Flooding Holley

[dodge440]

Hi Guys, I put this to you guys last year, but I am still having problems with my carb flooding. It is a 1050 list 9375 on my 507 motor.
I find on hot days with stop start traffic light driving, it floods to the point of stalling. This is an intermittant problem, when I think I have it licked, it reappears. The only way I can drive is by turning the elec pump off till it starves, then on till it floods, and so on. After stopping for half hour, I may not have the problem again, or it may continue, depending on whether I want to be embarrassed!
After finding 1/4" of fuel on the primary butterflies, I figure it is primary only, so not a heat transfer problem. I tried lowering the float level, Changing the needle and seat, putting a new "o" ring on the needle and seat, even putting al-foil around the bowl.
Today I noticed fuel being drawn from the accelerator squirter on idle. Though I doubt this is the problem, how do I cure that as well? Is there a heavier needle to put under the squirter, or do I drop in a small ball bearing on top of the needle.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
The carb I had on before, an 830, I had no problems with at all.

[gsmopar]

Dodge440,

I have some questions for you because you seem like one of the only crazy bastards (other than me) that chooses to run a 4500 on the street.

First for your problem: Are you running a return line in your fuel system?

Now for my problem: Does your 1050 run a power valve on the primary side? If so, can you give me the numbers on your metering block. My car isn't running yet, but this will be my first experience with a 4500. I bought the carb used and during the rebuild I was suprised to see that it isn't equipped with PV's on either side. Just seems like it will load up a little on the street without them???

Thanks,

Greg

[mtrv8n]

Heh, you must have real warm weather all year round..I can't get started unless it's over 35degrees(farenheit), and that's WITH a choke!

[gsmopar]

I think our High today will be in the 70's. It will get cold at night sometimes...

Arizona Weather

[John Kunkel]

What is the measured fuel pressure at the carb inlet?
The needle and seat has a limit.

[Locomotion]

Holley charts show that the 9375 does not come with power valves.

Also, I'm not sure what the differences would be or how they would affect it's use on a single 4 barrel manifold, but Holley recommends that carb for use in 2x4 applications!

One theory would be that on a regular hi-rise intake (as opposed to a tunnel ram), that carb would be getting a stronger vacuum signal than it was calibrated for. That would want to suck gas out of the carb much easier, which could explain the flooding.
Myron

[gsmopar]

LOCO,

What about the 9377? I noticed that the 7320 description says PV protection circuits. Could I swap in those metering blocks? Currenty my metering blocks are 6723's.

Thanks,

Greg

[Locomotion]

gsmopar,

The 9377, -1, & -2 aren't shown to have power valves.
The -1 shows N/S for their metering blocks, so I don't know if that means "not serviced" or what.

7320, & -1 also show N/S
7320-2 is shown with a 6.5 primary power valve.
........but all 3 have the same jetting! (In the spec charts.)
There might be a misprint somewhere because the catalog only shows the 7320-1 and says "Power valve blowout protection" like you said. Also that it's for a 1x4 application. But no pic of a -2!

I couldn't find any listing of a 6723.

I never messed with Dominators, so I don't know what would work. Passages, air bleeds, etc. might be different between carbs and designed to work with particular metering blocks!

Holley has these charts in the back of their catalogs and on their web site. I just don't have the direct link to the web site handy.

[dodge440]

You mean there are other mad bastards around??
I am running this carb on a MP M1 manifold, 5 pounds pressure and no return line to the tank. I have had a lot of probs with running way too rich, I posted the question on here asking if I could make this thing streetable, but got no replies, which meant I HAD to make it streetable to prove I could do it.
Eventually we put the car on the dyno and found that it was designed for either idle or WOT, at 1500 rpm the CO levels were off the dial. The guys working on it opened up the air bleeds primary and seconday , as they were virtually non existant, drilled and put in jets for intermediate fuel, and also drilled the blanked off power valve orrifices in the primaries for a power valve. We got the CO levels down to around 6% or whatever the measurement is in. (??).
Our hot weather is probably cool compared to what you have over there, around 90degF on a mild day.......Too much sun and sand...

