Moparchat - Home of MOPAR enthusiasts worldwide!



Go Back   Moparchat - Home of MOPAR enthusiasts worldwide! > General Chat > Rumors and Gossip, etc...

Click here to search for Mopar cars and parts for sale.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-02-2002, 08:12 AM
John Tozer John Tozer is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canberra/Australian Capitol Territory
Age: 50
Posts: 157
Default Australian Horsepower War

The horsepower war that has been building between General Motors Holden, Fo Mo Co and Mitsubishi Motors is coming to an all new height this next few weeks down here in Australia, which may have ramifications in North America.

This weekend Ford will release the new Falcon line and introduces a whole new line of engines. The controversially styled AU model it replaces had a choice of 160kw SOHC straight six, 167kw XR6, 175kw VCT all at 4 litres and a V8 range of 185kw 5litre V8, 220kw V8 and the 5.4 litre Tickford stroker of 250kw.
The new 4.0 straight six line will now feature DOHC and VCT stock and starts with 190kw to the new 240kw turbo.The new V8 is even more impressive with the new 5.4ltr DOHC starting at 240kw to 260kw and a 4.6ltr engine rumoured to have 320kw.

This is going to absolutely cruch the new Holden Commodore range wich is still lumbered with the same 3.8ltr pushrod V6 it has used since 1989 VN. This time around the old donk has 155kw and the supercharged model has 180kw. The 5.7ltr LS1 Chev V8 with 220kw was all new last model and replaced the old 5.0 ltr 165kw Aussie V8. The new Commodore will put out 225kw but looks conservative compared to the new Falcon.
Both cars retain rear wheel drive and have new wagon and ute variants, but only Ford has a 1 tonne tray back option. Ford does not however have a two door model to counter the Monaro.

Now you allready know by now in North America that the Monaro will be the next Pontiac GTO and the Commodore ute will be the Chevrolet El Camino, but Bob Lutz is now considering a new rear drive GM line based on the Australian car. Fo Mo Co USA is also considering it's Australian line of Vehicles in light of the success of using it for the new Jaguar line in the UK.

Now even Mitsubishi in Adelaide is joining the horsepower war with the new model featuring a 3.5ltre 180kw V6. They know they don't have the grunt of the other two and are limited with front wheel drive so the rumour is an all wheel drive line to out handle the competition, and they want to export to the US.

I think Daimler Chrysler need a real wake up call to start giving the punters out there what they really want. Rear drive four door six cylinder sedans and wagons with both manual and V8 option accross the range. That's right the kind of cars that Mopar built better than any other maker. Horsepower and rear drive is back in and mini vans have proven to suck compared to the all round ability of the traditional station wagon.
Nobody can complain at all about the direction of Dodges
's commercial line of vehicles which are leading the world in truck design but Dodge and Chrysler's car line can do with a new direction. If not they risk giving up the market to the competition.

I love Chryslers and live for the day I can aquire a new rear drive V8 four door cruiser to park along side my 77. It would be even better if it was built in Australia too like the good old days.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-02-2002, 08:09 PM
the bruiser the bruiser is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 29
Default

Translate the kw to horsepower. Thanks for the info about the Oz car scene.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-02-2002, 10:07 PM
thehemi's Avatar
thehemi thehemi is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Texas
Posts: 309
Default

Kilowatt * 1.341 = Horsepower
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-03-2002, 12:55 AM
AussieCuda AussieCuda is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Perth, Australia
Age: 52
Posts: 28
Default

I'm pretty sure that the old 5ltr V8 and Tickford stroked version have been dropped with the release of the new Falcon, and that all V8 engines are the new 5.4ltr item built in Canada.

The base V8 engine puts out 220kw, the XR8 puts out 260kw and the GT is rumoured to be inexcess of 300kw. There will be no 4.6ltr engine.

The 6cyl starts with 182kw.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-06-2002, 10:38 PM
John Tozer John Tozer is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canberra/Australian Capitol Territory
Age: 50
Posts: 157
Default

DOH!
Sorry I got the power figure for the stock six wrong as 190kw, as for the mention of the last range of engines was to illustrate the increases in power for the new model.

