Radiators

[BakedMopar]

I want to get a new radiator for my 67 Bevedere II with a 383. The radiator in there now is a 22"w, two row core. I was told that the rad in there now is too small, so I was looking to put an aluminum rad in but can't decide what model and brand. Be-cool has many different ones. I e-mailed Griffin and they quote me $700 for a aluminum replacement and over $1,000 for the HP series. Whats your opinion and how much modification is needed? Are they worth the money?

[gsmopar]

If you don't mind making your own mounts Summit has 2 row aluminium radiators for $169.

Greg

[dkn1997]

I do not know if it is the same one, but I originally ordered a be cool universal two row aluminum from summit.

what a joke! looked like it could not cool a lawnmower! and no provisions for automatic tranny cooler lines. As i said, might not be the same thing as posted above. I ended up going with the be cool direct fit and it was @500.00. It cost almost 300 to get my original 22" small block job recored to a 4 core high efficiency and that did not cool the car very well.

Also, the be cool is not truly a direct fit. It is close, but when I replaced my 22" rad with it, I had to drill two holes. It would have fit with thier brackets, but they moved the rad @ 1" closer to the engine and I was having clearance problems to begin with. food for thought. also, that unit is a cross flow, not a downflow like your original, so some "engineering" will have to be done with tranny cooler lines if you are running an auto.

I have also heard of a company called fluidyne that makes aluminum radiators.

bear in mind that any mods to get a radiator to fit are not that hard, go for it.

[charger_dan]

I'm running a Howe 31"x17" universal-fit radiator in my 68 Charger.
It's all aluminum, with two rows of big 1" tubes.

PROS:
Does a good job cooling, esp. with good fans and shroud
Lightweight
Large 1" tubes (cores) resist clogging, and are more efficient at thermal transfer than smaller copper/brass tubes

CONS:
Cooling fins are VERY fragile, so you've got to be gentle when cleaning
Custom mounting is necessary, but really pretty easy to do
Stock hoses didn't fit (in my case), so I spent some time at parts house looking for hoses with correct bends - I found hoses that fit perfect
Universal model doesn't have provisions for auto tranny cooler lines (I just run a big B&M external cooler)

I previously ran a U.S. Radiator "Desert Cooler" rad. It was copper/brass construction, with 4 rows of cores. Cost: $330.00. Didn't do the job. The Charger still ran hot. Howe radiator cost: $199.00 from Summit. All in all, I'm real happy with the aluminum, and I'll never go back to copper/brass.
Good luck

[Eric Strong]

I have had a few rads recored. When you take it to the rad shop (call first, for price) tell them you want a three row core. No cutting, no brackets, looks stock, and saves a bundle!

Quick Claims Adjuster!!!

[23T]

Eric has the right idea if you have a O track in your area find out where the roundy rounders get their rad work done and get yours re-cored there they will know how much flow etc,etc you need to run cool

[ehostler]

I agree. Keep the current radiator and have it recored to a 3 or 4 row. It'll cost close to the same as an aftermarket radiator, however it will look stock.

[BakedMopar]

I have already talked to my dads friend who owns a machine shop and they specialize in rads too. He said that even if he puts a three row core with my current setup I will be cutting it close and with the motor thats being built I still may be running too hot ( the tanks are too small for a four row core). He said that the 22" core dosn't have enough capacity. I don't care about the stock apearence and would rather go with aluminium.

Have anyone tried griffin rads? No one here runs mopar at the dirt track and less than a half dozen of us runs mopar on the strip.

Thanks for all the replies..
George

[6t5mopar]

Charger_Dan,

Do you have the part numbers off the hoses you found to fit?

If so, May we have them?

Thanks

[Jim Cox]

Originally posted by ehostler
I agree. Keep the current radiator and have it recored to a 3 or 4 row. It'll cost close to the same as an aftermarket radiator, however it will look stock.

if the 4 row wont fit go with the 3 row rember all new engines will run a little hot. the engine needs the the thermostst to cool properly! it holds the coolant there so it can be cooled before returning to the engine. godan sells complete radiators and cores for most every thing

[72Challenger]

Your real problem is not aluminum vs. brass or even 2 core vs. 3 core. It is the 22" width. Do whatever it takes to make a 26" fit in there and you'll be happy. Of course a 3 core will help as well. A 4 core is not much better, as by the time the airflow goes past the first 3 tubes, it's already pretty hot. That means it doesn't do much good to have the 4th core. What does help is the extra fluid capacity. I've spent a lot of money on a lot of different combinations to learn this lesson!

[charger_dan]

Originally posted by 6t5mopar
Do you have the part numbers off the hoses you found to fit?

6T5,
Hoses are from Carquest:
Upper hose is #20704
Lower is #21120

Attached is a pic of installation with alum. rad. in my 440 Charger. This is my first attachment, so bear with me if I muff it up...

[dkn1997]

I agree on the core support opening being important. But that might only matter if you are going with a downflow rad. I did not want to cut the car up to fit a stock 26" downflow rad. But, I can tell you that my experience w/ the be cool is that the opening did not matter.

the direct fit that they sell for A,B,E,M,F, and J bodies is the same and even though it is 26" wide, since it is a crossflow, at least 2" per side is for the tanks. So, the actual area that has fins in it is only 22" the fins on mine fit in my stock 22" opening perfect.

Although I only know this for sure on the Be Cool that I bought, I suspect that any crossflow rad would be the same. If you go the aluminum route, make sure you ask the manufacturer how they come up with their width and height measurements.

If you do not mind cutting the core opening, you might want to try to score a stock 26" job and see how that goes.

