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  #1  
Old 12-23-2002, 04:20 PM
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pcb1 pcb1 is offline
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Cool 104 Octane Booster

I have a 440; 11:1 engine with old style cast iron heads, Crane cam (intake@valve 504, exhaust@valve528 , duration302/312), timing is 15degrees @ TDC.

Before I disconnected the vac advance, I would get Extreme tappet noise at 70mph, 4000rpm. The racing gas @ 4.50ga is Killing me. MPG is 10-12, but with the vac advance plugged, no tappet noise!
Will 2 bottles of 104+ with 13-16ga of 91 octane give me the same result as 100octane?
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  #2  
Old 12-23-2002, 04:40 PM
Mopar_Maniac Mopar_Maniac is offline
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Default Re: 104 Octane Booster

Quote:
Originally posted by pcb1
Before I disconnected the vac advance, I would get Extreme tappet noise at 70mph, 4000rpm. The racing gas @ 4.50ga is Killing me. MPG is 10-12, but with the vac advance plugged, no tappet noise!
Will 2 bottles of 104+ with 13-16ga of 91 octane give me the same result as 100octane?

pcb1...

I don't think what you are hearing is "tappet noise." If it is, your octane rating has nothing to do with it. What you are experiancing is detonation (ping) from having too high of a compression ratio for the octane rating of your fuel.

You have four choices...either try octane booster to ward off detonation, back off timing until detonation goes away, talk to Don (cuda66273) about having your distributor setup properly, or lower your compression ratio via Mopar Performance .060" head shims. They will lower your compression about 1 full point.

They are part number P4529099 and come as a package of two.

Good luck,
Mopar_Maniac
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  #3  
Old 12-24-2002, 08:32 AM
66Dodge 66Dodge is offline
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2 bottles of 104+ Booster plus 16 gal. of 91 pump gas will only get you about 91.4 to 91.7. And 2 bottles of 104+ Booster will cost you about $16.00 . A lot of money spent for little gain. Remember, 104+ Booster only raises octane level 0.4 to 0.7 depending on which bottle you buy.
($8.00 for 0.4 increase, $12.00 for 0.7 increase.)

A better way would be to buy a five gal. can of 110 race gas from your local performance shop. (under $5.00/gal.)

Why ?
Let's say a full tank is 16 gallons. If you filled up with 14 gal. of 91 pump THEN added 2 gal. of 110 race gas, your effective octane level is now 93.3 ! Remember, you would have paid at least $2.00 per gal. of 91 pump anyway, so $4.90 - $2.00 = $2.90 x 2 gal. = $5.80 NET EXTRA out of your wallet.

So for an extra $5.80 spent on filling up an entire tank you increased your octane level by 2.3 ! Vs. $16.00 for 0.4 !

How did I arrive at the 93.3 ?

(91 x 14) + (110 x 2)
---------------------------- = 93.3
16


$4.90 /gal. of race gas may sound expensive, but I see it as only $2.90 more /gal. out of my wallet because I would have purchased that 2 gal. of 91 pump anyway when filling up my tank.

In your specific case, you're running at 11:1 compression so I don't know how much race gas you would be adding to stop the pinging.
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  #4  
Old 12-24-2002, 12:09 PM
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5th_Ave_Sleeper 5th_Ave_Sleeper is offline
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Red face dont buy that crap!

Make it yourself a lot cheaper too!!
I have an 11:1 360 and this is what i run in it.

24oz mineral spirits (cleaning agent)
4oz trans fluid (lubricant)
100oz tolulene (octane booster)
mix in gallon gas can. shake it up good dump it in your tank. you will notice a cosiderable difference in your detonation problem.

you can make this stuff for well under $10/gal. the tolulene is the pricey stuff $7-$8/gal. the rest is pennies.
here is a link to an old post of mine octane booster formulas
Good luck with the ping thing
5th
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  #5  
Old 12-24-2002, 01:36 PM
66Dodge 66Dodge is offline
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100 oz. of Toluene is 0.78125 gallons. So at $8.00/gal., that's about $6.25 worth of Toluene to make a 1 gal. batch of octane booster.

The Toluene plus the 24oz. of mineral spirits and 4oz. of tranny fluid make up a 1 gal. batch. So if it will replace 2 gal. of 91 pump gas at $2.00 /gal., the NET EXTRA out of your wallet will be say,

$6.25 (x2) - $4.00 = $8.50

That's $2.70 MORE than my example of using 2 gal. of 110 race gas.
And how much octane increase over 91 pump will the 100oz. of Toluene contribute ? And you still have to buy the mineral spirits and tranny fluid. Yes, those two items are cheap but it's still an added expense that increases the cost of the base $8.00/gal. example above.

If you use straight 110 race gas you don't need the other additives plus you can get it in Leaded for the same price.

In my neck of the woods, a 5gal. can of Toluene will come down to costing me a little over $7.00 a gal. and a 5gal. can of leaded 110 race gas will come down to costing me a liitle under $5.00 a gal. Now some will say a 55gal. drum of Toluene will come down to about $2.50 a gal. I don't have the room nor the means to lug home a 55 gal. drum. LOL
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  #6  
Old 12-24-2002, 04:34 PM
66Dodge 66Dodge is offline
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I reviewed the old posts about making your own octane booster with straight Toluene. A 10% mixture of the Toluene added to 92 pump gas will give an effective octane level of 94.2 .

