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  #1  
Old 08-05-2002, 06:40 PM
TwiZtiD440 TwiZtiD440 is offline
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Default Edelbrock 440 Heads casting # 6091???

Just bought my Heads, used ofcourse, according to the part# listing, the 6091 was discontinued? Why so? Any info on this?
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  #2  
Old 08-05-2002, 08:47 PM
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ehostler ehostler is offline
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From the Edelbrock website:

The 60919 is the Bare 84cc head
The 60929 is the complete 84cc head

The 60149 is the Bare 88cc head
The 60189 is the complete 88cc head

If the 60919 was discontinued, it would only have been because the sales for bare heads aren't as great as they are for the complete heads.
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Old 08-06-2002, 02:33 PM
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No, the 6091 was not cancelled.

Everything was switched from selling some heads as pairs and some as singles to just selling everything to singles.

The 6091 was probably the number for the pair of heads....where now the 60919 part number is used to sell one head.

Besides, the casting number of 6091 will be the same whether it was sold as a bare head or a assembled complete head.

Roger
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  #4  
Old 08-06-2002, 05:25 PM
TwiZtiD440 TwiZtiD440 is offline
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Thanks!
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Old 08-06-2002, 05:38 PM
Doug Wilson Doug Wilson is offline
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I'm thinking about using the Ed. heads on my 452 cu in 440 towing motor. It will never see more than about 5000 RPM. What is your opinion about this application as compared to stock 452 heads? I'm wondering if the gains will show at the lower RPM. Can you see them improving fuel milage at cruise RPM - 2350 RPM??
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  #6  
Old 08-09-2002, 12:28 PM
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Doug....

Sorry it took me so long to reply....dang SEMA rush is starting already!

The 6091's should work great for your application! The heads should only show an improvement over what you are running right now! As far as fuel milage is conserned, I don't think you will see much difference there just with heads. What would probably work really well, would be to add our Pro-Flo fuel injection once the units are complete. With the head and MPFI combination, that will give you a lot more torque for towing as well as fuel milage. With the Pro-Flo system, you would be able to tune a fuel map just for normal driving, and also tune a different map just for towing! The 440 MPFI kit will be at SEMA this year and looking for somewhere towards the end of the year to put kits on the shelf....I hope!

As far as power/torque numbers, there are some from a Mopar Muscle dyno test, but was done against 906 heads with a Edelbrock dual plane manifold.


906's

RPM..........Horsepower............Torque
3000...............277.6.................485.9
3500...............341.2.................512.0
4000...............403.4.................529.7
4500...............442.1.................528.2
5000...............471.1.................526.3
5400...............482.9.................519.6
5500...............483.0.................516.0
5800...............477.4.................494.9
5900...............473.9.................461.2
6000...............471.1.................412.4

6091's

RPM..........Horsepower............Torque
3000...............288.3.................504.8
3500...............358.3.................537.6
4000...............424.2.................557.0
4500...............471.9.................556.1
5000...............507.7.................556.3
5400...............531.3.................554.0
5500...............534.5.................550.8
5800...............538.7.................553.3
5900...............536.1.................510.4
6000...............536.1.................469.2

Those numbers were in an old Oct 2001 issue. I would imagine the results only to be better on a 452.

Roger
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Old 08-09-2002, 01:10 PM
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Roger,

What can you tell us about the Pro-Flo MPFI for the RB MOPARs? I've been thinking about getting a Holley setup and having an intake modified for the fuel injectors. If EB is actually going to have a bolt on kit, it may be a direction that I'm willing to look in.

How does the ECU compare to the Commander 950. How about the user interface, is it as simple as the Commander? Will it come with the PC software or will that have to be purchased seperate?

I also read something about the EB coming with a distributor so that the ECU will be able control the advance. Any truth to this?

Any info that you have would be appreciated.

Thanks
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Old 08-09-2002, 02:41 PM
Doug Wilson Doug Wilson is offline
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Thanks, Roger. It will be the heads first. EFI scares me. I'm kind of stupid. But, I am comfortable with old technology. My computer for instance, is powered by coal.
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  #9  
Old 08-09-2002, 02:58 PM
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ehostler.....

The Pro Flo MPFI will be the same as our other Pro Flo systems. It comes pre-assembled with everything to switch to EFI. You DO NOT need a laptop computer to program the EFI. It uses a hand-held control modual to program the EFI. It is not as flexible as the Holley system, but from what I hear people have less problems tuning the Pro Flo systems than the Holley systems. The main drawback to the Pro Flo is that we have to send you a calibration chip depending on your engine combination that is fairly close that you can then fine tune with the control modual.

