|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
More on rods
There's been a lot of discussion on these boards about cheap Chinese parts (Eagle mostly) vs. good quality American made parts. I have been one of the strongest advocates of buying American, because I don't like paying for nuclear weapons which will be used to kill me and my children. For those who haven't followed the prior threads, just do a search on "Chinese" if you want to get up to speed.
Okay, now that I'm getting ready to do a build up on a 340, I started looking for components tough enough for anything I can dish out. Since Carrillo is right down the street, I asked them about small block mopar rods. Here's what they said: "Thank you for your interest in Carrillo rods. We do not stock Chrysler 340 rods but can manufacture them. Current manufacturing time is about 7-8 weeks. Your cost as an individual direct is $275.00 per rod fitted with SPS-WMC7 bolts." Okay, so that's only $2,200 for a set of 8. Guess I'll be reconditioning the stockers this time around. Maybe when I build the R3 block, billet crank, 1200 HP, 30 lb. boost twin turbo I'll give Carrillo another call. But still, no way am I sending my money to China! |
#2
|
||||
|
||||
You can beam your stockers (deburr the forging seam) and polish them and then have them shot peened to relieve stress risers. That works fine for most street driven engines. Just don't do it like I have heard Eagle does (deburr them on a belt sander), that sucks! I don't know if you are familiar with the process, but you can use a die grinder and a ferrous carbide burr to remove most of the flash and then finish off with some sandpaper rolls working down to the finest grit possible and then of course the shot peening. You want a nice roll on the beam, not a flat surface-- this eliminates sharp edges which are also stress risers. I have heard that this process can add up to 10% more strength (well, not really strength, just less failure prone). I sure am glad I can get rods for my big blocks, $2200 is a little steep!
|
#3
|
|||
|
|||
....but the Childs&Alberts are only 1280$! Having used both them and Eagles for many years, I have yet to figure out what makes the C&A's so much better that they are worth double the price.
|
#4
|
|||
|
|||
The price Carillo gave you was the "off the street" retail price. I have a couple of suggestions; try to find it in your heart to use a GM rod and pin size-it has become almost Generic in race engines, and, the stock Mopar rod length is not a standard length.
Most Carillo rods are shipped east of the Mississippi River to CV Products in Charlotte(Carillo is almost standard in Nascar engines regardless of brand). I think CV is their only dealer. Inventory is excellent(they had about 60 sets on the shelf when I ordered mine this summer-of the specific # ordered). And, pricing is much better-about 40% less. I think I paid about $1800 for a full set w/ 7/16"Carr rod bolts-SPS bolts are about $300 less. This was for 2.100" big ends, .927" pins, 6.200" length-weight about 690-700 grams. I have never, ever known of a Carillo rod to break. There is another brand in the same range-Lentz rods-made in NC-also used extensively in Nascar. They will take about any HP(up to 900) you want to dish out. If you are looking at 1200HP, you would want a Extra heavy Carillo/Lentz rod. There are other good brands available, I've used Oliver billets with good success(good to about 700HP), I've used Crower(also good to about 700 HP). I've never used C&A rods-but heard they are good. All three are in the $1200 range. Then there is Dyer rods as well. For your application(1200HP), I would not even think about Eagle rods. |
#5
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
|
#6
|
|||
|
|||
I just meant, that both have done their job properly, no problems what so ever. I think the quality control is pretty much a myth, many of the US made parts I have had seems like there is not much to brag about that control. The C&A rods are good though, but so have been the two sets of Eagles we have used. Still, a 600$ price difference and yet they work the same. For me, paying 600$ more for part being made in the US is nonsence. If it was made in Finland, then I might pay a little extra, but I still doubpt that would be double price of a part working just the same.
BTW, I have seen several broken Carrillo rods. A friend of mine just broke one of his a couple of months ago. But they are old offshore chevy engines. |
#7
|
||||
|
||||
What kind of rods??
I use eagle rods in my SS engine and they are good for that aplication.
But I would like to try a different brand in my new engine, how about Manley? Are they made in USA. And I can use crower to, so my question is: Are Crower and Manley made in USA? |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
At least the I-beam Manleys are supposedly US made, I believe their H-beams are from the same foundry as CAT's or Eagle's, but finishmachined at Manleys. The I-beams tend to be somewhat lighter than H-beams and are propably good for SS engines.
|
#9
|
|||
|
|||
I have refrained from talking about this subject; but, I guess I can't any longer. This is supposed to be a performance forum- Not a political one-but here goes.