Let's say you have a 16gal. tank. That would mean you would have to make up a batch of booster using 1.6 gal. of Toluene.

If you were to add 1.6 gal. of 110 race gas to 14.4 gal. of 92 pump the effective octane level would be 93.8 .

So comparing gal. to gal. it appears the Toluene will be only 0.4 higher. But, dollar to dollar it will also cost you $4.80 more !
That should buy you at least one extra gal. of 110 race gas.

Toluene $8.00/gal x 1.6gal = $12.80
Race gas $5.00/gal x 1.6gal = $ 8.00

Plus you still may want to add mineral spirits as a detergent agent and tranny fluid as a lubricating agent because straight Toluene is extremely "dry". Tranny fluid is a low grade oil and that creates the possibility of increasing detonation.

Remember, those that recommend making your own octane booster are thinking of buying everything in bulk and after mixing they are pouring that stuff into convenient size bottles like the 104+ at the stores. They forget that dumping in a couple of bottles of home brewed octane booster does not equal the 1.6 gallons needed to boost the octane level to at least 94.
What doesn't help either is that if you live in Petaluma, CA the best pump gas is only 91 octane.
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  #7  
Old 12-24-2002, 05:12 PM
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GON_RACIN GON_RACIN is offline
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.509 cam install
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  #8  
Old 12-24-2002, 06:04 PM
66Dodge 66Dodge is offline
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GON_RACIN,

I thought of that too. But I had to take into consideration how many gallons of gas I was going to burn traveling out to the airport and back. Plus, I believe I read in a previous post that AV gas was designed to combust faster and easier because of the high altitudes involved. ie, lower air density at high altitudes.
So the combustion characteristics of AV gas in a car engine may not be optimum. Just food for thought.
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  #9  
Old 12-25-2002, 12:27 PM
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.509 cam install
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  #10  
Old 12-27-2002, 01:36 PM
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a gallon is 128 oz , not 64
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  #11  
Old 12-27-2002, 05:06 PM
66Dodge 66Dodge is offline
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Ooops!! You're right Ted. My bad.

Okay, I re-edited my posts to reflect 100oz. of Toluene.
But, my comparisons between cost per gallon and effective octane level after mixing in equivalent amounts to pump gas still hold true.
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  #12  
Old 12-28-2002, 09:45 AM
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I do not know where you can get 110 for $5.00/gallon, certainly not around here. here are the best prices I found. bear in mind, I am speaking about where I live-NOT NECESSARILY TRUE FOR WHERE YOU LIVE

101 $7.40/gallon

108 $7.79/gallon

114 $9.19/gallon

117 $9.59/gallon

120 $9.99/gallon

The only way you can get this stuff is by the 5 gallon can from a speed shop. There is one place that has 100 right from the pump, and that's $3.00/gallon. Then again, I probably live in the most car unfriendly place in the world where everything seems to cost double, and the local airfiled here-they would call the cops on you if you tried to take a 5 gallon jug in there! If anyone reads this and lives on Long Island and knows where to get this stuff cheaper, feel free to let me know
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  #13  
Old 12-28-2002, 10:36 AM
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Wow $8.00 a gallon for 110 octane!...will UPS take it in 5 gallon jugs??? We sell 110 Octane 76 race fuel at about $5.75 a gal.

Most if not all of your problem can be cured with a distributor recurve reducing the total advance and moving it up to beyond the 4000 RPM range, this may hurt performance a bit but your hurting your engine more.

I had a 86 Ford, 460, 1 ton, dually, crewcab, 10.5' camper and hooked to the race car trailer...knocked like a door to door bible salesman at 2800 under a load...added 1 gal deisel fuel to 30 gallons of 89 octane and it didn't knock untill about 3000 which was about all that slug would pull to anyhow.

Don't try this at home...it's not a cure...I cured it by buying a Motorhome with an engine designed to run on low octane and pull a big load.
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  #14  
Old 12-28-2002, 10:46 AM
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I know, I used to get 114 for $7/gallon, but the price seems to have gone up in the last year or so. If it comes through NY harbor or across any of the bridges out to the island, everyone has to get their slice of the pie!! If I had a car that required race fuel exclusively, I would be getting a 50 gallon drum and making room for it in the garage. I could probably find the 5 gallon jugs a bit cheaper if I really looked hard, but will never come near that 5 bucks a gallon

look on the bright side, my options for cannolis and pizza are unlimited!!
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  #15  
Old 12-28-2002, 01:49 PM
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Ummm New York style Cannolis!

I'll trade you a dozen Cannolis for 5 gals of 110
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  #16  
Old 12-28-2002, 02:06 PM
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Where I live I buy 110 leaded race gas in 5 gal. cans from the local speed shop. The price for the 5 gal. can comes out to $4.99/gal.

The downside to this is that the best pump gas out here is only 91 octane.
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  #17  
Old 12-28-2002, 02:09 PM
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...and a pair of Cannolis here worth eating are about $5 a pair...
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  #18  
Old 12-28-2002, 02:22 PM
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hmmmm, lets see,

5 cannolis raises the octane of 93 unleaded by the square root of a tank of gas..........ah, screw it!!
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