhaust my 360 runs 14.30's off the bottle and 12.3's on the bottle with a 125 hp kit with same chassis setup


100 hp is worth more than a half second
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  #13  
Old 07-14-2002, 11:23 PM
Way2QWK Way2QWK is offline
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Its all about running a seperate fuel system for the nitrous. And reading the plugs. Thats how Ive run a 200hp shot on my stock cast piston motor for a year now. I just did compression test (cyl press) and saw 140 avg on all cyl. The most diff between the highest and lowest reading was 12 percent.

This motor is still good
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  #14  
Old 07-14-2002, 11:52 PM
Doug Wilson Doug Wilson is offline
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Somehow, nitrous seems more appropriate for dating than racing.
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  #15  
Old 07-15-2002, 02:32 AM
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1972roadrunner 1972roadrunner is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Way2QWK
Its all about running a seperate fuel system for the nitrous.
i agree with ya there...i've got a 4 gallon fuel cell i'm going to put racing fuel (105+ octane) in just for the NOS... heres a pic of my trunk....


I used my fuel return line for the second fuel line (never used it...it just sat there)....saved money on buying a crapload of rubber fuel line, and saved the time of mounting it to the frame... i just ran a long rubber hose from the pump to a fuel jug filled up with fuel, to another fuel jug that was empty to make sure the line wasn't clogged and to clean it out. don't wanna take any chances...

the blue jug is usually filled with water for my tire squirters, but we drained it cause we had to move it for the fuel cell...i just have to find some time to plumb it back in...

i haven't actually run the NOS yet, still gotta get ahold of Jacobs Electronics again to figure out wether to wire the NMM off the neg side of the coil (black and yellow wire) or off the ECU (same wire)... after that, we still need to work out the valvetrain and make sure it can handle high revs etc... then we'll try it
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  #16  
Old 07-28-2002, 09:15 PM
leon441 leon441 is offline
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Lightbulb Think about some things

As 69DodgeDart360 said he is picking off 2 full seconds with a 125 shot. Sure this is easy. A 3200-3400lb car with driver making 400hp at least that's my guess running 14.3 on motor. The converter is a little tight and the gear is probably at best a 3.91 this is not the best combo for motor. Put the torque of a 125hp NOS shot on and bam the converter reaches out quite a bit further and the car is on the move. Next thing you know you're jumping for joy all excited aint hurt a thing and ran 12.3 at probably 120MPH.

As to the one who is going to run the good gas threw the NOS system and leave the pump gas for the motor. Beware the stuff in pump gas that makes it detonate can get you in trouble when you spray no matter what you have in the fuel for the nitrous tank. A motor pass burns 2gallons of fuel 93 octane. You spray 200 HP and run Sunoco 118 NOS but only use a 1/3 of a gallon of the race gas. Octane when mixing fuel is easy one gallon of each would add the two octanes and divide by 2. But you are using 6 times the pump gas in this example as race fuel so take 6X93=558 then add 118 for the thirs of a gallon of race gas. You have 676/7=95.1 octane. See this race fuel which I'm sure is as good or better than what you were planning on running doesn't make much difference. I'm sure someone is going to question this but even if you tripple the amount of race fuel you still don't have 100 octane. Nitrous causes the fuel to try to burn ultra fast that's why you need the extra fuel the colder plugs and the timing retarded. So before you continue to do this or try it think about the big picture.
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  #17  
Old 07-28-2002, 10:18 PM
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rb77413 rb77413 is offline
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Where did you come up with that equation for the octane result on mixing gases? It seems interesting. I was thinking of doing something like that also. Got any more info on that?


Bob
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  #18  
Old 07-28-2002, 11:20 PM
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rainydazes rainydazes is offline
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higher the octane the slower the fuel burns colder the fuel the more fuel fits in a motor, nos cools the intake and the fuel going in the motor if you really like to know more on NOS get a book called superchargers,turbocharing, nitrous oxide injection by POWER PRO
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  #19  
Old 07-29-2002, 05:41 PM
cdignition cdignition is offline
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FYI, those tuneups they have in the above giant pic are BS ...they will run so rich, its will be lazy...

You dont need a seperate system either, just a good big pump, and some 1/2 inch line....I run 116 all the time(14.5 CR) and pull 7 degrees out with the MSD box...even m,y tuneup is rich, as it needs tuning...I still need a bottle heater tho...


a 175 shot is small for a 440...I know guys that have gone 9.0 on a stock 440 with a 450 shot on it...I think he did it like 15 times, and the moder was wore out from years of bracket racing....just watch the plugz, and youll be fine....
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Old 07-29-2002, 10:46 PM
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So when is a good general rule of thumb on when to need a seperate fuel system. Thinking of an adjust 100-200 shot.
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  #21  
Old 08-08-2002, 02:34 PM
FASTDARTCHESTER FASTDARTCHESTER is offline
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Interesting commets!

I ran a 150 hp shot NOS Sniper system on a 318, 30 over with the 302 heads, cast pistons, and a Hughes engines cam (Lower duration, high lift) for the past 3 seasons in a B-body: NOT ONE PROBLEM!

Follow exactly what the Nitrous mfg recommends (ie, not screwing with tuning the system, use the jets they say to) and you should be safe. It's a great kick in the pants.

I'm telling you, if the engine is sound to begin with, you should be fine.

I really beat the heck out of that 318, routinely hitting 6800 RPM with no problems. Ran the timing right at 0 and all was well.

Good luck!
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  #22  
Old 08-09-2002, 10:36 AM
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NOS

Well you asked for it and you got it.
Opinions that is.
So let me add mine to the pile.
I would not recomend an adjustable system to start you off on
what will quickly become an addiction.
To start with you should have the most importent peice of all.
A low fuel pressure cut off switch.
99% of all NOS problems can be traced back to a lack of fule.
This cut off is cheap insureance.
Second Don`t get to happy with this stuff.
If you run a 150 shot you can depend on a lot of use without any risck.
Don`t get an adjustable set up .
Keep it simple and after you gaine experiance you can allways upgrade.
I have had extremly good service from comp u car`s 150 shot.
comes preset and just about monkey proof.
the kit comes with very good instructions and every thing you need for installation.
Just bolt it on and haul buggy!
The best way I know of to describe it is,that its like turnning on another motor.
And of coarse the fact that it is one of the less expencive set ups doesn`t hurt my feelings.
My point is this.
Don`t go off the deep end first.
You will more than likely drown before you find out how deep you`r in.
Hope it helps.
Happy trails
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  #23  
Old 08-10-2002, 02:36 AM
MJD MJD is offline
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Can you spell "ADDICTED".

NOS is the best high going. I started out with a single plate system (50 - 225 HP) and when the big jets weren't enough I used an orifice drill set to open them up more. (Opened fuel jets first and then the NOS jets to match). I recently purchased a tunnel ram and a 2-Stage Pro Shot system capable of a 1000 HP hit.
My first motor was well built, but only had cast pistons and stock internals with good bolts. It took the first system (a lot) with no damage. The motor is still running fine.
BUT, I made sure I had proper fuel pressure and always erred on the side of rich mix and retarded timing. If you try to run on the edge, you will need a bottom end capable of it.
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