There are many, many reasons why Eagle rods are $600 and Carillo(and others) are $1200 or more: International Patent Laws U.S. Business Tax Structure U.S. Investment Tax Structure U.S. Environmental Protection Agency U.S. Legal System-Tort Laws(Civil Law Suits) Labor Cost-U.S. versus other parts of the world Fringe Benefit Cost-U.S. versus other parts of the world Transportation Costs-into the U.S. U.S. Tariff Structure Politics-Plain and Simple!!!! The above reasons are in no particular order-and the reason varies according to the industry being considered. Notice I placed U.S. Labor and Fringe Benefit cost down on the list. While the U.S. labor cost is high, it is generally NOT the primary reason for manufacturing moving out of this country. Patents-Many countries are very expert at taking a well designed product and duplicating it, either just after the patent law elapses or in some cases before and importing it to this country. I have very personal, first hand knowledge-How can a small businessman fight a multi-billion foreign corporation in court? He Can't!! U.S. Tax Structure- A business can invest in a foreign country with Untaxed $ and the profit from that investment is never taxed by the U.S. government! Far different from domestic investment! EPA- Entire industries have been driven out of this country-the textile industry comes to mind. U.S. Legal System- Law Suits have driven several industries out-the athletic equipment industry comes to mind. Do you know that over half the $230 cost of a Riddell Football helmet goes to defray legal costs? U.S. Labor and Fringe Benefit Cost- In many cases over ten times the equivalent cost off shore. 30 % more than the equivalent cost in Canada. Five times the cost in Mexico. U.S. Tariff Structure-We don't tax their goods coming in much at all, they tax our goods heavily-if it endangers one of their industries-or stops our goods from entering with useless regulation. Politics- We are "Uncle Sugar"-So to keep peace in the world(or some parts anyway) we have written off some industries to allow other parts of the world to improve economically. The U.S. is not alone in this-Europe has done it as well- How will it end? Our grandchildren will find out! I will be quiet now--------- |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
I just bought some Manley rods off of their website. www.manleyperformance.com if anyone is interested. $545 for the H beam Hemi rods which I bought. The I beam stuff is closer to $700.
I used to try to only buy parts made by elves with golden hammers but it is getting harder and harder to do that. The damn elves union has just about ruined it for us. I am now going to only buy parts made by tall, limber women who have had a proper English upbringing. I just can't bring myself to support any other lifestyle. |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Do these tall limber women make Mopar rods? Damn the cost! I want a set!
Here's an idea for you, Andy. Fire up that CNC machine of yours and start making rods. Yours would be as good or better than anyone elses, and we would not only keep our money in the U.S., but in MoparChat as well! |
#12
|
||||
|
||||
Machinist are you, Andy? Cool, wish I could do it. Challenger, that's a great idea, but where would you get the blank forgings? Billet rods are good, but they are harder to make than just finishing one from a blank, and they are not as strong. Any thoughts??? Maybe buy some blanks from a good manufacturer?
|
#13
|
|||
|
|||
How will it end? I guess, our poor starwing grandchildren will make rods for billion wealthy Chinese in a filthy low buck&tech foundry
Actually, one metallurgist I know does some business in China manufacturing "cliffdrills" there (at 1/3 cost), and says they do have good equipment and good quality and can do good work if they are paid for that. |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
Yes it those darn union elves that have driven the cost of things sky high? Or is it those darn Business owning trowls that think because they own a business that they are better than everyone else and can treat the elves like crap? Which in case is what caused the elves to form a union.
|
#15
|
||||
|
||||
Better call Manley back and ask them where those rods were made......
You guy's do know that any reasonable machinist can cut your SB crank to take an off the shelf Chevy rod......that's why nobody makes a specific SB Mopar rod, the Chevy one's are easily installed. There is lots of room to widen the throws and lots of meat to turn the crank to the 2.100 journal size and while there doing it they can cut some nice fillets on the journals and you can buy good bearings like King and slip 'em right in. Example....318 stroker motor 360 crank 6" Chevy rod stock pin hiegth on the piston zero deck 12.5:1 +.030 TRW piston 915 J head ......hang on!! |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
440 source rods or Ebay rods? | ShineRunner | Performance Talk | 5 | 06-16-2011 08:24 PM |
Smallblock Rods ie. Eagle rods | GoHot229 | Performance Talk | 5 | 05-28-2009 04:39 AM |
440 six-pack rods for sale/ BME rods for sale | challenger340 | Rear Wheel Drive - Parts for Sale | 0 | 10-24-2007 12:06 PM |
451 - 400 or 440 rods? | rb77413 | Performance Talk | 15 | 02-22-2002 12:04 AM |
383 and 440 rods... | saggly | Performance Talk | 1 | 08-15-2001 12:45 AM |