why is it heating up?

[6pak_rodz]

I have a 1970 Dodge Challenger R/T 440-6pak car. My problem is, I think, is that its heating up a lot. I've never experienced a 440 car. This would be my first one. When I turn it on and leave at idle the temp climbs gradually and once it has about a quarter left on the gauge I turn it off thinking that my car might over heat and damage itself. I don't have a fan shroud for my radiator so I'm hoping this is my problem. I've also heard that 440s tend to run pretty hot even with a fan shroud.
My car does have 2 inch headers, a mild cam, and a everything in the motor is pretty much new. I havent been able to cruise in my car yet because of this. I hope its just the fan shroud that Im missing that will solve the problem.
Somebody help!!!

[russell fox]

I had a built 318 in my 70 power wagon that was driving me nuts after being rebuilt thought it was running hot went to 4core radiator played with various thermostats larger hoses etc.etc. And then one day stuck thermometer in radiator and found out new stewart warner guage was 30 degrees off. also I have a 77 class C motor home with 440 and have noticed slight heating difference with out shroud, hope some of this helps good luck

[volare360]

if you are running the stock guage or light
first thing is put an aftermarket one on
just check to see if it is accually getting hot

[6pak_rodz]

What's the deal with the bubbles in the radiator? How do you check that? And if you do get bubbles does it have to be like a lot of bubbles or just any kind of bubble? I hope I dont have to take the heads off.

[6pak_rodz]

Thanks russell and volare for the info. I forgot to mention that I took of the thermostat. I was told to take it off and this would help keep the engine cool. Thanks again fellas.

[72Challenger]

You were given bad advice. Removing the thermostat can actually make a car overheat. But that's not your problem. It's the bubbles in the radiator. THIS IS NOT NORMAL! You probably have an exhaust leak into your water jacket. If you're lucky, it's only a bad head gasket, not a cracked head or block.

[Doug Wilson]

Look for a kinda sickish foam in the rad. Also funny looking oil when you pull the dipstick.

If those things aren't present, do a compression check before you go to the trouble of pulling the heads.

Also, what the other guys said. 1) put in a 'stat - 190 degree preferably 2) aftermarket temp guage 3) fan shroud.

Look for other signs of overheating - burned oil smell, pinging, how it runs in general 4) put on a new radiator cap of the proper pressure rating - I think around 18 pounds.

Good luck.

[6pak_rodz]

So far, no funky foam in the rad nor some milky oil either. So my other options would be to get a fan shroud, 190 therm, and an aftermarket temp gauge. Could I get an aftermarket fan shroud? Cant seem to find one around this area here for my car.
Thanks everybody for the help!

[dave571]

Start with the obvious. You NEED a thermostat.(like the other guys have said.

I bet that will solve all of it right there.

[Marvin S]

Find a fan shroud you might even find one off a truck or something that would work. I would use a 180 degree thermostat.Drain down a little anti freeze and use a good light to look at the core tubes in the rad if they are cruddy have it recored not just rodded and cleaned.Install new 14lb or so cap.You can buy a rad thermometer pretty cheap to see if you even have a problem.Another thing is the fan clutch anygood.

[biggerhammer]

hey, where did he mention bubbles? I didn't see it in the original post. but if there are bubbles in the radiator, you have a good chance of a blown head gasket. they can be blown witthout leeaking water into the oil. after all, the compression is upwards of 125 psi, the water pressure shouldn't be more than 22 psi.
you can use a radiator pressure tester to find out. if the pressure exceeds the rating on the cap, you most likely have a blown head gasket.

[72Challenger]

biggerhammer, it's in the 4th post of the thread. I don't think most other people noticed it either. Obviously a thermostat or a shroud won't solve his problem. He should still have them of course, but it sounds like his problem is way more serious than that.

[6pak_rodz]

Today is Monday, and I took it off just so I could work on the car. I'm going to use everybody's helpful advice. Wish me luck fella's. By the way, thanks to everybody who made the time to help.

[custom880]

First thing I would do is to check for a bad head gasket. If the gasket is good and the heads are not cracked, then you probably have a bad radiator. The bubbles might be the fluid slowly going through the radiator. Even if the tubes l;ook good from the top they might be collapsed half way down. If you suspect a bad radiator take it off and run clean water through it. The water should run through it pretty freely. If the water takes forever to get to the bottom outlet then it needs to be replaced, or recored.

[cuda66273]

Tiny Bubbles....in the radiator.....
Makes my feel heart feel sad......

Da dada da...Hummm Humm hum....

This is not a good song to be singing....

Get a pressure tester and pump it up wait 10 minutes, pull the coil wire and crank it over a couple of times.

Now pull #3 and 5 plug, give 'em a lick...does it taste sweet?

Now pull 4 and 6 same test?

If the answer is no to the above...try the rest of them....if you get any sweet taste you've got anti freeze and a bad head gasket.

This is not to be confused with a plain old "Sweet Mopar"

You'll probably find one of those plugs will have red rust signs on it....this will eliminate the need for the taste test...

Mopars take a coarser stone to finish the head, many so-so shops are too lazy to change or don't have the correct stone to finish the head surface....so you get a Chebby finish....sorry won't hold the gasket on a Mopar....pretty common deal......

Sorry I can't remember what the grit is for the Mopars.

Other common errors...incorrect tork on the head bolts, incorrect lube on the head bolt threads, poor tork wrench, threads not cleaned, no hardened washers, re-tork not done or not done correctly, using the head gaskets as supplied in the Felpro overhaul kit instead of their HP head gaskets, poor quality head bolts and last but not least incorrect sequence.

See my post in the "Edelbrock heads and ARP bolts" post...it's right up top...read the section on tork angle.

If you want more I'll pull out my Guitar and sing you all a couple of verses of..."You Can't Boss My Boss Barracuda Around"......

[biggerhammer]

as far as mopar is concerned, they are the most lenient as far as surface distortion and finish, they call for a rougher finish than chevies, and they allow more warpage, usually .000125 per inch of head, that means length, according to my books, pretty lenient to me, means you can have as much as 0.011-.012 for sixes and up to .005-.006 for v-8's, but I always surface them anyway, anything over .002

[6pak_rodz]

Well, guys, for the finale. I've got my running fine now! Yes, its time to go kick some import tail!!
The problem was my MSD 6A ignition box. Took it off, installed a fan shroud (borrowed it from a Charger guy), installed a 190 therm from AutoZone, and a aftermarket gauge. Voila! No more heating and it maintained around 190 and 195 degrees temp. Yes!!
Thanks again everybody for the advice. I sure appreciated it.
..............off to go kick some butt (especially those darn imports)!!

[volare360]

good to hear it

that was gonna be an advise you would hear
incorrect timing

was it the MSD
or did you leave it on till after the guage

[cuda66273]

I love a story with a happy ending...