What were YOUR performance gains?

[440cj]

FINALLY going from 3.23's to 3.90's (suregrip) in the 3700# '74 Dart Sport (damn heavy bumpers ) and with 267 rr hp now according to G Tech am wondering how much ET diff. and "seat of the pants" difference to anticipate? Running 245/14's out back and 727 but want to hear from some small block warriors as to what to expect before attempting to slay some Mudstains, etc.... 440cj

[mtrv8n]

expect heavy wheelspin on those 245's. It's ok, you'll learn how to control it...

[440cj]

HEAVY wheelspin? Hmmmm...anyone else have the same problem??? 440cj

[1972roadrunner]

i've got 4.10's on my RR with a 340/727...course, i also have M+S P295/50 R15's on the back...i get great hook up too...even with my airshocks and long shackles.... i actually HAVE to use water to get my tires to spin!! heres how i manage that...





the blue jug is where i store my 50-50 mix of water/windshield washer fluid mix....the black jug is where my racing fuel goes for the blue bottle.... i've also got a cheap electric fuel pump that makes the water flow, and spray out of thenozzles...

[1972roadrunner]

woops...forgot this picture...



the mud flaps are there to minimize damage to my rear quarter panels when i do have to take a dirt road, or when the city puts gravel and crap on the roads...it was dads idea, it'll help save the paint...they aren't quite wide enuff though, but they work.

[440cj]

Phenominal! Never saw THAT before! Sure woulda been handy graduation day in High School when we had 13 (yes, I said 13) "bleachboxes" in numerous areas of the school grounds driveways, etc....
Anyone else have some advice or experiences? Really curious here, also wonder what change the G Tech will register. 440cj

[6pakman]

first you need to get your spelling right, its not mudstain, its mustang. now that wev'e got that right, going to a larger gear will get you off the line quick,but you will really be high reving at around 45-50 mph. kiss your gas milage goodbuy to. but if your just racing, it doesn't matter. also the bigger the tire, the less wheel spin. also, love that instant water set up. quite ingenious.

[1972roadrunner]

Originally posted by 6pakman
first you need to get your spelling right......kiss your gas milage goodbuy to.

hehe, who needs to brush up on spelling?? just pokin fun......also, it's NOT a mustang, a mustang is a horse...the correct term here is a Rustang! i know, i took that from somebody else...but it does make the faces of rustang drivers really red, then when i whoop them in the burnout AND the race, the are even brighter!

Originally posted by 6pakman

love that instant water set up. quite ingenious.

thanks, that was dads idea...he did that on his chevy pickup with drag slicks...only he used bleach..... he also has a setup in his late-model where there is a copper tube with holes in front of his radiator that he sprays water through, helps cool it in yellow flags etc...

we spent maybe $20-$25 on the whole setup, the pump is a cheap one from Advance Auto Parts, and the tubing and brackets are from Westlake Ace Hardware, and the jug and nozzels are from Orchleans (spelling??), and we had the screws and other barbed fitting for the hose in the garage...

[dirty dan]

If you go to the track they will supply the water.
Sorry no washer fluid.
When you get a chance send me your email adress .
I have some pic`s to share.
that are to big to post.
wrecker56@etinternet.net

[coolcarz]

Had 3.55's went to 3.91's you'l notice a difference for sure, can even knock .5 off your et +or- lots of factors. your rmp's will be different .. about 53 mph@3000 if you wana go really fast , like 62 mph@3500rpm...... thats the bummer with 3.91 245/60/14'z < what i had, doing little taller tire on rearend this time..
who owns a muscle car and worries about gas? ya cant!! it aint healthy!!!!!


coolcarz
71 340 duster

[RALPH]

i had 3.23's in my cuda 340, changed to 4.10's lost at least .5 sec off my E.T. the car rips but highway cruising sucks now 60 mph =3200 rpm. but i don't drive it often so i can live with it. good luck!

[lenweiler]

Don't quite know what's going on here. Everywhere I look guys are filling their gear houses full of steroids. What's up with that? I run a pretty much stock 6-pack Bee with a 3.55 gear, big tires and it runs 12.85 at 109. I'm building a 340 dart with 3.55 gears and a 2 inch smaller tire and fully expect it to run high 11's. What's up? According to Hughes and Mr. Gasget drag program I'm on trac. Do you really have to spin these little beasties that high? If so, I maybe going stroker 408 sooner than expected!