[gsmopar]

Ya, we're both mad but I'm going to make mine work too!!!

I'm running the same M1 intake I was thinking the opposite on the power valves. I though they'd run better on the street with them??? I got my carb for less than 1/2 price used so I'm going to get it to run!!!

I would try a return line. Electric pumps do funny things when you don't let them flow. Keep me posted, mine won't be driveable until next year.

Oh, we get in the 120 F in the summer time

Later,

Greg

[charger_dan]

Hello Dodge 440:

First (and most important) question:
Why in the h#ll are you running a Dominator on a street car?

If you're going to run a Dominator (or any Holley for that matter) on the street, in actual cruising and stop-and-go driving, you have got to run a power valve. Period. Without a PV, you will never get the carb's fuel curve tailored to an acceptable range for street drivability - it's impossible.

When you say the carb is "flooded", do you mean the motor's loading up with fuel and eventually dying? Or are you actually seeing raw fuel spilling out of the boosters when you inspect them?

Your fuel pressure is actually a little low (6-7psi is good), so I wouldn't suspect a fuel pressure problem (where pressurized fuel is overcoming your needle/seat assemblies).

I've seen dirt from the fuel supply hold open needles and create a massive flooding condition. What's your fuel filter arrangement?

What kind of fuel pressure regulator are you running?

A return line from carb back to tank is an excellent idea, but that's not your problem here.

From what you've said so far, my gut feeling tells me that you've got a couple of problems:

• Complete carb misapplication.
With no power valve, you've got the carb running too rich, resulting in an engine that only runs decent at higher RPMs, when the motor has a decent chance to actually burn all that fuel it's being forced to gulp.

• Heat.
The fuel spilling out of the accel. pump nozzles is usually an indication of excessive carb temperatures. Fuel in the carb flashes to vapor, pushing liquid fuel out boosters, nozzles, bleeds, etc., causing erratic operation.

What you've got now is a race carb that has a number of "modifications" done to it, and now it isn't much good for either a street or a race car. If you want to keep the carb and try to run it, consider shipping it to The Carb Shop in California, or some other similar Holley expert who can take what you've got and modify it to give you the correct fuel curve for your car and application.

Try not to run the motor until you fix this problem. Unburned fuel tends to wash down the oil film on cylinder walls (known as "fuel wash"), and your rings won't like it very much.

When it comes right down to it, I wouldn't spend any more time troubleshooting this beast until I either replaced the carb with one properly suited for your application, or I got the Dominator properly modified.
Best of luc

[gsmopar]

I'm going to get mine to work. These guys did too Dominator Thread

See you on the Street!

Later,

Greg

[cuda66273]

Why are you guy's so determined to try and make the wrong carb work?.

You may get it to kinda work and be able to live with it but it'll never be right for your application.

Those carbs are for one position only WOT with zero manifold vacuum.

Are these 4500 Holley's some sort of penis stimulant that I don't know about???.....I thought that's what they made Viagra for

Don

[dodge440]

Hey Don, give the viagra a miss, and get a 4500 instead, they are just like a woman...they love misbehaving, (and other stuff which I can't say here)!!
Just call it an old age thing, maybe alzheimers or sumfink silly..

Charger_dan , The 4500 is a big improvement performance wise than the 830 I had, so I stuck with it.I said in my last post that the guys working on this did put a PV in the primary metering block, and with the mods they did, the thing is quite streetable, no black smoke like I used to lay down. I run a shaker scoop on this, could this be trapping heat? As I said, the 830 I ran before never gave me problems with flooding at all. With this carb,it isn't loading up as such, I have fuel running from the booster venturies in the primaries, then open the butterfies and it drowns. I am using a holley regulator, maybe a problem on the primary feed side? If so, why only when there is heat around the motor?
If you can suggest a better carb, I am open for donations.. you may even be able to claim off tax, donations to a third world country can be deductable..
You wouldnt believe how much these things cost over here, roughly 3 times what you guys pay....

Hey gsmopar, hang in there !!

these little smilie faces are better than viagra too!!