I know there is no 4.6 litre quad cam in the new Falcon, but I have read that they have tested this engine in a Falcon for a possible future GT. I would not be surprised if the whole idea was dropped as it would be very expensive.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-06-2002, 10:58 PM
AussieCuda AussieCuda is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Perth, Australia
Age: 52
Posts: 28
Default

Well we're going to see the GT unveiled at the Sydney Motor show later this month, and is hinted by Ford to use the same engine as the new GT40. That is, all alloy quad cam 5.4 litre engine. Can't wait to see the power output!

Keep an eye out this weekend at Bathurst for the first V8 Supercar version on the BA developed by Ford. Will only be on display, not racing. It's been said that the GT will look as much like the V8 Supercar as is legal for the street.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-07-2002, 06:41 PM
Maxwedge Maxwedge is offline
Moderator and HEMI FIEND
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Redondo Beach California
Age: 24
Posts: 2,608
Default

Doesn’t Subaru export a 300hp (220kw or so) version of of its awd WRX? And does Nissan export its Skyline(a Twin Turbo flat 6 that puts down 400bhp through a 6 speed and all 4 wheels)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-09-2002, 06:18 AM
John Tozer John Tozer is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canberra/Australian Capitol Territory
Age: 50
Posts: 157
Default

The Subaru Impreza STI was released in very limited numbers in Australia and cost a shitload of money over the regular WRX turbo which isn't cheap either. The only R35 Skylines I have seen down here are imports that are even more expensive than the Subaru.
The main point here though is that these cars are not built in Australia and would not fit into the family sedan category. The engines that these vehicles are fitted with are not available on cheaper models either.
In Australia even a base model Falcon or Commodore sedan and wagon can be ordered with a V8 option and manual transmission aswell.
The only way to get fair amount of power from a Japanese car is to buy their top of the range vehicles which cost at least twice as much as an Australian built car.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-09-2002, 01:48 PM
coldasice coldasice is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: SF,CA
Posts: 4
Default

Don't you mean R34 Skyline?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-09-2002, 02:02 PM
Maxwedge Maxwedge is offline
Moderator and HEMI FIEND
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Redondo Beach California
Age: 24
Posts: 2,608
Default

Yeah...its a Nissan isnt it? Ive seen one gray market Nissan here in SoCal. Boring looking car(like any other sport sedan) but a fearsom reputation.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-17-2002, 01:35 AM
John Tozer John Tozer is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canberra/Australian Capitol Territory
Age: 50
Posts: 157
Default Update

I went down to the loacal Ford and Holden dealerships earlier this week to check out the new Falcon and Commodore range now they're finally here.
The new VY Commodore is about the ugliest car I have seen in a while, truely over styled and lacking taste. Wierd headlights, weird taillights and weird angles everywhere. And just to think in this day and age they still can't manage an overhead cam in any vehicle as they persist with the 3.8 litre V6 and LS1 V8.
The new BA Falcon on the other hand has finally styled an attractive yet tough looking vehicle to make up for their last effort with the AU. The 182kw 4.O litre twin cam 24 valve VCT straight six Barra engine is an impressive lump indeed as is the 220kw 5.4 litre Barra 24 valve VCT V8, the 260kw 32 valve V8 is not far away from release. The six cylinder with select shift style 5spd auto and V8 with 6spd manual were both in base model cars, good stuff.

Now Holden HSV has gone all out with a limmited run of Monaro's fitted with a 440kw 427 cubic inch Chev monster that will cost over $200,000 Aus!

