main studs, and studs on the heads...got some ??'s...

[1972roadrunner]

hey all, i've heard a lot about ARP? studs...and i've heard a lot about using studs on heads... how are studs stronger than bolts? while we've got the motor on the stand, i just might be able to convince dad to order some... but only if i believe they will be better than bolts for my app...

i'm lookin at hopefully around 6,500-7,000 rpm, when we're done with the motor again.... i am running 180 shot of NOS, but i haven't used it yet. we weren't going to with it ticking like it was... good thing too cause the bearings would have gone out a lot sooner...(anti freeze got into the oil, locked the motor up...)

thanx for all the help!!

[1972roadrunner]

oh, i forgot to mention that i've got pistons that are rated at 12.5:1 cr, and we ordered total seal piston rings for it... the ST1G2 out of P.A.W... i've also got a comp. cam with the following specs:

Comp Cams Magnum Cam
Grind:            282S
RPM Range:        3,000 - 6,000
Part No.:         20-247-4
Adv. Dur.:        282-282
Dur. @ .050:      236-236
Valve Lift:       .495-.495
Lobe Sep. Angle:  110
Cam Price:        124.95
Lifters:          821-16 (we ordered)

sound any good??

[rb77413]

Ok for the most part. One reason why they are better is that they dont stress the threads in the block as much as bolts. When you put bolts in the torque is applied as a twisting and pulling motion against the threads in the block. On studs you only torque them to ABOUT 10 lb/ft (Anyone else know for sure?) Then they are set. All the torque from bolting the head down is recieved/handled by the threads on the stud. Saying that, I believe they will have a better holding capability. Better holding less likely to blow a gasket during juiced runs. Next motor I build nitrous or not I am going studs, I like overkill because walking sucks Not to mention the cool factor of having studs.

Not sure about main studs, but it does at least follow the same theory as heads studs. Better clamping to keeps the bearing clearances consistent at high rpm thus less like not to lose the oil layer hence spin a bearing.

Oh by the cams specs no reason to spin to 7K if the cam is not any good after 6K.

Bob

[1972roadrunner]

sounds good...thats pretty much what i wanted to hear... i'll see what i can do... i'm gonna look in my paw book first, see if i can get some prices, THEN i'll run it by dad if the prices are OK...

thanx!

[1972roadrunner]

hmm... heres what i found in P.A.W...

Milodon Fasteners:
Head Studs = $89.95 (standard and W2 heads)
Main Studs = $47.95

-OR-

ARP Fasteners
Head Stud Kit = $83.95
Main Bolt Kits = $77.95 (w/ windage tray)

which would be the better deal?? does the "you get what you pay for" saying come in play here, or is one brand better than the other?? i'm thinkin i might HAVE to go with the ARP so i can still use my windage tray...but i don't know.

[rb77413]

Me either. I have always heard good about ARP but not anything good or bad about Milodon.

[5th_Ave_Sleeper]

ARP Studs are top notch!
5th

[Doug Wilson]

If you're going to run drugs, then you should think about o-ringing the block while it's apart.

[cuda66273]

You kids and your drugs...build a real Mopar, forget the drugs. My buddy did the drug thing to his Firechicken...now he spends $80.00 a week on giggle juice.....24 weeks a year for 2 years....he could have had a V-8 ..Hemi V-8

72 RR I think you post and don't read enough...did you even consider a Racer Brown Cam???

Slap Slap...listen to me boy....you think I do all this yappin' just to hear my head roar! Now does you wanna be a chicken or a chicken hawk?

Sorry as much as I like Milodon I'll stick with ARP although there probably ARP reboxed anyhow.

[Tarrbabe]

That much compression is nice if you are up to taking care of it. It requires more care than street engines. If you are running a BB you can get along with 12 1/2 if everything is straight and square. If you have a small block, you will have trouble with that much compression, let alone with juice. If I were going to run juice, I'd O-ring the block regardless of which engine I ran. Blown head gaskets have a way of loosing power and getting anti-freeze into the oil.
Just thinking out loud.

[1972roadrunner]

thats not my TRUE cr...thats what the pistons are rated at... i figure with J heads, the cr is probably around 10.5-11:1, if not just a LITTLE higher...not much...

cuda66273:
first off, i think you watch too many cartoons hehehe, and my dad is the one that ordered the cam, he trusts comp cams. he's used them in his late models before, and hasn't had any problems...(course, they were chevy 400 stroker motors...not MoPaR's...)

ok, what the heck IS o-ringing the block?? its already out of the machine shop, they actually had cam bearings in stock... spent $158.28 on it though... they boiled it, honed it, and put new cam bearings in...

BTW: i wanna be a chicken hawk!

[cuda66273]

I've been on the Comp Racer sponsorship program for almost 16 years myself and have used a ton of their product...in Chebby's....great stuff and good people, but for a Mopar I prefer the spec's on the Racer Brown stuff.

