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Old 10-12-2002, 10:12 PM
Doug Wilson Doug Wilson is offline
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Well... The sailor son broke a lifter and has decided to make the '66 Barracuda into a drag race only car. He is thinking that he would like to achieve 500 horsepower, naturally aspirated, with the 340. I think he may be nuts. After he cleans up the shortblock, I'm looking to figure out what to do. He has stock 340 rods and plans to replace them with Oliveer rods - if I can ever get cuda66273 to give me a price. The block is well prepped, but I could use suggestions on the oiling system. I need to find out what you guys think he needs: 1) in a solid lifter cam 2) will the stock unported Edelbrock heads support that level of horsepower 3) will the RPM Air Gap still work - if not, what?

If you have any thoughts or questions... now is the time.

Thank you all
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Old 10-13-2002, 03:27 AM
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You'll never get 500 hp out of those Edelbrock heads. Better start looking at the w -2's ,'5s, 6's,7's, 9's. Then you'll need the w intake to match the heads. Better be thinking forged high comp. pistons and such. Hope that helps a little.
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Old 10-13-2002, 04:30 AM
Doug Wilson Doug Wilson is offline
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It has SRP forged flat tops with floating pins. Do you have any opinion of the Indy worked-on Ed. heads??
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Old 10-13-2002, 04:54 AM
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Floating pins are always good. Flat tops are good too. They don't really need to be worked over like a dome top dose. Don't forget to have this thing line honed and bored using a plate.
Windage trays and good oil pumps and pans with baffles. Don't forget to use the cam drive gear with the hardened tip or it will break.
I had trouble on sealing heads on some of my small block heads. I started using arp head studs and it went away. I think the stock bolts were streching.
Don't know what cam your using, but don't forget those roller rocker arms, and a lifter valley baffel. It will keep the hot oil off your intake and hold the lifters in if you break a pushrod or rocker arm. It's insurance. If the lifter gets knocked out 'cause of other problems the oil pressure will drop and kill the motor. With it you will have a chance to shut it down yourself before too much more damage can be done.
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Old 10-13-2002, 05:17 AM
Doug Wilson Doug Wilson is offline
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Thanks for the comments.

The block was align bored and align honed about 200 miles ago when I first built it - torque plates were used. It has a windage tray and a Mellings high-volume oil pump. It's using an RPM Air-Gap, so no hot oil on the good parts of the manifold. It also has the good Cloyes ($100) double roller timing set.

I'm looking for thoughts about the heads and recommendations on a solid lifter cam. I already have 1.6 ratio Crane Gold Race Roller lifters and MP 1 7/8 fenderwell exit headers.

Thank you, again.
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Old 10-13-2002, 08:44 AM
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Good pieces. The cam really depends on how much compression 'cause I know the mopar 292 .509 likes a bunch. Depends on gears,tires,axle ratios,1/4 or 1/8 mile. car weight and so on.
As for heads I still like the w's. You can get w-2 cast iron head (at least from my dealer) for around 475 each. It's cheaper than the 308's that I just heard are now going to be discontinued when they run out. You can get the first gen. w2's with cast in pedestals so you can run your old stock type valve gear.
I'll tell you a little about my engine to get an idea and you can see how you can get the hp you want with many diff. set ups. I run a 365 on dirt tracks. It's over 400, but I wont say how much. I use an 800 cfm thermoquad with a four hole spacer to get good low end torque and a good vacumm signal at the carb. 308 heads 2.02 int. 1.60 exh., 10.7:1 comp., but the cams are diff for the two diff. 1/4 mile tracks I run. Ones banked and you drive it wide open never lift. Big lift and duration here. Other is flatter tighter turns lift, set car, feed throttle,floor on exit. Smaller cam to use torque off the corner. Both have about same hp. That's why we need to know more about what you want to run.
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Old 10-13-2002, 04:11 PM
Doug Wilson Doug Wilson is offline
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Thanks, again. He will be running 1/4 mile drag races. Who does your porting for you?? We can pick any compression ratio, cause it will only be burning race gas, and will never see the street. Since he just paid about $1100 for the Ed. heads, it's unlikely that he will want to pitch them. I suspect new valves, springs, keepers, retainers and porting are in store for them.