[cuda66273]

Is there any reason why we couldn't ship you a Demon from here?

Sorry for being so grouchy...lack of sleep for 2 weeks is starting to catch up to me...I managed 6 good hours last night and I'm feeling better this morning....

What's your cam duration at 50 and compression ratio?

[ehostler]

One of the biggest killers for them boys down under is the customs/duties that are charged by the Aussy government. What many Aussies don't know is that there is a way around it. The customs/duties are only charged on new, unopened products. Now then, if you open the Demon box and modify it for his application and then ship it, it is no longer considered new. It has been rebuilt.

dodge440 - check it out with your postal authority. I know that I did this for an Aussie once. I bought a video capture card, opened the box, closed the box, packed it up and shipped it out as a used component. The Aussie that I shipped it to did not have to pay any customs/duty fees.

[gsmopar]

No, not a "penis stimulant." I got the carb for a real good price, and am going to give it a shot.

I had a similar conversation with a local speed shop when I attempted to run 2 holley's and a tunnel ram on the street. I got the "it's not streetable.... it won't work.... quicker with a single 4..." bla bla bla. It's a fricken carb! You work with them enough and they'll run (isn't that 1/2 the fun of owning an old car?). I picked up 2 tenths with the tunnel ram (over a Torquer II and Holley combo) and love driving it around town.

I'd love one of those new BG carbs, but for the price I'd go with Fuel Injection.

Later,

Greg

[cuda66273]

Price?????

Speed Demon-under 240* of Duration @50 $395.00
Mighty Demon-over 240* ....$495.00

...how much can you buy injection for?

Your right Greg...You can make almost anything run....I even got a tunnel ram to run with 2- 600 eddys on a stock 350 Camaro! It ran about 1 second slower than with the single 600 but it ran fairly decent.

I also have some models available in our rebuilt line...they work even better when I get done with them on the flow bench :-)) and cost even less....

Aussie Guy's..I checked with a customs broker here and he confirmed that if it's a used part or if it was "your part" that we were returning to you after a "Rebuild" there should be no duty or taxes due on it....we have some rebuilts in stock.

Don

[gsmopar]

Ebay $300. If it doesn't work for me I'm sure I can always sell it for the same amount. King demons start at $900 correct?

[ehostler]

ebay - $300, Considering what the new cost is, that tells me that the carb is crap and has been modified to the point where a rebuild kit and jetting won't make it work.

Sorry, I'd rather get the correct carb that has been dial into my engine for not much more.

As far as EFI goes, a quality system starts at $2,300.

[cuda66273]

I'm with Ed......

Greg...whats the duration on your cam @50 and compression ratio..are you sure you need a King Demon?..that's a lot of carb.

Don

[gsmopar]

The Seller on Ebay said he couldn't get the carb to run on his BBC. When I tore it a part the secondary float was screwed allll the way down. The bowl was so dry it had dust in it. There is NO mods on the carb wich is very Rare for a holley. I've got it jetted back to what it came with from Holley. I plan on changing the primary metering block if I it doesn't run "as/is" so if I need to re-sell the carb it will still be "Stock" and someone will be getting a good deal.

I agree that a King Demon is an overkill for the street, but it's been mentioned before that we all have different opinions of "Street." The local cruise spot is 2 miles from my house. The race track is 10. The car will be lucky to see 2,000 miles a year. Therefore, my impression of a street car is: "Mufflers and Plates."

If this carb doesn't work out I'll be hitting you up Cuda!

[dodge440]

Don, the cam I run is a MP P4120659, advertised duration of 284 deg. The comp ratio is 10:1. heads are ported stage 6 . What do you have that fits? (rebuilt of course !! lol) I know there are import exceptions for rebuilt/wrecks etc, but it is sometimes hard to tell if the rebuild is indeed a wreck, though you appear to be an honest bloke. . Also having a dollar worth 56 cents US doesnt help either.
Sorry it took a few days to get back, I broke a leg.. must pay my debts on time next time..

[cuda66273]

I'd need more info but if you have a 4000+ stall convertor and a 4.10 or bigger gear set and your going to trailer this car to the track I have a 975 Race Demon on my bench right now.