[Firelord]

Get Mr. Gasket's drag 2000. I'm building an engine with lots of torque and I get the best ET on the simulation with 3.23 gear, which will be excellent for a dual purpose vehicle. if I put much more torque in it (405 ft.lb @ 4500 rpm) i will probably have to loose my street tires in favor of slicks. If you run a huge cam that gives lots of high RPM HP at a loss of low RPM torque then you need gearing like 3.91, 4.11, or more to launch quickly; if you have plenty of torque you can probably get away with less gearing. Send the whole combo and I'll run it in the sym. that is cam, heads, valve sizes, intake type, compression ratio, torque converter stall speed, shift points, etc.

[lenweiler]

Thanks for the offer. Can't remember the cam specs. exactly, but I will get back to you with them.

[lenweiler]

OK. Here we go.
Engine: 340 Dodge bore: 4.06 stroke: 3.31 rod: stock
heads: '308 casting Maximum bowl port, runners widened and raised (a good stage 1 port job) runners cc'd at 175, combustion chamber at 64cc's. Final compression ratio at 10.1:1.
valves: flatties and light 2.02 int. , 1.60 ex.
intake: dual plane, large plenum 180 degree.
carb: 750 dual feed, dbbl. pump
cam: HE4450as solid stick from Hughes, with max. ramp speed. Should be entered as a roller.
lift: .568 Int. .590 Exh.
duration @ .050 tappet rise: .244 int. 250exh.
timing: Intake opens 16 deg. btc,, closes 46 deg. abc
exhaust opens 54 deg. bbc, closes 16 deg. atc.
exhaust: 1 3/4in. primaries, 3in. secondaries with 3in. pipes and mufflers.

Car: 69 Dart 4-speed, lightened front
s/s springs, 3.55 gear, 26inch drag radials
weight with driver: 3300lbs. est.
weight distribution: 52% front, 48% rear. est.
trans: standard Chryco 4 speed (non hemi) So there it is. Could easily be a daily driver.

[Firelord]

lenweiler, hope you don't mind a bit of waiting 'cause I won't get a chance to do it until next week. I'll be away on travel and am writing from a friend's pc cause their home is closer to the airport. Anyway, unless one of the local gur's can cover me I'll get back to you next week. I'll need to know what tires you want to run. My guess from previous simulation is that a 3.55 or 3.91 will be best for you since that cam has a lot of duration and it will probably peak horsepower around 5500 rpm. Anyway, get back to you next week.

[Mr.Mopar]

I would go with the 3.9 gears, they are still o.k. on the highway and run about 3200 rpm at 60 mph. I got about .5 sec gain when I went from 3.55 to 3.91. Sure helped. Unless you are strictly racing I wouldn't want to go with the 4:10, you'll get tired of them on the street and highway. Thats my opinion.

[1972roadrunner]

Originally posted by Mr.Mopar
Unless you are strictly racing I wouldn't want to go with the 4:10, you'll get tired of them on the street and highway. Thats my opinion.

ehh...4.10's on the street aren't THAT bad......i love them! sure, highway turns high revs, but passing is a breeze ...the motor is already closer to the peak HP/Torque so it doesn't take long to pass...course, i hope your not worried about gas mileage...4.10's, even on the street, are killer on mileage. my brothers 440 does BETTER than my 340 on gas mileage!! even with dad driving the 440!! his foot is heavier than mine! course, my brother also has 3.56's in his rear...i'm not sure of the size, but dad says it's a "hog nose"?? the bolts are on the front, so there is no cover.
this is my opinion on the 4.10's though.

have fun!

