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  #1  
Old 11-08-2002, 04:59 AM
70Challenger R/T S.E. 383 70Challenger R/T S.E. 383 is offline
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Help MagnumForce Coil-Over Kit-Anybody??

Hi all, I haven't posted in a while. But I'm currently restoring a 70 Challenger and I will be driving it alot up completion, so I want it to be a good drivers car, like handling well, good breaking and all that. I added up the prices for some big torsion bars, a 1 1/8 sway bar, poly bushings, and koni adjustable shocks and it was all over $1000. I noticed the Coil-Over kit was only $599. Would it give me just as good of handling? Would I be able to eliminate the sway bar and still have minimal body roll? I guess I'm just wondering how good of handling can be had with just the Coil-Overs compared to the beefed up stock suspension.
Thanks,
Blaise
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  #2  
Old 11-08-2002, 08:26 AM
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rumblefish360 rumblefish360 is offline
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I don't know if the kit removes the sway bar. Did you ask Magnum Force about this?
If they did there homework on the matter, agood set up of the coil over can do quite well. You should ask them about details.
I really don't see a reason why it shouldn't handle well.
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  #3  
Old 11-08-2002, 01:04 PM
340duster1 340duster1 is offline
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The concern I have with the magnum force coil over kit is that the front end of the car be supported by the original upper shock mount. I have no experience with the kit whatsoever, other than reading the magazine articles on it. It might be okay for normal or light use but any hard thrashing I would worry about the inner fenders etc. note this is only my opinion. Maybe someone who has installed the kit can provide better info.
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  #4  
Old 11-08-2002, 01:38 PM
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gsmopar gsmopar is offline
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I was wondering the same thing. I like the kit, but it seems like the inner fenders would not be strong enough to support the car. If any of you attempt this set up, please post and let us know what you think.

Later,

Greg
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  #5  
Old 11-08-2002, 01:58 PM
Loadrunner Loadrunner is offline
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In my humble opinion...If you will be driving this car on the street you are way ahead staying with the beefed up stock suspension. Chrysler engineers scienced this suspension out very well and I would be amazed if the Magnum Force suspension could stand up to the abuse the stock suspension can.

Consider this, the original design supports the weight of the car plus any impact loads (potholes etc.) on structural unit-body members. The Magnum Force kit supports the car by the shock mounts which are only designed to carry the force of damping the suspension components for that wheel. Remember, the shock does not support any weight (barring air-shocks, coil-overs) and the shock mount was probably designed for a fraction of the load of the torsion bar cross member. I'm sure the aftermarket suspension was not meant for street duty without reinforcing the shock mounts.

Beyond this, suppose some brain donar pulls out in front of you at the local burger joint and you t-bone him and injuries result. The claims adjuster would take one look at your suspension and start asking questions.
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  #6  
Old 11-08-2002, 02:49 PM
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71383bee 71383bee is offline
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I agree with loadrunner. I don't think that the inner fender well shock supports can handle the full load of the car. Loadrunner is correct about the stock system. The torsion bar setup is an excelent system and has proven itself for years.

I am running stock 383 bars and stock front sway with PST polygraphite bushings, KYB, shocks and a firm feel stage 2 steering gearbox and i love the way my bee handles. It digs in the corners and steers like a brand new car. The poly kit with shocks runs around $600 from PST. A firm feel unit is $275 I think?

I have heard good things about the Magnum force Upper control arms though. They give you some more camber options and they come with poly graphite installed bushings. They are a bolt on deal to.
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  #7  
Old 11-09-2002, 09:16 PM
Rug_Trucker Rug_Trucker is offline
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You are gonna screw up a good car doing the coil over. That is for going straight ahead.
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  #8  
Old 11-09-2002, 09:35 PM
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RALPH RALPH is offline
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Default coil overs??

i agree to stay with the beefed up factory setup. i wanted to say i have an e-body and i tried the koni$$$ shocks and didn't like them. they're hydrallic not gas charged, and driving them around the streets of ny they rode real hard, even after playing with the adjustments. as a matter of fact the lower bushing in the front shock dissintergrated and they said that wasn't covered under the warranty only if it leaked or wore out. now i have kyb's and love-em.
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  #9  
Old 11-10-2002, 01:48 AM
72Challenger 72Challenger is offline
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There's another consideration here no one's mentioned yet. When trying to achieve maximum handling, one very important factor is unsprung weight. The lower, the better. An advantage of the torsion bar suspension is that the t-bar is all unspung weight, a coil-over has a portion (roughly 50%) as sprung weight. This affects the speed at which the wheel can react to road irregularities. For maximum handling, go with the t-bars!
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  #10  
Old 11-10-2002, 02:53 AM
Rug_Trucker Rug_Trucker is offline
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How is Tbars unsprung weight? The only thing that is unsprung is the wheels and tires. 70 Chally Rt SE, I can tell you are young and inexperienced. You can only believe half the crap you read in the magazines.
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  #11  
Old 11-10-2002, 12:59 PM
72Challenger 72Challenger is offline
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How are t-bars unsprung weight? Simply put, unsprung weight is any portion of the vehicles weight that is not supported by the suspension. It includes not only the wheels and tires, but also the wheel bearing, spindles, brake rotors, pads and calipers, any and all mounting brackets and bolts, and also a percentage of the weight of the strut rods, control arms and the shocks. It also includes the sway bar end links, and a small percentage of the sway bar itself.

