I've Got Some Rules For NASCAR!

[Ericmopar]

1.By 2005, all vehicles must be represented by a production model that is V8, rear drive and no more than 300 cubic inches and has 2 doors.
2. Only stock sheet metal may be used. No modifications of any sort to body work will be allowed.
3. All engines can have smog removed, but must use stock block and cylinder heads.
4.Computers and fuel injection may be used.( Lets get them out of the Dark Ages)!
5. The computer programing may be modified. However the computer hardware and outer case must remain stock.
6. Drive-line; Transmission, driveshaft,rear axle must remain stock. However driveshaft safety loops, scatter shields will be required. Independent rear suspention may be used.( Lets get them out of the Dark Ages )!
7.Interior will have what ever safety equipment is deemed nesessary.
8.Intake manifolds may be the, single plane low rise type, on which the stock fuel injection rails and fuel injectors of stock external dimentions will be used.
I would still expect bigger cams, better tires and wheels ect. for safety, but lets get the "Stock" back in stock car racing.

That should get things back to their roots and help out the auto consumers both.

What do you people think?

[Loghead]

V8...rear drive?
Won't happen, but they could go a long way toward "stock" simply by using as much stock sheet metal as is practical, and using engines that are offered in SOMETHING we can buy (trucks) with fuel injection (good idea!!!)
End the Goodyear stranglehold and allow teams to use whatever tires work best for them.
Give everyone the same airdam and spoiler dimensions, and beyond that.... May the best man win!

[sanborn]

I understand everyone's desire for a return to real "stock" cars. But, it won't happen! Here's why; Nascar mandates the chassis rules for interchangeability and for safety. There is no way the present car chassis could withstand the stress of racing much less withstand an impact with a nonmoveable object(wall) at today's racing speeds. In addition, what about glass front/rear windshields? Today they are lexan and are basically standardized in shape and size to fit all makes. They are expensive, what would the cost be to fit the exact shape and contour of each individual make/model?

As for engines, extensive use of electronics for ignition and fuel/air induction would drive development cost out the roof. Again, with each make being totally different the devlopment cost would be much higher. Today, the ignition is essentially interchangeable between brands-the same for carburators. As for block/heads; we would see a very large number of failures-because todays engines are just not designed/built with racing in mind-only light weight/fuel economy, etc.

I could go on and on. I'm not trying to fight everyone, I really don't like "cookie cutter" cars either, but I don't see a viable alternative that would provide driver safety, speed and fan appeal.

Nascar has gotten where they are today because of "fan appeal", they are in the entertainment business, not in the "stock car" business. The cars are just a vehicle used to provide entertainment.

[Ericmopar]

My rules are not absolute, just a guide line. I would expect roll cages and striped down interiors for safety,(see rule #7).
As to fuel injection and such costing to much, I don't think so. There is already a sizable aftermarket aimed at "stock computer controled vehicles" and I stipulate using stock hardware with modified programing,( see rule#5).
You say that a stock chassis wouldn't deal with the stresses of racing, I guess that means theres a whole lot of cars on the road like Corvetts, Mustangs, Vipers, Ferraries that should be recalled, do to safety problems at high speed? Some production cars go over 200mph. stock!
Stock blocks and heads also would save money ( see rule #3 ).
My rules, or something along those lines would force auto makers to quit selling us crap and improve a hot rodders chances of getting bolt on parts for their newer cars.



I rest my case.

[AVENGER29]

I feel very offended, have several friends involved with nascar, very close friend is the race engineer for the 48 team, i guarantee this young man is as smart as they come.
Take a great deal of ingenuity to overcome complicated rules and win consistently, no room for dummies there!!!
One has only to look at the complicated computer systems they are using to develop and persue their R&D programs, yes the cars have little electronics but that is were it ends.
Like Sanborn i dont like cookie cutter cars, but I suggest we return to lots of short tracks, were aero push and other crap doesnt matter, but were brains, talent and grande wabbles matter's most...i say give me Bristol or give me death!!!

Avenger

[GaryS]

No one hates the clone-car formula more than I do, but they will never return to stock-based cars in Winston Cup.

What I would like to see is a formula similar to the old North American Touring Car Series. Take off the on-board jacks and driver-adjustable suspension. Put some constraints on the engines and transmissions to further reduce costs and put them on an oval track.