Please Ma Mopar we need something to fight back with. Chrysler and Dodge need a rear drive car line now! Start with the 3.5 V6 as standard, then the 4.7 Powertech and at the top a Hemi V8 and make all engines available in the base model with optional manual. Maybe release an R/T with Viper V10 power available in four and two door.
And remember to send them down south with RHD!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-17-2002, 04:46 AM
Maxwedge Maxwedge is offline
Moderator and HEMI FIEND
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Redondo Beach California
Age: 24
Posts: 2,608
Default

I really dont see why non americans ar eso possesed by OHC tech. Its not newer than pushrod tech. OHC motors were the first Over head valve motors AND the most powerful piston motors(NHRA) use Pushrods. 9000rpm Hemis with superchargers running 9000bhp...I dont know of a single OHC motor that even approaches half that number.
Pushrods are 1)Newer 2)Make more power.
PLUS the fact that for its displacement(5.7 liter) the Chevy get WAYYYY better fuel economy than anything in its Hp class or displacement. The Lambo V12 DOHC motor gets about half the fuel economy as the chevy, and the 3.8 Liter Ferrari gets about 85 hp more and about 12mpg Highway with the added advantage of being MUCH slower than the ZO6 Chevy 5.7 Liter....wahts not to like about a pushrod when you have to pay more than 5x its price for worse fuel economy and less power?
The MR2 Spider with the 1.8 Liter gets worse fuel economy than a ZO6 Corvett....Same too with the S2000 or almost any other Asian performance car.
Stack fuel economy and Horse power and the Z06 and Viper V10 are on top...WAYYYYYY on top.
Rant over
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-21-2002, 05:21 PM
ausval 440 ausval 440 is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: adelaide sth australia
Posts: 32
Default vy

I agree the vy has very poor styling, but it hasnt slowed sales down one bit! the new ss is very popular with the middle east market of which were sending 150 cars a day at the moment, now there also asking for the monaro and utes!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-21-2002, 05:25 PM
charger38's Avatar
charger38 charger38 is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: ottawa/ontario
Posts: 9
Thumbs up

Well fear not, the new LX's will have RHD versions and they will most likely come with the 400hp hemi. It'll be a couple years, but hang in there...the hemi will ride again in Australia!!!!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-30-2002, 01:34 AM
John Tozer John Tozer is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canberra/Australian Capitol Territory
Age: 50
Posts: 157
Default

Thank you for giving me hope for the future with that news charger 38.

Maxwedge, after searching US websites, it would appear that North America is fairly keen on overhead cam technology like the rest of the world. Don't get me wrong, I am not anti pushrod and enjoy my 318 Fireball.
A few points must be mentioned however, Chrysler overhead cam engines have proven to be the best family sedan engines available in North America. The 200hp 2.7 DOHC 24 valve V6 matches the Ford Taurus 3.0 V6 and the 3.8 GM V6 which are both larger whilst the 250hp 3.5 OHC 24 valve V6 engine totaly crushes the opposition. That's more power than GM's supercharged pushrod V6, and I do believe that multi valve technology has something to do with it. I do not believe that a twin cam 4 valve per cylinder pushrod engine has been built since the 1930's. Having multiple valves helps to flow more fuel air mixture and variable cam timing/lift technology that has appeared of late has improved engine flexibilty also.
Yes top fuel grag cars do produce the most horsepower in the world but huge displacement, forced induction and nitromethane fuel are factors here. I would have to say that as these engines are rebuilt often, pushrods would make sense but this is still not a convincing arguement that pushrods are superior to overhead cams. Formula 1 has seen overhead cam technology develop through the decades and enable some fairly small displacement engines to reach enormous power and engine speeds over very long distances in extreme race conditions.
As for the fuel economy figures for the 5.8 LSI Chev, 1.8 VVTLI Toyota and S2000 Honda, I could not find them on the web so I will have to believe you, but if small displacement 4 cylinder engines can flow as much fue/air mixture as a V8 then this speaks volumes for OHC and multivalves.
But this is all missing the point as I am not at all concerned with sports cars and exotics but rather Australian and North American four door family sedans.
Corvettes, Mustangs and Vipers are not within the reach of the majority of workers, so the market lies in performance engine options on family size sedans and wagons.
Why the Hemi is a great engine is that a hemispherical combustion chamber enables large valves and centrally located spark plugs to be fitted removing the need for multivalves and OHC on the V8.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-30-2002, 10:03 AM
charger38's Avatar
charger38 charger38 is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: ottawa/ontario
Posts: 9
Default