You don't think the Ed. heads can support 500 horsepower, no matter what??
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Old 10-13-2002, 11:09 PM
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Since you have to use them ed heads port the crap out of them. They are just good light street heads. Seems all small blocks need work on the exhaust side so look towards it first.
The air gap should out flow the heads.
I'd try for a good 11.5 or 12:1 comp. Remember you give up one point cr using aluminum heads 'cause of the faster heat transfer. In other words running 12:1 aluminum would be 13:1 with cast heads.
A friend of mine ran a car with 340 auto 4500 stall and 4.88:1 gears for mid sevens in the 1/8 with 28 " x 10" slicks. So that's an idea that you can adjust from. I did not see if you said you tubbed it. So I bet 28 x 8 will be all you can get under there. I'll have to think further on a cam. I'm still researching hyd. for my asphault car I'm starting to build.
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Old 10-14-2002, 01:13 AM
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Hey Doug...I'm back...

500 ponies...piece of cake.... but here's a few things for you and Dave to consider:

You'll need the following...just for starters:

Dana 60 rear end or a well built 8.75...Dana's easier and tougher.

Dynamic convertor

Send the heads to Indy and have them CnC port them.

Race Demon and a full fuel system...cell to carb

Wilson can do the manifold work, have Indy send the heads to them along with the intake and they'll find another 50-75 HP for ya.

A good sawzall and lots of blades...wieght/HP=low ET

Big ass Hides

Magnum Force's tubular front clip

New wheels all around

Now if I was involved in the project I'd ask a totally different question of Dave...

"How Fast Do You Want To Go?"

This is way more important than 500 HP, 500 ponies that you can't hook or dial consistantly and have to rebuild 3 times a year isn't worth a dam...I whoop up 500 HP guy's all the time and you've watched me.

Here's the basic rules for our track (Daves also I presume)

Pro class...7.50 to 13.99
No Electronic timers or launch devices
13.99 and quicker..helmut required
11.99 and quicker- roll bar and several other divices.
9.99 and quicker....better get out the BIG checkbook.

I would try and coach Dave into a low to mid 11's car, this will put him into a good group in the Pro class and the car will be dialable and consistant...it's no fun if you go out 1st round every week...been there done that....

We know how to make a 66 Cuda fast...we know all the wrong things to do and the right things...the rest is up to the driver.
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Old 10-14-2002, 05:52 PM
Doug Wilson Doug Wilson is offline
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The front end is in the works. Tubbing, also. The 500 HP is Dave's objective. Good roll cage is also in the plan. I'm mostly looking for engine tips on this - aluminum main caps or not, steel crank or not, long rods/short rods.... need to redesign the engine and then build it. I think we will also do the dynamic converter and a 727 - it's gonna be a whole new car (again!!).
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  #11  
Old 10-14-2002, 05:59 PM
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We'll talk more at the Beer and Beef Smoke Out on Nov 1st weekend.....you are coming right?
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  #12  
Old 10-14-2002, 06:10 PM
Doug Wilson Doug Wilson is offline
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Yep. Got a place for me - and maybe Deanna, if kids are welcome - to sleep??
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Old 10-14-2002, 06:29 PM
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Always make a spot for you Doug....I don't think this is the right type of event for kids....Holley's worried about me taking the Red Dog ....LOL
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Old 10-14-2002, 10:06 PM
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Hey Doug,
In the last Mopar Muscle mag. They have a 340 with stock bottom, ported smog heads w/202s, a mechanical cam and Demon making 477 HP.

Did you see it?
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Old 10-14-2002, 10:28 PM
Doug Wilson Doug Wilson is offline
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Actually, I did. Thought the change from the Air-Gap to the single plane was pretty strange. Is EVERYBODY on Edelbrock's payroll????

Anybody know anything about converting an eight bolt truck Dana 60 to use under the race car?? This would be from my '73 3/4 ton Power Wagon. Or maybe I should sell it to someone that wants one for a truck, and then buy one of the shortened ones. Any thoughts?
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  #16  
Old 10-15-2002, 03:01 AM
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Doug...call Dutchman here in Portland that's their specialty.

They will give you a quote on the phone, if you go that way bring the rear with you to the Grove and I'll drop it off at the Dutchman for you.
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Old 10-15-2002, 03:34 PM
Doug Wilson Doug Wilson is offline
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Don - Dutchman doesn't answer their phone, mostly... and the one time somebody did answer it, he was a total moron.

Got anybody I should ask for if I do decide to try them again??
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