I would pay to watch that type of series, but I will not pay to watch another Winston Cup or Busch race. I've held two PSL's at TMS since the track opened, but I recently put them up for sale because I just don't enjoy Winston Cup any more. I do attend the truck races, but even they are beginning to suffer the same fate of the Cup cars...over-manipulation of rules in an effort to maintain parity.

[AVENGER29]

Good more tickets for the rest of us, already planned Bristol night race with my youngest daughter and Talladega(October race) with the wifey for next year, as well as my wet drenched out Dallas race with the buddies, which is getting hard to stomach.(due to the weather). But we consume some much cold beverage that it really doesnt matter after a while.

Avenger

[Ericmopar]

O.K. I have removed the uncalled for remark about NASCAR mechanics. I'm getting frustrated because I've been reading so many complaints about the cars not being anything at all related to a stock vehicle, so I post some Ideas, but not intended to be, absolute rules, and get more negative feedback.
I'm very aware of the electronic nature of Winston cup cars, and in fact allready know, much of whats there can be used to monitor and regulate fuel injection for instance.
My intent with my sugestions is to make it so "Win ON Sunday, Buy On Monday" means a little something again. I wouldn't care if NASCAR changed the rules so the cars had to be front wheel drive as long as they go back to something resembling a prodution vehicle I would be a lot happier.
I don't actually want to see a stock vehicle going around the tracks, but I would like to see hotrodded production vehicles racing.

[AVENGER29]

Would love to strut into a dealership and buy an affordable bad to the bone hotrod, but guess what I aint holding my breath.
However the much anticipated Mach 1 coming soon, might be a whole lot of fun, especially since mine is ordered( azul blue loaded unit), should look nice in the garage beside momma's white gt convertible. Im die hard mopar fanatic, but Dodge hasn't done much to excite me in some time, at least not one that i can afford, no Viper in my budget...
The golden days when stock cars were stocks cars is long gone, want to see some real side by side stock car action, go to your local tracks, we do battle there every sat nite....

Avenger

[GaryS]

Avenger29, why don't you send some of these folks who can't find tickets my way. My PSL's cost $1250 each and when I put them on e-bay, there was not one single bid. There was not one response to my ad in the FW Star Telegram, and no responses to ads posted on two ticket exchange websites.

So much for the bs about a waiting line for season tickets.

If I can't get a couple hundred each, I'm going to cut the license into 4" squares, put them on a roll and send the roll to Eddie Gossage along with a suggestion.

[sanborn]

Eric, I'm not trying to be negative about your ideas, just trying to point out some of the practical aspect of it.

I would love to see real production based V8 engines used in the series. But then GM would trot out their $34K option SB2 headed engine they used to get the SB2 design approved by Nascar in the first place. Note! At least Nascar wouldn't approve the aluminum block!

You see, Nascar has gotten so popular, sponsorships have gotten so high($8-15 mil for primary sponsor, then there are associate sponsors, secondary sponsors, per race sponsors, etc.-the total for some teams is $12-20Mil/year) that the teams will spend whatever it takes to get that edge. And opening up the electronics and fuel injection just gets the technology going through the roof again.

Avenger mentioned what I personally would like to see-short tracks! Aerodynamics doesn't affect it as much(although some for sure), we could bid farewell to restrictor plates, and frankly the safety would be enhanced due to lower speeds.

I watch Nascar races (some) but frankly, they are boring! Give me a good Dirt Super Late Model race anytime! But I do like the technology fallout (for our racing)!

[AVENGER29]

Dont mis-understand me Eric, would love to buy on monday what won on sunday, but that is far from realistic. Times have change, Nascar is still a fine institution, and without them corporate sponsorship at our levels would probably never occur.

Because of the growth of Nascar, many companies that would have never look twice at the local sat nite racer are now seriously interested, and some are seeing real sponsorship money, not just a few parts or some cases of oil.
We race 2 dirt stock cars and a dirt kart out of our shop, one, our primary car has a corporate sponsor ( AER MFG Inc.) and numerous secondary sponsors, when we exploded a new engine a few weeks ago, a brand new ready engine was waiting on the floor. Im a parts & service director in a large car dealer, my wife a reg.nurse and we do real well, but there is no way i could afford to have spare engines ready without real help. We would still race without real sponsors, but probably would not do it at the level we are at....
Now imagine the average Joe that has 3 kids at home and wifey doesnt work, I know some guys like that, and they are struggling big time to get there. I race against some of those guys, and even get beat by some at times...but you know when those guys need to scale a car, our shop is always open for them to come and use the equipment, I remember when i was one of them!!