The old owner couldn't get it to run.....after I removed the chunks of rubber from the metering blocks they seem to flow just fine, they had it jetted with 110's all around trying to get fuel into it and the floats cranked up to the top of the bowl......I should have it back together and flowed in a week or so.

email me direct and I'll send you my spec list to determine the correct carb for your application.

Right now I have 6 soon to be re-built Demons on my bench..after I'm done with them they will perform as good or better than a new one.

[dodge440]

The car is a streeter, 3000 stall, 3.89 gears, but I will email you direct and see what you can do.

BUT... why is my Holley flooding???

[gsmopar]

Dodge440,

I think we kind of missed your point... Why is your Holley Flooding???? (My fault, Sorry...)

Aside from the dumping fuel all over the place... how did the car run? BTW, any idea on what those ported stage VI's flow?

Later,

Greg

[dodge440]

Greg, the car runs great, this carb is a big improvement over the 830 that was on it, thats why I decided to persevere with it. The flooding is intermittant, only in hot weather, ie, I can get it to flood, stop the motor, pull the shaker, aircleaner etc off it, and no more flooding. put it back together, no more again, same heat as before.. but an hour later, it wont run.
Since rebuilding the motor in the late 90's, I have had problems blowing diffs, then uni joints, then the torque convertor, so I haven't raced the car so as to get a 1/4 mile time on it. The only benchmark I have had is with a run with an 11.00 sec 360, and I was some 4 car lengths ahead when we slowed at around 95 mph, so I would like to think it would run around a flat 11 sec.
The only time it has been on a dyno was at a car show shoot out, mainly set up for the turbo jap cars that are rampant around here, and 225 kw, or around 340 hp it was starting to ride up off the rollers, mainly because of the way they had the straps set up, so I never got a reading. That was at 4,000 rpm.
I had the heads midly ported, and the guys that did the job said they should allow 580 horsepower. I kept things reasonably mild to give me torque from the motor, I only pull 6,000 rpm.
The only thing I havent really considered is the fuel I run, 98 octane unleaded. Should that affect it?
Daryl

[gsmopar]

I don't think I would abandon ship just yet on the 4500. If that front float is the only issue and you're killing 11 second 360's on the street I'd say that your combo works

I can't wait to get mine going! I'm running a little more cam (P4120663) and compression with EB heads on a 440. We're both using the M1 intake and purple shaft cams. I'll be totally happy if it runs 11 flat (no nitrous).

Later,

Greg

[charger_dan]

Originally posted by dodge440
The flooding is intermittant, only in hot weather, ie, I can get it to flood, stop the motor, pull the shaker, aircleaner etc off it, and no more flooding. put it back together, no more again, same heat as before.. but an hour later, it wont run.

Daryl-
Have you tried running the car on a hot day without the shaker assembly installed?

What kind of fuel pump are you running? Electric? Mechanical?
Mounting location of pump?
Fuel line size?
Running any fuel line insulation?
Lines running close to headers?
Running a regulator?

Also:
Have you tested your primary float to make sure it's not taking on fuel?
Using teflon tape on any fuel fittings?
How "hot" is your hot weather that you're talking about?
What kind of operating temps is your motor seeing?

We'll help you figure this out...

[dodge440]

I used to carry a 4"x6" aircleaner with me, cause I thought that with the restricted height of the aircleaner that I can fit in the shaker might be too close to the vent tubes on the carb, but on one cruise I had it flood with that aircleaner on, so took it off and juat had the carb hanging out the hole in the hood, but it flooded then as well, thats how I knew I had a build up of fuel on the primary butterflies.
The motor runs at a normal temp, I have a mechanical fan plus 2 electrics on it, but the underhood temp is extreme. The weather some days get around 100 deg F here, so road temp must be horrendus.
I run a Mallory electric mounted at the tank, half inch line, no mechanicl pump, then to a regulator on the firewall, then braided lines to the carb.

I was about to try the front bowl off my 830, float and all, to see if this cured the prob, but with a broken leg, I aint seen the garage for over a week..