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  #1  
Old 10-16-2002, 07:31 PM
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5th_Ave_Sleeper 5th_Ave_Sleeper is offline
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Cry Trashed my 360

Dont you hate it when you spend thousands of dollars on a project only to have the damn timing set fail! to beat it all, I bought what I thought was a good named double row timing set.
I havent tore the engine apart yet, but I am sure I bent every intake valve in it.
Its funny though. when I got the car home (had to tow it 15miles) I discovered it had no spark. so after some troubleshooting, I discoverd the coil was bad. I replaced the coil and it fired right up. but. The engine was rattleing like crazy, as if the rockers were not oiling. I popped of the iol fill cap and there was plenty. so my only conclusion is that it somehow jumped time and the valves are hitting the pistons. whenit broke down out on the road it just quit running like it lost fuel supply or spark in which case it did.
Question #1 So how did the coil failing cause it to jump time or vise-versa.
Question #2 Also because I am running hydralic lifters, do you think my valves might have survived?
5th
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Old 10-16-2002, 07:39 PM
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How tight were the piston to valve clearances? You may have floated the valves and done damage that way. I broke a u joint in my duster once and it hit about 7700 rpm before I could get off it. I bent a whack of pushrods, but everything else was fine. I was glad I had the weak stocker pushrods in it that time. I would check them first, and go from there. I have had some pretty loose double roller chains that have never jumped, so I am doubting that to be the cause.
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Old 10-16-2002, 10:21 PM
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5th_Ave_Sleeper 5th_Ave_Sleeper is offline
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hmm... a glimmer of hope

the piston to valve clearence is (was) .200" I will pull the intake this weekend. thanks for the cheer up aj!
5th
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Old 10-17-2002, 01:16 AM
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I think the weak link would be the pushrods.
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  #5  
Old 10-17-2002, 01:58 AM
bwlizard bwlizard is offline
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Wink Question Number One

The coil failing would have nothing to do with the Timing gear and visa versa.
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  #6  
Old 10-17-2002, 09:08 AM
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Thumbs up yeah

yeah I figured the coil thing was unrelated. Thought I would throw it out there anyway.
Funny how the valve train and the coil failed at the same time huh. A lesser mechanic would be dumbfounded
5th
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Old 10-17-2002, 12:47 PM
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I'm going to subscribe here without comment at this time.....I will wait until the engine gets tore down and we see exactly what happened.

If infact the timing chain was at fault I'll write a tech article here on how identify a "True" roller chain and what you really get for $89.00.
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Old 10-17-2002, 01:29 PM
Doug Wilson Doug Wilson is offline
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Do I detect a possible agenda, here??...... no.... never from Don.
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Old 10-17-2002, 02:02 PM
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I think I have to subscribe too, to hear the upcoming valuable tech info from cuda!
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Old 10-17-2002, 11:45 PM
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:shock: preliminary autopsy complete

So what exactly makes the bottom of lifters blow out?
-Engine did not jump time, timing set is good and tight. Still scared me enough to consider a Pete Jackson gear drive.
-With valve covers off, I can smoosh all the lifters with one finger.(except for the ones that were up on a lobe)
-Didnt find any bent push rods.
-I found that the rockers are very sloppy on the shafts. How much tolerance should be there?
-I am considering changing over to a solid lift setup. I will get adjustable rockers before I even try buying a cam(and the right pushrods, 1972roadrunner )hehe
So I would like a cam recomendation(there should be a forum for this topic alone) specs as follows
-360 .060 over
-10.5:1 hypertec Kieth Black pistons.
-heads have 2.20/1.60 valves
-heads are fully ported and polished no flow #'s sorry
-chambers polished (cuda66273 trick)
-wiend action plus dual plane intake gasket matched to heads.
-dont kill me 750-800 cfm Qjet from 500ci caddy
-MPP 2700 rpm stall converter
-727 no shift kit as of yet
-3.55:1 8.25" rear end w/ 275-60 r15
-car wieghs @ 3800lbs
- oh the cam in it now is a hyd 292* @ .050", .508" lift with stock 1.45:1 stamped steel rockers

Cuda, hook me up with one of those racer brown cams!
Hould I pull the heads? if so I want a thick head gasket, I have a bit too much compression.
Thanks for the help all. yall are great help
5th
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  #11  
Old 10-18-2002, 12:04 AM
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Fel-Pro makes a .054 gasket. Thick enuff? PT-1008 I think.
If not, there are copper gaskets out there that get real thick.