Avenger

[Ericmopar]

I still don't think going to electronic fuel injection would drive costs "Thru the roof". There are allready fuel injection conversion kits for older, non fuel injected cars, from companys like Holly and Acell. A racer can do either port or throttle body injection. These kits are affordable even to most street rodders. These kits are also very easy to program now, in fact I believe the Acell kit reads off the o2 sensor and will self program the base fuel curve.
After the base fuel curve is plotted on a very handy laptop displayed graff, the tuner can simply click and drag the the fuel curve where he or she wants it to be. A crew chief could fine tune the fuel curve, and the ignition timing for that matter, during a quick pit stop or even by a radio link if they chose to set it up that way.
Just imagine, all the extra pratice time the racers would get if they didn't have to stop and go into the paddock every time they the needed a minor adjustment to the engine.
With more pratice time maybe some of those drivers (who shall remain nameless to protect the guilty) will stop crashing so often, and save millions of dollars on replacement cars.HE,HE,HE.
I realise that this is getting away from a modified stock based computer system wich is rule #5, but it would standardise the computer system much the same way as is done now with the carbs. and ignitions.
Whats really cool about these aftermarket systems is you can save more than one program. In a street application, you can have a program for fuel economy for commuting or long trips, a program for the track, if your a weekend racer, and a program for towing if its hooked up to a truck for instance. In fact there are people using these after market computers in hot rodded Dakotas for just those reasons, and they are designed to work with just about any off the shelf sensors. You just plug in to the connector in the vehicle and download the program of choice for the driving of the day. All you have to do is tap into the stock wiring harness. doesn't matter if its Dodge, Chevy or whatever you have, the same computer works for everything.
The only thing you have to replace (if you want it to self program the base fuel curve) is buy and install a "wide band" o2 sensor.


later Eric.

[Frank]

I think that the use of stock sheet metal, and equil sized airdams and spoilers for all cars is a good start. I like to see that, at least!

I'd also like to see rule set for the entire season, with the exception of those that impact safety. I'd also like to see any rule change, even for safety, be an "across the board" change.

[Ericmopar]

I too, would like to see the rules stay the same after the racing season starts. I also like the exception, for rule changes being for safety, and the across the board rule change idea.
I for one, have quit watching Indy races because of all the mid season rule changes. I remember when some poor Indy car driver figured out how to beat the big money teams with a simple but legal air skirt modification. The jerks in CART rewrote the rules, out lawing the modification before the race even started. If I remember correctly, the mod was painfully cheap to do also.
I also remember when Roger Pennsky came out with those new Indy cars under the, Two Valves Per Cylinder Rules, that hardly any body knew about. The jerks changed the rules on him too after about 3 races.

Any more good Ideas?

Lets start a "grass roots movement" in NASCAR!
Lets start a letter writing campaign and flood NASCARs mail box!
Lets tell them to keep the politics on Capital Hill !


Eric ( sick and tired of NASCARS politics ) Mopar.

Now I have to go out and do a rain dance. We're having another drought here in the Golden State.

[Loghead]

I've never been able to find an e-mail address (or snail mail for that matter) on any of those jokers!
It's like they don't want to hear it.

[*Mopar*]

Hi all,

If you are going to have a flat tax. It should be a true flat tax. If the tax % is 10% and someone makes $10,000 the tax is $1,000. If someone has the brains or ability to make $200,000 a yr then the tax is $20,000. If either one of them want to have 1 kid or 12 kids there are no deductions. It's there problem, not everyone else in the US problem.

I've said all of this to say this. If the tax is 10% the tax is 10%. If it is a stock car race it should be a stock care race. Take them off the show room floor, remove all of the hazard stuff,( glass, head lights) replace it with something to fill the hole. Put a roll cage or anthing else to help safty, and tires. And go racing. If it doesn't make it to the end of the race they loose. If one maker gets the areo just right that's they win. The other makes will work harder to get it better next time. I bet more people will fallow the race than you think. And, more people would buy on Monday too.

I have thought this way for years. On taxes and racing. And I've talked to lots of others who think the same.

Thanks,
Stoney

[72Challenger]

So then Stoney, when are you running for President? You've got my vote! Trouble is, you've got too much common sense to actually win. All of the politicians who control the parties would never let you get to the primaries.

[Ericmopar]

Actually... You can do whats called a "Write in ballot". All we have to do, is write in "Stoney", in the area that asks who do you want for President.
The only problem is, then he won't have time for running NASCAR, under my proposed rule changes!