Yes, the system for the 440 will come with a distributor that will have full timing control from the hand-held modual. Because a distributor will be included, I can guess the price of the system will be close to what our Ford systems cost since they come with a distributor as well.

The main thing to keep in mind is that it will take time to tune the system. It would be good to have a friend/family member drive the car while you tune the computer. That will be the most time consuming aspect, which has to be done with all EFI conversons.

Doug....

I am sure if you can tune a carb, and work the internet, using EFI should be a snap! Just imagine all that gas money you can save!

Roger
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Old 08-09-2002, 03:30 PM
Doug Wilson Doug Wilson is offline
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Thanks for your confidence, Roger.

Maybe if I buy the EFI, you'd like to come up to my most beautiful part of Oregon and help me install it??

Bring your family, we've got lots of room!

Horses, fishing, hunting, drag racing, ocean, mountains. fast curvy roads, fire trails, lakes. All within 1/2 hour of my place.

I heard that, within the next decade, we will be getting electricity.
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Old 08-09-2002, 05:12 PM
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Help install it??? I'm an engineer, not a wrench!

Just kidding....actually, I am an engineer who is not afraid to wrench, in fact I love to! Can't wait to have a place with a garage so I can have project vehicles! Dang southern CA being so expensive to live! DANG!

Yeah, I know that area of OR....my unlce has a lot of property close to there, in Florence, Eugene, and Gold Beach. Although, I am sure this young buck could stir up a quiet neighborhood! hehehe Yeah, I know how people drive up there....you need 500 hp to get out of there way....especially if you have CA plates!

Actually....with the EFI, it isn't any harder to install it than a manifold. The little extra's that make it harder is changing the fuel system. Besides that its a piece of cake since it comes with the wire harness, just drill a hole in the firewall and mount the plate on the harness to the wall.

Roger
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Old 08-09-2002, 05:27 PM
Doug Wilson Doug Wilson is offline
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Until you said that, I trusted you Roger! Another bolt-on?? Tools required: Cutting torch, MIG welder, 10 pound hand sledge and a Heavy Duty Sawzall, and 15 gallons of Hydrafluoric acid.??
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  #13  
Old 08-09-2002, 06:51 PM
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Lets not forget the Jaws of Life!
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Old 08-09-2002, 06:58 PM
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I don't know that I like the idea of a chip. That means that in order to do a simple cam change, you would need a new chip. It also means that the average person that just wants to swap over to MPFI, needs to know what the actual compression ratio is and the specs of the current cam. Many people have just bought nice machines and don't know those answers, so the chip would be based on best guess.

I would prefer to have something with the flexability of the Commander 950. I also like that with the commander you can store as many fuel maps that you want, on your laptop and simply download them into the ECU.
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Old 08-09-2002, 07:23 PM
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As far as the Pro Flo vs Commander 950 go, there is a system for everyone. I haven't been on a Chevy forum.....and there are all kinds of people having problems with the Holley system, and I don't see anyone asking questions on Edelbrock stuff. I think the sales of EFI systems are pretty steady between the two companies.

As far as selecting a chip....we don't need to know all the parts you use. There are some basic parameters that are used, and only a few chips to choose from.

Although, we realize that the Pro Flo systems are not as tunable as other systems, but there will be some more EFI products coming soon that will depart from the Pro Flo line. It isn't in my place to discuss anything further than that, but there might be some new EFI stuff in store for the SEMA show, or PRI.

Roger
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Old 08-09-2002, 09:10 PM
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I'm sure that the chips do a real good job of coarse dialing the system with fine tuning being left to the module interface. I guess that I'm getting to be too much of a computer nerd and like to have my hands deep inside of the system. On the other side, having all of the flexability/programming of the Commander leaves alot of potential problems, unless you really know what you are doing and have plenty of time to get the fuel maps programmed correctly. From what I've seen, you pretty much well need a rear well dyno, to run the car on, in order to get all of the maps set correctly.

I still think that it would be nice to have a computer interface, so that you can record what the ECU saw and did, while racing, so that you could better fine tune the system.

At this point, it'll probably be at least another year before I can even think of buying an EFI system, so I'll wait to see what playtoys are available then.
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  #17  
Old 08-12-2002, 12:42 PM
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Yeah, its nice having full control over the tuning of an EFI system....but you hit the nail on the head, it takes a lot of tuning to get everything right, and the use of a dyno help A LOT!! Sometimes the guys here can spend 2-3 days tuning a car up.

There was talk of adding a computer interface to our Pro Flo system, but I think it never happened. I think what you'll see in the future from us will be a lot of EFI parts, where you add your own computer, sensors, and wireharness.

Roger
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