I think that caddy carb is a good trick. Saved on money cause there in the yards, lots of cfm to boot.
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  #12  
Old 10-18-2002, 12:52 AM
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Whoa..your talking way too fast...lemme study this for a minute...

292 @ 50??are you sure?

Forget the gear drive..save your money..no motor that the Cuda has ever built has a Pete Junkson queer gear in it.....

If you think you need a better timing set get a Rollmaster..billet gears and a real, true, double roller chain...not to be confused with a true roller, chain (*note location of comma's)
More trickery from the clever and ohhh so deceptive marketing department.

2.20 intake valves ...hummm interesting, bigger than a Hemi....or maybe you were talking so fast I misunderstood.

Let's let Jim select the cam he's the cam expert.

For your application I'd recommend the Comp iron roller tip adjustable rocker arms at 1.5:1.

You don't have enough gear and convertor to run a huge duration or lift, we need to move your power band down, about 2500 to 6000RPM.

That carb will work I guess, but of course I have to reccommend a 650 Speed Demon Vac secondarys with duration @50 of no more than 240. Team it up with the M4268 Carter mechanical pump, a HPG1 filter system and 3/8" lines and your good to go.

Lets curve that distributor to about 16 initial and 34 total all in by 2500 and you'll have a rocket.

But now we need to look at what happened and why?

I suspect that the lifters fell apart and probably ate the cam up...so it's time to yank the heads...motor, cank and everything else and have it boiled out and re-assembled or all the metal in it will eat up your motor and probably already has..See last post from your buddy 72 RR.

Or...yank it out, put it on a pallet and ship it to us and we'll clean it up dial the compression in, air flow the heads/manifold and wet flow the carb....throw it on the Dyno, break in the cam, tune it and return it to you ready to add fuel and turn the key

Who's cam and lifters are they? or should I say were they?

Another fine example of Eaton engineering....

QUOTE:
"If in fact the timing chain was at fault"
....I knew what was wrong as soon as I read the post but I wanted you to look and see for yourself....I was shot once when I was a young Lad and I didn't want to give you probable cause to put another cap in my a$$....LOL

So here's another story of lifter failure, at the risk of redundancy but to protect others from making the wrong decisions I'm going to add this text from a previopus post of mine...sorry I can't show it as a link as I have no idea where the post is or what the title of it was.

Reprint:
...."My speed shop won't sell me lifters without a cam"....there may be some underlying reason for this but the economic reasoning is *Supply Vs. Demand*...a little history here, there "were" two main manufacturers of lifters in the USA, Johnson and Eaton. Johnson recently (Last year I believe) ran into a labor dispute of some sort and closed their plant forever. Unfortunately for us they were the ones who built the good ball type lifter used in pretty much all performance applications and by all the leading cam grinders.

That leaves us with Eaton and their wafer type lifters, which are so-so at best, especially for a performance application. Hurray we're saved 'cause along comes Mr. Yow Chuck Yuk and he starts building lifters in China and through his marketing manager Mr. Sam Ting they flood a desperate market with Chinese lifters...yup they look just like the real thing except all the cam company's start having failures due to lifters eating lobes off cam shafts and lifters just falling apart (ask Doug Wilson) so the Cam companies decided that they have to go back to Eaton at least they work better than the Chow Yuk variety...but, there's always a but to these stories....Eaton can't keep up to the demand so there's a shortage...simple economics, make them buy the whole kit or nothing. To put a little more icing on the cake, the Eaton lifters arn't much better than the Chow Yuk variety, same critical failures reported...end reprint.

So there you go, I'd like to see what those lifters look like, can you take a picture of the bottom of the lifters for me...I'd like to use them in that book i'm writing...post them to this board so we can all see....
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