Crate Engines

[bone120]

Which setup would be more practical, a 10:1 shortblock from MP with Edle heads, rpm intake, 750 carb or a new Magnum 380. It will go into a 72 Dart with 8 3/4 3:55 gears, 904 trans with Cheetah valve body and 3000 stall. The car is for the weekends.

[timty2]

How about a 3rd option to consider:

http://www.hughesengines.com/www/hug...hort_block.asp

AND they have a real nice deal going on for cam/EB aluminum heads/intake combo on the main page!

[Doug Wilson]

A suggestion for you... before you buy ANY crate engine, do a search on this forum for "crate motors" and you will find that there are a lot of factors to consider. Mostly, you at least have to tear the engine down and check all the components and all the measurements to assure yourself that you got what you paid for.

There are many stories of mismatched pistons, funny cam and lifter sets, mains not torqued, bores different one side to the other - stuff like that.

[riverside]

Doug, Doe's also apply to Hugh's ??

[Doug Wilson]

I think, in general, that the specialty MOPAR aftermarket guys are probably more reliable than Mother - but if you're going to spend a lot of money, doesn't it make sense to pull it apart before you install it - just to make sure?

Frankly, I'd rather have a local, reputable engine builder put it together from components I selected, than to mail order it with whatever stuff the crate engine builder decided I ought to have.

Doing it locally would probably also save a significant amount of money, too. Or... give you better stuff at the same price.

In addition, local machine shops will often let you watch them do the assembly, and that helps you learn stuff. It is really worth taking a couple days off work to watch your engine get built. I've done it, and it is really fascinating - also makes you closer to your car in a spiritual sense.

It also puts you there when minor decisions are made.

Hughes is likely the best of the crate engine manufacturers.

[rumblefish360]

timty2;

Have you even priced Hughes create engine?
Mother MoPar has a cheap short block. I did that deal. Not good.

Short Block.....................1200 Then you need..
Oil pan ............................174..
pick up...............................44
oil pump.............................41
Oil pan gasket....................10
Edel. heads....................1249. Then you need...
Rockers .............................80, HYD. arms, MoPar
and shaft...........................????
Pushrods..........................70
Intake...............................219....M-1 single
Air claener assmb.............62...MoPar
Distrib.and igniton box.....189...MoPar
and wires...........................66...MSD's 8.5 (Jegs)
Timing chain cover.......... ?????
water pump.........................50..MoPar
Valve covers......(El-cheap-o's)...20
All equals $3474.
This is not everything you need. If you do not have an engine in which to raid parts from, the cost will rocket with pulleys, gaskets and other misc. things.

Jegs has the 380 ceate engine for 3530 which includes much of what I have allready listed.

3530
-3474
......56

DO YOUR HOMEWORK BEFORE YOU JUMP!!!!!!

[Doug Wilson]

Rumble... I don't understand - didn't you buy the MOPAR short block? You don't include a cam, lifters and a timing set in your costs.

Do you suggest that it is better to buy a crate engine than to build your own??

Help me out, here, please??

[rumblefish360]

Yea, sure Doug.

I did in fact purchase the short block from Mom.
I allready had the other 360 on the side. I did not included eveyting needed. To much to list. But, your right, liffters. Theres another expense added.
I had everything except a new oil pump and lifters. For me, it was cheap. If you do not have the "Parts" from a donor engine, the create is better.

Do you suggest that it is better to buy a crate engine than to build your own??

Hummmmmm, depends on how lazy you are.

I like building them myself. Or as much as I can seeing how I do not have a machine to bore out a block and such.
Maching costs vary. The create engine, if done right from the maker/seller, is a hard thing to beat.

In my last post, I really didn't build anything. I just purchased parts to put together. Most are assm. for me. Short block, heads and the rest is like connect the dots and twist the bolts.

The engine combo he's looking at, my last, was a very good street performer. Ashame I never got to the track before it disintagerated.
Ahhhhhhh, theres allways next year.

[rumblefish360]

PS;

The short block cam w/ the 292-.509 cam, no liffters.

[bone120]

I have the heads, intake, carb etc from my old 360 that I threw a rod from. I had that shortblock built by a good machine shop in southern CA. I'm leaning towards the 10:1 shortblock from MP. But, I was looking for a little reassurance from someone who has already been down this road.

Hey Rumblefish, what happened to your 360?

[Doug Wilson]

Rumble - I would consider "engine disintegration" as.... a definite downside?

[mtrv8n]

i love my crate 360/380, but you can now buy a nice edelbrock head/intake/carb set to top off a short block. I also hear that MP has improved quality control on the crates.
My first one blew oil, and it took me two weeks and red faced phone calls to get a replacement. The new one has started to leak a bit, after 5000 miles, but only a bit..mostly at the rear main seal.

It runs great, though, out of the box with 35 degrees total ignition advance , eddie 800cfm carb, carter fuel pump, and, oh, yeah, just added a 1/2 wood spacer under the carb, and HP manifolds from an AAR - through a stock 73 exhaust which has resonators as well as mufflers.

Pulls hard at 30mph in 4th gear, so I don't understand why we're told this is not a streetable motor..(runs all the vacuum power stuff with no problem as well)
If you're not a builder, or(like me,don't have a builder nearby) crate is the way to go. But you can get a crate from other sources than MP, and just as well outfitted.

[rumblefish360]

LOL, I would Doug.
bone120 , If you go the shortblock route, tear it down and inspect it.
Better to rebuild what you have. Then you know what you have.
The 10-1 short block I had, and many others here, had the drivers side pistons positive deck. Mine were .010 at the least. The passenger side was zero deck. Do you see a problem here?
I think the problem isn't MoPar rebuilding them, they didn't. A company in Al. did the (Extra crappy) work. Not MoPar.
From the been there done that camp, do your old block.

[5thAve]

They've got better quality control? Within the last week I heard about another dud. For every person who seems happy with their engine there's someone who's had problems. With odds like that I'd never even consider getting one.

[George G. Leverette]

I got less than 500 miles and 60 days on a MP short block before #8 cyclinder gernaded and left debris through out the engine including the heads and intake. Two large holes in the cyclinder walls and a bent crank. I am really considering never to buy another Mopar Performance part even with the cost +10% discount. Need to sleep on that decision and consider what they are doing with my warranty.

[rumblefish360]

Ditto

[Hammer 74]

I am happy with my 360/380. Almost hard 2000 miles without any problems. Last Sunday I made 5 runs with the best being a 13.03 @ 103. Not bad for a 3550 lb car on DOT tires. The only mod's are roller rockers and EFI. I think that the Crate motors are relieable compared to the short blocks. The short blocks have over/under parts where the Crate's are standards. Less chance of a problem with standard parts in assembling. Many of the members of this board think that they are the same; they are not. Has anyone had a problem with a Crate motor? I have not heard of many and I search for the issue everywhere i go. JMO.

[6 packin]

I sure dont like the ideal of paying big $$$ for a assembled engine them tearing it down for inspection! Was not the purpose of a crate engine? Too elimanate the need for engine assembly? I hate to hear that kinda stuff from mother Mopar. I like seeing whats going on in my engines. Then you will know whats inside of your engine. I have known people to buy many reman's from Autozone and Advance with no failures. Whats mopar doing these days? Besides having there fingers in there crack~~~~..............

[George G. Leverette]

Gotta give the parts manager at H. W. Hunter Dodge a thumbs up for the rapid warranty replacement. The 360 replacement is ready for delivery tomorrow, as soon as I do the paper work. Now for some eccy heads to go with the RPM and 750 holley already on hand.

[Doug Wilson]

George - are you going to check the new one before you install it?