Chrysler is also testing some supercharged Hemi's and they are putting out more power then the viper V-10. Though down a little on torque. Will this make it to production??????? Time will tell but if it does it will likely be in a SRT version. And there is a posibility a 300hp hemi V6 will make it to production. We can only hope it does. Nothing against the 3.7 and 4.7 ohc, but they are to weak, very toyota in power and performance. Falling behind GM is unacceptable. It would be so nice having a V6 that beats ford,gm, and toyota V8's in power.
And hopefully Chrysler will give us the 2 door charger to compete with the Monaro thats going to be the GTO here. With traditional styling.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-09-2002, 08:48 AM
John Tozer John Tozer is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canberra/Australian Capitol Territory
Age: 50
Posts: 157
Default

A Hemi six to slay the oppositions V8's would be a fantastic return!
In Australia the 265 Hemi straight six in six pack form could out accelerate GM's GTS 350 and FoMoCo's GTHO 351. A Hemi V6 of 259ci with multipoint EFI should be able to put out similar power if not more.
I must say I am surprised at the number of V6's Chrysler allready sells so I would be surprised if the V6 Hemi became reality. I have only recently become familiar with vehicles currently available in the US; the Voyager 3.3 pushrod V6, the Ram 3.9 pushrod V6, the Intrepid 2.7, 3.2 and 3.5 OHC V6's and the new Cherokee 3.7 OHC V6. Am I right in guessing there are 4 different V6 lines? Is there any other maker that offers such broad a range? Could the 250hp 3.5 HO V6 be converted to rear drive application?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-11-2002, 04:45 AM
plonky's Avatar
plonky plonky is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orange NSW Australia
Posts: 72
Default Australian Horsepower War

Hi.
This is my first post on this forum, and fortunately there is a subject that I have detailed knowledge about.

In regards to the current 'horsepower war' between Ford and GM, I am very pleased as this means I will always get the fastest car for work (Highway Patrol). Currently a crap GM Holden Commodore with GEN 3/300hp, soon to be a good Ford Falcon XR8 with 335hp/260kw 5.4 litre Quad Cam. (I hate GM crap!!!!_

This form of one upmanship has been going on for quite a while between Ford and GM, and due to an unassailable lead in passenger car sales, Ford have pulled out all stops to finally replace the Windsor V8 (5 litre/302 cid 220kw/300hp) with a 5.4 Triton V8 with an Australian designed twin camshaft/4 valve cylinder head rated at 260kw/335hp and 290kw/395hp for the performance GT Falcon.

Daimler Chrysler has a big problem here in Australia and that is very much due to importing the wrong car/not finding a niche market in Australia.

Apart from the PT Cruiser and the Jeep Cherokee, anything else has been a dud. I don't know how the Neon could ever be sold here against local and Japanese competition...it was a joke of a car (sorry but true)

The PT Cruiser looks great but for the money there were better buying cars (and it was front wheel drive...yuk! and too slow) The Jeep sold well mainly because of price, not because of build quality or dynamics (of which it lacked in both)

Without denigrating the President of Chrysler Aust. because she is a woman, but I really don't think she has a passion for motor vehicles, knows what enthusiasts want, and has missed an awesome opportunity to increase the brand awareness of Chrysler by contributing to the V8 Supercar Series with a rear wheel drive, fuel injected Mopar 5 Litre V8 based upon the Intrepid. This is the biggest form of motorsport in Australia and is second in popularity to Australian Football (stupid game)

The Dodge Viper is raced over here in the Nations Cup Series (against Porsche/Lamborghini/Ferrari etc) but it is not as high a profile as the V8 Supercars.

I would love to see Chrysler/Dodge sold over here again in a rear wheel drive format with proper V8 engines that MUST put out the type of horsepower that we expect in Australia (minimum 300 hp for the base model) and MUST have rear wheel drive (front wheel drive is for little Jap cars, not family sized cars)

I just think it will be wishful thinking and I'm glad that I can still drive my '69 Plymouth Fury 3 hardtop with 440 Magnum/475hp around when I feel like it.

