early hemis

[dirty dan]

What was the one before the 392?
It was either a 350or a 354 I think It was a 350 something I don`t recall.
I know theire heads were quit different from the 392 and the 426.
I have been ofered won for a price.
What is a good price to pay? hi/low
Iam thinking of getting it for a future prodject.
From a stand point of peformance in a non blown aplication what are the possabilaties of this engine?
And what are the down falls of this engine?
please post any thing you can recall about this engine.
ALL posts will be thankfully recived.
Dirty Dan

[rumblefish360]

P.A.W. and Hotheads have parts for these early HEMI's. Problem is, the expensive and not all of them are performance parts. The 392 has a good'ol rep that keeps some parts easy to get. The older HEMI's are more diffacult.
The largest HEMI I can think off before the 392 was the 354.
There are some parts for this engine. Custom parts will be needed. P.A.W. has a catolog that lists intakes from Offenhauser.

[sanborn]

Don't claim to be an expert on early Hemis, but this is what I remember.

Dodge, Desoto and Chrysler all produced Hemis in the 50s-none of the parts are interchangeable between them except ignitions. So, make sure you are looking at a Chrysler, not a Dodge or Desoto.

In 1951, Chrysler produced the 331" Hemi engine, it was used through 1953. In 1954, they used a slightly larger bore to produce the 354" engine. It was used through 1956, was available with a two barrel, four barrel and two four barrels.

In 1957, they enlarged the engine to 392" with a longer stroke. In order to get the longer stroke the deck height was increased in order to keep the rod length the same. But, Chrysler lowered the intake runners in the head(because of hood height and interchangeability). So, most Hemi purists claim the early 354" heads flow better than the later 392s. A lot of race engines in the 60s had 354 heads on 392 blocks. Anyway, to continue the story, chrysler used the 392" through 1958(and 1959 in the 300 I think).

They were very powerful engines. The heads were true Hemispherical in design (unlike the later 426") and worked very well when properly ported, large valves, etc. Injected 360" early Hemis would put out almost 700HP in full race trim. But, there were some problems; they were very heavy(700 lbs.), had only ten head bolts, and had a relatively small bore(4.060 was about max), so to get any large cubic inches a long stroker crank was necessary. The bottom end was beefy for injected racing but the blowers got the torque past the capability of the main webs. That really spelled the demise of the early hemis, the AA/F cars. The 426" bottom end was much stronger.

The early Hemi is a much more attractive engine than the later 426", ignition is in the back and the timing cover, water pumps, etc. look neater. Several Hemi purists across the country have suceeded in making them one of the prettiest street engines around.

Don't know what the "fair pricing" is for them. I helped a friend get a 354" last year, running, complete for $100. I've seen them for $1000 and I seen them for "come and get it". Parts are available for them, expect to pay more but it isn't outrageous. It depends on what you want-Nothing is outrageous if you want it bad enough.

[moparman318]

Ok thats cool but what kind of tranny could you hook up to these beasts.

[Robertson_Tech]

There were 2 different blocks used for the 331 the early block that was replaced in mid year 1954. This can cause a lot of problems the early block had a different bellhousing from the more normal looking late 1954 331. The bellhousing was cast into the block.
I was 16 years old when I baught a replacement 331 for my 54 new yorker I got the wrong one and sold the car. Be carefull
The late 54 331 can be adapted to other trans.

http://www.bnbhotline.com/members/hidvally.htm had a complete 331 for sale when I was last there.

Wild 1

[moparman318]

well Is it possible to say mount a torque flight on a 392. I know that PAW had a long block 392 that I read about in an older hot rod. can't remember the price but I think it was about 5 grand. I was just wondering cause maybe in the future I would use one and would like to know what tranns I could use. Thanks for the help on the 331 though. Why was everything so complicted in the 50's. not like now. My 318 can match trannys from the 60's all the way up to the newer overdrive units. I was just curious.

[sanborn]

The factories didn't learn about "interchangeability" until the 70s and 80s. Prior to that each brand of automobile was truely different-not only bodies but engine and drivetrain as well.

The Chevrolet, Buick, Pontiac, Oldmobile and Cadillac engines were all different-no parts interchanged.
The Ford engine was different from Lincoln but was the same as Mercury.
Chrysler, Dodge and Desoto had had Hemis, but they were not interchangeable, Plymouth had a Polysperical headed engine.

Funny, the cheapest engine of each manufacturer became the "corporate" engine-Chevrolet, Ford and Plymouth. Wonder why?

[dirty dan]

the 354 is the hemi Iam looking at .
the crank is longer then a big block,or that is to say it sticks out
the back ferther any way.
About 100 years ago I seem to remember a spacer that fills in the blank and addapets to a 727 bolt pattern.
But I don`t remember where it come from or how much$

[Crank]

i was just reading a old mag and this guy board out the cylinders on the 354 .120 thousands witch cought my eye ,i bet that took a lot of weight out and really pumped up the displacement..

[dirty dan]

hey crank.
that sounds interesting.
would it be possable to copy that and post it.
So every one else could get a peak at it.
Inquireing minds allways want to know more and more and more and even still yet MORE.
thanks if you can.
If you can`t how about mailing it to me.
wreccker56@etinternet.net
Happy trails.

[PRO]

The 1st early hemi was the 270 red ram which found its way into many a street rod in the 50s,the 392 w/354 heads was the hot ticket as sanborn said(hey how it going sanborn?)parts are expensive!!!! main brgs are $100 a set etc,you can use a stock sb(la) timing chain in it no prob and by modifying the length of an la dist you can have electronic ign but dont think itll bolt in an A body its too wide! even wider than a 426!!! So unless it going in a street rod(t bucket etc) or a truck Id build a BB.Someone used to make a trans adapter for the 727 but I cant remember who..................PRO........

[Meep972]

I saw a '54 331 Hemi block on Ebay a month or two ago for $25! It had no cracks or problems of that nature. The reason I didn't buy it was because with shipping it would have set me back $220

[dirty dan]

thanks to all.
Your help is appreciated very much.
Dirty Dan

[Crank]

sorry it took me so long to get back dirty dan the article was in rod and custom it was the center fold car a 32 5window coup .it didn't give much details just twin eddlebrock carbs,offy intake and mopar electronic ignition,bored ,120 withe stock internals.mopar muscle did a feacher on early hemi's last year you mite won't to check with them on a back issue.

[dirty dan]

Thanks crank Ill look into it.

[Larry S.]

Dan, you can get adapters to run just about any tranny you want from Bob Walker at www.powerplayhemi.com . You can bore the 354 out .060 over and run stock bore 392 pistons, which are available cast from PAW for about $200. These work fine for a street motor if you don't put Nitrous on it. I just finished building a 354 for my son with this setup. You can also get adapters to run a bigblock Chevy waterpump (easier to find than an early hemi pump), spin on oil filter (Fram PH8A), and LA engine distributors (electronic ignition reliability).

[dirty dan]

hey thanks larry .
That really hit the spot.
Have you any more parts combos that might be helpfull?
Thanks again.

[Larry S.]

Dan, I'd be happy to answer any questions you have if you'll email me at heminut392@yahoo.com but I highly recommend you get a copy of Tex Smith's Chrysler Hemi Engine Manual. That book is worth it's weight in gold to anyone who is building an early hemi. It is available at www.powerplayhemi.com and is right on the home page. Jeez, I'm starting to sound like a commercial for PowerPlay! I honestly don't work for Bob Walker, but as I said in my earlier post, if he doesn't have it, it's probably not available for the early hemis!