If you are still having trouble understanding this, visualize the car on a hoist, and move the wheel through its full travel. Any part that doesn't move at all is 100% sprung weight. Any part that moves directly with the wheel is 100% unsprung weight. Any part (such as shocks and control arms) which one end moves directly with the wheel and the other end remains attached to the unmoving vehicle, is sharing its weight between sprung and unsprung. For simplicity's sake this is usually expressed as 50% of the total weight of the component, but is actually almost always some other percentage.

The great part about Mopar engineering is that the t-bar pivots about the chassis mount of the lower control arm. Therefore it is 100% unsprung weight, unlike a coil spring design, where the weight is divided 50% between sprung and unsprung. Additionally, since the vehicle weight is supported by the t-bar and lower control arm, the upper control arm doesn't need to be as heavy as that of a coil spring vehicle. This gives our Mopars a (potential) handling advantage to a coil spring car.
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Old 11-10-2002, 02:37 PM
AndyF AndyF is offline
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I think you mean that the torsion bar is sprung weight while the coil over is 50% unsprung. Therefore, the torsion bar suspension has lower unsprung weight than the coil over design.

A coil over suspension is probably a better suspension when everything else is considered, but converting a Mopar to coil over is a lot of work. The MF kit isn't even a good start at doing the job properly. If you don't know what you're doing (if you're not a chassis builder) it is probably best to stay away from mods like this.
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  #13  
Old 11-10-2002, 08:13 PM
70Challenger R/T S.E. 383 70Challenger R/T S.E. 383 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rug_Trucker
How is Tbars unsprung weight? The only thing that is unsprung is the wheels and tires. 70 Chally Rt SE, I can tell you are young and inexperienced. You can only believe half the crap you read in the magazines.
Your post did nothing for me. Yes I'm young (18) and maybe inexperienced compared to most of you (1st resto), but don't be a jerk cause I asked a question about what looked like a good product that would achieve what I'm after. I'm just trying to learn and make my car better like all of us in the car hobby.

As for everyone else, thanks for your replies. They helped. I was also wondering about the strength of the shock towers. I thought some kind of shock tower brace could be fabricated, but I'll be putting a shaker hood on the car, so that won't work. I think I'll just stick with the beefed up stock set-up and just do it in stages.
Thanks,
Blaise
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  #14  
Old 11-10-2002, 09:26 PM
leon441 leon441 is offline
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Default Front suspension

Whether you do or don't run coilovers makes no difference in the need for a sway bar. And I don't beleive a stock shock support is good enough to hold the weight of your car. I have a Super Street 65 Barracuda with a tubular K-member and rack and coilovers. The only reason it works is because the upper shock mount is reinforced by the forward bars tied to the rollcage.

It really tickles me how you guys can argue about sprung and unsprung weight. Yes the guy got his words crossed but anyone with reasonable intelligence could see were he was going with this even though an alluminum coilover is very light the part that is bolted to the lower control arm is heavier than the stem but I really don't think you will ever see the difference.

I am not a big fan of magnum force typically because of the product versus the price. And for drag racing the geopmetry is not best. But, whatever you do don't let a friend buy from AJE, it really and truly is a peice of junk.
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  #15  
Old 11-11-2002, 02:34 AM
72Challenger 72Challenger is offline
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Andy F says:

"I think you mean that the torsion bar is sprung weight while the coil over is 50% unsprung"

And Rug_Trucker was right to question me. That's what happens when I try to post with a 101 degree fever and all full of medicinals! Don't worry, I'm feeling much better now.

Yes, I was wrong! I meant sprung weight for the t-bars. Thanks to leon441 for seeing what I was trying to say. And he's right that it's hard to tell the difference. On the street I doubt anyone could tell one way or the other. But if you're competing in events where turning corners is important, every bit helps.
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  #16  
Old 11-11-2002, 04:14 AM
George G. Leverette George G. Leverette is offline
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Kinda thought the Magnum force Coil Overs was for the go straight folk who wanted the room to install under chassis headers and big oil pans. Bracing the fender wells is a given beccause the regular shock towers have been known to break loose. The complete kit which would reduce total weight, unsprung weight, and improve weight distribution. Would each of the responders send me $100.00 in cash so I can purchase the kit and get back to the group on the pro's and con's.
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  #17  
Old 11-12-2002, 12:53 PM
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J-440 J-440 is offline
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I have also checked out Magnumforce's web site and it looks like they make an excellent front-end kit. I mean for 3500 bucks you get all that cool stuff as well as lighten the front end by 100 lbs. Go to their website and they have numerous cars with the coil-over setup, including one bitchin cloned Daytona. They also have a tricked out water pump setup with a front motor plate that bolts to the block and chassis. I'm seriously considering their setup in the future and will definitly keep you guys informed.


J-440
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