[23T]

Let us not forget no matter how much it holds if you are not moving enough cfm through the rad they will all over heat. Make sure you fan is pulling the air through the rad not sucking air around the sides of the fan. May need a shroud to pull straight through, elec. / larger visc. to pull more cfm. Right therostat choice. no stat no cooling try a 160 or 180

[BakedMopar]

I decided I will go with the one from be cool but what about an electric fan. What ones are good and what ones are bad and why? Also what size? Thanks for a ll the help so far. I will be using it as a pusher and still use the mechanical fan(mopar visc.)

George

[gsmopar]

I just got my "Ford" Aluminum 2 row with 1" tubing. It totally fits in the factory location on my '69 Charger. I'll have to fabricate some mounts, but so what! It only costs $169 I have enough left over for some fans!

Later,

Greg

[dkn1997]

I run a 2100 cfm proform as my pusher and a fixed flex fan with a shroud as my puller.

Proform seems like a pretty common name, I got it at a local speed shop and have seen them elsewhere. no problems with it.

NO MATTER WHAT ELECTRIC FAN YOU RUN, YOU MUST USE A RELAY. THESE THINGS DRAW A LOT AND IF YOU HAVE ONE OF OUR STOCK "CHARGING" SYSTEMS, IT IS A MUST.

I run a circuit breaker in addition to the relay. That shroud is real important too.

Although I did not use them, be cool sells mounts for electric fans that clamp to top and bottom, no need to push those nylon straps through the core. I would use them if I had it to do over again. Also, don't forget a shroud for the puller, it makes a real world difference!

[charger_dan]

Originally posted by BakedMopar
What about an electric fan. What ones are good and what ones are bad and why? Also what size?

Baked,
Sorry about the length here, bear with me:

I did a fair bit of research about electric fans before I bought my last pair. Spoke with a tech guy at SPAL, as well as the guys at Vintage Air (good fellas), and here's what I did/learned:

- For your average hot street/strip 440 that sees traffic, cruising, hot ambient temps, etc., you're going to want a minimum of 3,400-3,500 CFM worth of airflow through that radiator.

- If you're tending to run hot right now, run as much fan as possible. Like cubic inches, or a good scotch, there's no such thing as too much.

- If your primary cooling fan is going to be electrical, it should definitely be a puller - they're way more efficient. Obviously, this requires some rethinking when using an engine-driven fan.

- Uni-directional fans (push or pull) typically don't work as well as fans with blades specifically designed to do one or the other.

- With electric fans, as with everything else, you get what you pay for. Cheap parts store fans may cool your car if it's not a hot runner, but I've run cheap fans, and found them to be incapable of good, reliable cooling.

- After researching different brands, I ordered a set of SPAL high-performance fans. 13 inch diameter. Total combined airflow: 3,420 CFM. They're Italian designed and built, with OEM-type engineering and reliability, and about $175 each. Nope, not cheap. But worth every penny. There may be other brands out there that are comparable.

- dkn1997 is right on - you've got to run a relay. One per fan. Painless wiring makes a nice kit. Since system reliability is critical for my cooling system (e.g.: no back-up mechanical fan), I went with a single all-metal Prestolite starter solenoid (old Ferd style, 120A) in place of the smaller plastic relays typicallly used for this stuff. It'll still be around long after I'm gone. No worries.

- I control the fans with a Painless Wiring thermostatic switch, which controls the Ferd solenoid. Fans on at 185, off at 170. Works like a charm, and I've got a cut-in switch under the dash for manual control if I want.

- I'm a big fan of over-engineering certain systems on my car. Treating the cooling system this way has given me peace-of-mind I didn't used to have when cruising, in the staging lanes, or during real hot days (100 degrees in Oregon).

Of course, there are other ways to do this stuff, just thought I'd share with you all what I've learned (the hard $$ way) so maybe you won't make the same mistakes.

Best of luck!

[BakedMopar]

Thanks Man does SPAL have a website? If not who carries them? What is the part # of yours?

Thanks George

[charger_dan]

George, here's some answers to your questions, in order:

http://www.spal-usa.com

I got my fans from
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/
Looks like they're around $150 each right now.

www.vintageair.com
also has them. Summit may as well, though they tend to sell the cheap parts-store type fans.

P/N of my fans: 30100847
(13" dia., curved blade, high perf., 1,710 CFM each)

[23T]

Elec fans are like cams, bunches out there some claim the can be used as pullers or pushers just turning the unit or fan around. The only thing I will tell, if you want a pusher get a elec that is made as a pusher only. Now they have single fan and double fan units. You will just have to search to find a unit that will 1) fit, 2) push the CFM you need.

I have never run this type combo, hope the two fans will work together and not set up some type unbalanced harmonic flow you might ask the elec fan Co. before you plunk down your$$$

[23T]

Sorry about the last post my computer did not show the ones after the 1" tubes rad post

[dkn1997]

George,

that be cool rad is not huge, you might have a tough time finding dual electric fans that physically fit in.

the upside is that they do make singles that will move air in the 3000 cfm range.

If your car is anything like mine, watch your clearance from rad to water pump pulley snout, measure first and double check measurements of any fan before you buy

[BakedMopar]

Thanks guys for all of the replies. I just ordered the 62172 and its a bottom mount type . I didn't order fans yet but after i instal the radiator I will take measurments and get some Spals.

Mahalo,
George

[Slant Cecil]

I,ve been lucky with overheating problems here in FL., have always been able to trouble shoot the problem. I,ve had the typical like thermostats, radiators and lower hose collasping and the non-typical like retarded timing and lean carbs. When everything is right my '70 440-6 SuperBee, it runs cool with the original 22" radiator. At one time I owned a '70 Sport Fury GT that came with a 440-6 and a 22" radiator. I thought I'd have cooling problems but never did the short time I had the car. I,ve seen people with slant six A-bodies and 22" radiators wanting more cores or width because of not locating the source of their overheating.

Cecil