It's always the way, someone will always stuff up something that's good when they don't have the passion for the product. Who was the galoot that got rid of the Plymouth brand (that had the best muscle cars of all time - Road Runner, 'Cuda, Fury etc)

Cheers
Grant
Orange, NSW
Australia
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-17-2002, 07:55 AM
John Tozer John Tozer is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canberra/Australian Capitol Territory
Age: 50
Posts: 157
Default

Hey Plonky welcome to the board.

So their gonna give ya a new XR8 to patrol, lucky bastard! If ya end up with an XR6 though, you shouldn't be too dissapointed.
It is interesting to note that down here in the ACT I've seen the AFP use Voyagers and Volvos aswell as the obligatory Dunnydoors. The other day I saw them testing the new visible safety patrol car which was a Subaru WRX painted in larey colours. I'm starting to think the coppers down here get treated like yuppies.
It seems to be a trend as I recently went down to Wangaratta Victoria for the blues festival and they were testing a safety patrol car aswell, an $80,000 SAAB turbo!
I think the local car manufactures can build a faster car for less money so I wonder why police forces around Australia are testing expensive imports.

On the news front I just found out that Mitsubishi is allready starting production on the all wheel drive Magna and recent performance tests give it a big thumbs up.
Other big news is Falcon winning Wheels Magazine's car of the year for the first time in 36 years and then following that up by over taking GMH and Toyota in the sales race.

I sense a shift in the force.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-18-2002, 12:23 AM
plonky's Avatar
plonky plonky is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orange NSW Australia
Posts: 72
Default Horsepower Ware

Hi John,

The cars such as the Saab in Victoria, the GTO Monaro in Vic, the Alfa Romeo in NSW, the Volvo Turbo wagon in the ACT etc, are donated cars used for high profile operations.

As far as Highway Patrol cars go, I'm a Ford man through and through (have to be seeing we don't have a Chrysler option) and there is no way I will drive those crap, overrated General Motors junk boxes.

I think what is more important is that Australia still produce family sized rear wheel drive cars with big horsepower motors. I really feel sorry for new car buyers in the States. I don't think there is a comparable car for the money like the Australian Falcon and Commondore.

Say 'NO' to front wheel drive !! It's great for little cars....but little cars will always be little cars.

PS MY wife has an Alfa Romeo 147 Selespeed because she hates my Dodge.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-18-2002, 06:17 AM
valnut's Avatar
valnut valnut is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Queensland Australia
Age: 52
Posts: 5
Default Aussie Chryslers

Oh to be back in the 70's on the force where you could drive a hot charger. I'm presently studying to join the force and i dont like the thought of being in a commodore for a full shift. The new awd magna still doesn't cut the mustard in this country as far as performance family sedans are concerned. Does anyone know about the V8 magna rumour thats been doing the traps in the local magazines over the past few months for the V8 supercar races. I hope it's not just a bad joke. Regards, Tim- VALNUT
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-18-2002, 11:33 PM
plonky's Avatar
plonky plonky is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orange NSW Australia
Posts: 72
Default Magna V8 Rumour

The Magna V8 rumour for V8 Supercars is just that....a rumour. My best friend is a Supercar pilot (as well as Formula Holden and Carrera Cup for 2003) and he hasn't heard of anything.

After speaking to some of the more senior drivers within the Series, they can't see how TEGA would agree considering the amount of money invested by both Ford and GM. If it did happen the third manufacturer would have to spend a similar amount of money and they would have a comparable number of teams. Otherwise they would be gaining a considerable brand image and exposure at the expense of Ford and GM who have spent almost a billion in the past 10 years.

I think it would be too expensive for Mitsubishi, especially after the Federal Government poured money into the company to stay in Australia.

Cheers
Grant
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-19-2002, 11:28 AM
Maxwedge Maxwedge is offline
Moderator and HEMI FIEND
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Redondo Beach California
Age: 24
Posts: 2,608
Default

[QUOTE]Originally posted by John Tozer
[B]Maxwedge, after searching US websites, it would appear that North America is fairly keen on overhead cam technology like the rest of the world. Don't get me wrong, I am not anti pushrod and enjoy my 318 Fireball.