Just my formulated, researched and track tested opinion.

For what it's worth.....

Wel ssson oofffofofofof a a a Bit bitt biit...gun.... I'll bet you thought i was going to say Son of Bitch didn't you.....LOL

Beep Beep...I'm gone

[1972roadrunner]

LMAO!! well, we'll try this comp cam and see how it runs... dad thinks it was overcammed with the other one... here are the specs for it, you tell me what you think.. over cammed or not? (for stock J heads with dual springs...)

SSI Performance Camshaft
Part No:           10358 (P.A.W)
Perf. Range:       4  
Dur. @ .050:       243-243
Adv. Dur:          298-298
Gross Lift:        .508-.508
Deg. Lobe Cen:     108
Valve Lash - Hot:  HYD
Cam Price:         $49.95

i don't know if we're going to store this cam, or sell it... if we sold it, it'd probably be $20...don't know though... i've still got the anti-pump lifters that were in the car too... there is a LITTLE wear on the cam, lobes look good, and the bearing surfaces are smooth...

[rb77413]

OK where do you get the Racer Brown cams? Do they have a web site?

BTW What was the rpm range on this cam?

[bbeckwith]

72RR.

since on-one described what O-ringing is, or it's purpose, I found a link for you that tells you why and how. It's a pdf file, no biggie, I am assuming you have or can view acrobat files. The bit about o-ringing the block is on the lower right corner of page 1.
If you search the internet, I'm sure you'll find something with illustrations tho, I believe a picture really is worth a thousand words. This is just something I found for you real quick. No real research involved. Enjoy

http://www.hm-performance.com/machine%20shop%20info.pdf

Bruce

[dirty dan]

(O ring the block)
This is done by machening a groove around the top of each cyl;bore into the deck surface . This groove is filled with stainless steel wire. The groove is only cut deep enough to allow 1/2 of the wire diamiter to go into it. The other half protrudes above zero deck. After haveing this done it will be nessasary to use copper head gaskets. Wich are no more then a flat peice of copper with holes punched in all the right spots. These gaskets are available from mr gasket for about $70. But dont get scared they are reuseable. (They require a small amount of silacon around the water holes) No one told me that the first time I used them.
Should you choose to use this set up,you can run all the nitrous or nitromethaine your engines other componants can stand.
Those gaskets will take any thing you through at them. Provided the block has been o ringed.

The way I see it you better keep that old cam on stand by.
Your new one Lookes a little short on duration for the rpms you`r looking for. As you may have noticed I am more of a big block fan then a small block. So I`ll let you decide on the cam .
But do keep the old one! Who knows one day you might want to biuld another small block.

arp studs are a good peice of insurance.
each time a head is removed and retorqed useing bolts the deck becomes a little more distorted around the bolt holes.
That is the why behind the use of studs.
Hope this helps
My 2 typing fingers are getting sore.

[1972roadrunner]

dirty dan: 2 typing fingers?? boy, musta took you a LONG time to type that big ol' post . we probably will tag the cam and store it, but if somebody wants it dad'll probably sell it...not sure though... we probably aren't going to O-Ring the block, or get the studs because:

1. we aren't PLANNING on taking this thing apart any more...and $$$ comes into effect...
2. $$$ is actually a big role in this, and we've already got the block back from the machine shop...don't think dad wants to take it back...they charge OUTRAGEOUS labor prices...
3. $$$$ is actually a BIG reason of why we didn't get a new crank, rods, etc....

thanx for all the help!!

[Tarrbabe]

If you can't afford to do it right the first time, can you afford to re-do it again, and again, and again?

[1972roadrunner]

hmm...very interesting tarrbabe...very interesting maybe i'll run the o-ringing thing by dad, and see what he thinks... how much do you think it'll cost to get the block o-ringed? ball-park estimate...

[dirty dan]

I don`t recall exactly. Ball park figure $150-$200.I can understand the Green back can be a stumbling block for every one at some point or another.
But as I said should you choose to o ring you will have no more head gasket leaks. Regaudless of fuel you choose to run.
Happy trails

[cuda66273]

RB77413...sorry I can't find Racer's phone number...was on my sesk until my wife cleaned it off while I was at the Nationals this weekend...jeeze I hate it when she does that.

Look in the back of National Dragster or Mopar Muscle he runs ads in those publications.....and "He" is Jim Doyle....be sure and tell him Don From Oreee-Gon sent you, you'll get it quicker and he has been known to whack a little off the price for my good buddy's

[rb77413]

Originally posted by cuda66273
RB77413...sorry I can't find Racer's phone number...was on my sesk until my wife cleaned it off while I was at the Nationals this weekend...jeeze I hate it when she does that.

Look in the back of National Dragster or Mopar Muscle he runs ads in those publications.....and "He" is Jim Doyle....be sure and tell him Don From Oreee-Gon sent you, you'll get it quicker and he has been known to whack a little off the price for my good buddy's

Thanks for the lead!