[440cj]

I wonder if I will be able to go back to just 93 octane instead of 2 gals. 114 "Trick" racing fuel with 12 gals. of 93 to eliminate pinging at 8* advance. See, I have a LONG advance curve (8* initial, all in by 4500 rpm) due to high cylinder pressure, low cam bleed-off, heavy car (3900# with me in it) and those 3.23's. Also getting the Dodge Tri-power D.U.I. dist. this week curved to my engine specs ( I think they said to go 12-14* initial and it would be all in by 2400 rpm...not sure) AND Demonsizzler said he would be shipping my street/strip rebuilt TQ this week (bigger jets, etc.). Hopefully with all this combined there won't be as much of a load on the 360 and I can get back to straight 93 octane with my 2000 stall conv. Sound right? 440cj

[lenweiler]

Don't mind waiting. Don't forget fella's, this is a street car, that could be driven 60-80 miles in a shot. That's why I tend to lean towards combo's that have a lot of peak horsepower, with the torque limits set higher. That way, theoreticaly, the street rubber will handle the launches easier.

[Firelord]

As promised:

If I ran the simulation right a 3.91 will net lenweiler 0.1s over a 3.23. Anything above that, the gains are very small. Car should be able to run low 11's

[Mr.Mopar]

Hey, 1972 roadrunner, you have to use water to light up the tires on the NOS? Something doesn't seem right, I have huge, major wheel spin using NOS off the line. I can't even think of using it on the street until at least 2nd gear. Even off the NOS, off the line is major burn-out! Unbelieveable!! Whats with that?

[440cj]

Wellalrighty then, what I thought was 3.23's were actually 2.94's!!! Suregrip, no less. Couldn't figure out why once I engaged reverse I could barely give any gas without a hard shudder...always thought it was the headers hitting the oil pan. NOT! Come to find out the pin in the differential that holds the BIG pin in was broken in 4 places! Glad I was changing gears or else it would have soon been deceleration with an attitude and mucho scattered parts pieces bits stuff. Needless to say 3.90's create "wheelspin" to put it nicely. Later that same eve I re-installed the just-returned Demon Sizzler-rebuilt TQ after he did a "street-strip" rebuild. Whole lotta bottom end and lotsa black stripe action every time. Thanks to Dave and Motive gear she rocks! Now to figure out what kind of ignition upgrade to go to...(hint hint ) 440cj

[lenweiler]

Thanks for the reply. Your simulation may be crediting my engine with a little more snot than what I think it's capable of, since I know a tad more of it's contents. Yet your simulation does seem to co-oberate my enitial ground work. I was begining to feel a little depressed after paying Mancini Racing a grand for new 3.55 gears. Will soon see. I'll keep you posted. Len

[cuda66273]

72 RR:
Your too funny...water jets on the tires...LOL

You should point them at the competitors rear wheels and give him a blast at the light....LOL

You kids and your Giggle Juice, get off the drugs and build a real motor....Nitrous is for ricers....Real Mopar Men build motors.

[AAR4fun]

Are you for real?

Airshocks, shackles and tire squirters?

I'm feeling old...

[1972roadrunner]

hehe, yep, i'm for real! i didn't fake those pictures either...

cuda66273: lol, thats a good idea! too bad it'd be cheating...

the NOS is just in case....if someone starts gettin ahead of me at the strip, i might let her rip if the rules allow...

believe it or not, this car launches hard! no tire slip, no wheel hop! it is a neck snapper! my dad is even bewildered cause of the fact there isn't much weight transfer....but it does launch hard! probably not as hard as cuda66273's cuda with the tranny brake or whatever...or as hard as a standard that does get a grip.....but it's hard enuff for me...

[cuda66273]

"the NOS is just in case....if someone starts gettin ahead of me at the strip, i might let her rip if the rules allow..."

To me that's cheating, fake HP, ricer tricks, hell we have Mopars why cheat yourself into thinking that your really that fast....when the world comes to an end and we're all runnning around like the Road Warrior and eating canned dog food you'll be wishing you had built a real motor.....

[bbeckwith]

Hmmm, Road Warriors

You'd have to be on drugs to eat ALPO!

Bruce

[njdevil2]

......and maybe we'll all have clutch type superchargers, just like Mad Max!

I went from 3.23 to 3.55's and dropped about .5 with a sure grip.

Seat of the pants....REAL nice. 'specially since I was running 235-50-14 BFG's out back. Went to 275-60-15's made a difference in highway driving. Then the GER converter blew........(yeah, yeah I know....