Small displacement motors are fine with OHC tech. The problem is when you start to try and apply that to a big bore application is becomes harder to get a complete burn across the whole piston face. Thus the need for a quinch motor. Ford has has some success with OHC Big Bore V8s, but certainly their un supercharged versions havent been that competative with the CHevy Pushrod V8s. No one is competative when it comes to Horspower, to Displacement to fuel economy. Its even more sad when you look at just horsepower to fueleconomy of all diplacements. GM has achieved a pretty high standard.

A few points must be mentioned however, Chrysler overhead cam engines have proven to be the best family sedan engines available in North America. The 200hp 2.7 DOHC 24 valve V6 matches the Ford Taurus 3.0 V6 and the 3.8 GM V6 which are both larger whilst the 250hp 3.5 OHC 24 valve V6 engine totaly crushes the opposition. That's more power than GM's supercharged pushrod V6,

MW
GMs pushrod 3.8 has been around for 20 years. Tho I will agree that isnt a very good excuse for poor performance.

and I do believe that multi valve technology has something to do with it. I do not believe that a twin cam 4 valve per cylinder pushrod engine has been built since the 1930's.

MW
Nooooooo Im not saying that. a 4 valve pushrod motor would be needlessly complex.
The thought is a Multivalve motor makes up for lost torque on smaller displacement motors. and at lower lift/flow the multivalve motors make better power. However once you start revving really high and flowing alot of mixture the returns start to diminish. ie the most powerful piston motors(NHRA and Prostock) all run pushrod motors. No F1 motor puts out 5000bhp, well not for long anyway.

Having multiple valves helps to flow more fuel air mixture and variable cam timing/lift technology that has appeared of late has improved engine flexibilty also.

MW
It could well be argued that it diminishes it, unless you have a Vtec setup. Also the added cam gear and valves add friction to the motor and the added valve springs offer increased rollign resistaince to the motor. The also add points of failure...more crap to break...

MW
Yes top fuel grag cars do produce the most horsepower in the world but huge displacement, forced induction and nitromethane fuel are factors here. I would have to say that as these engines are rebuilt often, pushrods would make sense but this is still not a convincing arguement that pushrods are superior to overhead cams. Formula 1 has seen overhead cam technology develop through the decades and enable some fairly small displacement engines to reach enormous power and engine speeds over very long distances in extreme race conditions.

MW
all I got to say is NASCAR. Thier restricted motors put out 650 hp and could easily hit 800-900 if left alone by the sanctioning commities...thats unsupercharged. Lets see a OHC motor develop that kind of power without Forced induction. Id dare say the only place you will is in IRL(Indy Racing league)

As for the fuel economy figures for the 5.8 LSI Chev, 1.8 VVTLI Toyota and S2000 Honda, I could not find them on the web so I will have to believe you, but if small displacement 4 cylinder engines can flow as much fue/air mixture as a V8 then this speaks volumes for OHC and multivalves.

MW
try Carpoint.com or Motortrend. Fuel injectors can push any amount of fuel you want. Fuel rate isnt limited to cam and head flow potiential due tot eh fact that intakes are no longer wet running. Id tend to think that burning the same or more fuel, and making less horsepower and slower times leads me to believe they have inferior engineering.
If I spend the same amount on an investment as my buddy bob, but he makes more money on his investment, am I not a bad investor when compared to bob?
all in good fun, cheers
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
He Who Drinks Australian - Thinks Australian! VGVALIANT70 Joke Forum 1 04-15-2006 01:53 PM
Australian Mopars... Ron Henry Off-Topic Forum 3 06-27-2002 05:56 PM
Australian for BEER ehostler Joke Forum 1 04-19-2002 04:16 AM
Australian MoPar abracabratby Restoring your MoPar (Tricks & techniques) 1 01-28-2002 04:33 PM
An Italian a frenchman and an Australian... BillyBob Joke Forum 0 10-10-2000 10:39 PM




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
. . . . .