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  #1  
Old 06-20-2000, 05:47 AM
akidd311 akidd311 is offline
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Has anyone just put one of those K&N filters on the stock air hose? I mean like one of the cylinder universal kind, not the ones that are made to fit in the stock airbox. I measured the diameter of the inside of the hose and it is 3.5 inches and they sell some filters that are 3.5 inches wide. I know it wouldn't be like a true air intake since its the stock air pipes but wouldn't it be better?
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  #2  
Old 06-20-2000, 01:53 PM
Marlin Marlin is offline
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I was toying with an idea, figure the air intake is at the passenger side rear of the engine with the hose coming out to the front of the car... If I can locate a fiberglass hood for the car then I'll actually try this (I don't feel like cutting up my stock hood unless I know it'll work), but figure cutting out a small hole in the hood above this intake, and rigging up a small scoop/intake on the hood, with a home-made hose/k&n combo running between the hood and the engine intake. Only problem I see is making sure the hood inlet mounts up with the air intake hose neatly when you shut the hood.

Like I said, when I find a fiberglass hood (Or a dead Intrepid in the junkyard) I'll try it. Heh.

Sam
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  #3  
Old 06-20-2000, 04:44 PM
brun064 brun064 is offline
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I wouldn't just put the cone or cylinder filter attatched to the intake pipe without rigginf up something to isolate it from the engine heat. Maybe a peice of fiber glass or thick sheet metal. Or you could run a pipe down infront of the PCM and put your filter there....that would give lots of cold air for your engine.
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  #4  
Old 06-22-2000, 04:36 PM
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Fluid Fluid is offline
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I wouldn't worry about putting a cone filter on the end of the present intake - I did something similar to this and it works great. On my 00 3.2 I removed the second resonator and the filter box, replacing them with an ABS elbow and short length of tubing with a conical filter on the end. The result was a small but noticeable increase in throttle response, especially above 3000 rpm.

Dyno tests in numerous import cars have shown that there is little if any difference in power between "cold air" intakes and others with similar filters sucking underhood air. What the dyno doesn't consider is the ramming effect of the vehicle's motion supplying cooler air to the "cold air" units, but that works two ways. The vehicle's motion also supplys cooler air under the hood to the non-cold units. When I measured the underhood temp of my Dakota when driving, it was only 15 degrees warmer by the filter than ambient. That's only a theoretical power loss of 1HP. Regardless, the power increase with either flter is usually 5 to 10 HP, with most closer to the lower value.
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Old 06-23-2000, 06:14 AM
brun064 brun064 is offline
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Of course the filter will give an increase in power but it is best to get it as far away from the engine block and closer to to higher air flow as resonably possible. Also I'v seen several unprotected K&N filters get destroyed because they are just thrown on the hose without any type of protection. The engine heat may also dry out the filter.
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Old 06-23-2000, 08:50 AM
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Fluid Fluid is offline
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K&N make lots of filters designed to be mounted on the top of a carburetor/TB or even next to the engine, so obviously engine heat damage is not a concern to them with their million-mile warranty. Yep, it makes sense to keep the filter in cooler air, but often that isn't practical especially considering that in some instances the power gain is very small.

Just because it makes sense doesn't mean that it will make more power. Lots of people believe that engines always produce more power when running without a muffler, but many many dyno tests have shown that street engines almost always produce more power in a broader rpm band running low restriction mufflers rather than open exhausts. Common sense is worthless if the facts prove it wrong.
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  #7  
Old 06-25-2000, 03:03 AM
brun064 brun064 is offline
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I'm just trying to give a little advice. Of course the power increase on colder air is not as much but it is still recommended. Anyway any K&N aircharger kit comes with a heat guard. Just to bad they dont make any for the LHs.
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  #8  
Old 06-25-2000, 06:08 AM
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Fluid Fluid is offline
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And it is generally good advice. You are an enthusiastic LH driver who like the rest of us wants more performance from his car. I've just made some of the mistakes you recommend, and it would be irresponsible of me not to point them out to others. This is how we all can learn and benefit from these discussion groups. None of us knows it all, some uf us just have more experience in the school of hard knocks.

[This message has been edited by Fluid (edited June 30, 2000).]
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Old 06-30-2000, 03:46 AM
stanz510 stanz510 is offline
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greetings gentlemen, i have been reading all of your 3.5l engine mod tips with great interest. I have just gotten my hands on a 95 Intrepid ES 3.5, and just like everyone else gutted the restrictor in the intake snorkel first and foremost. I couldn't help but wonder though, it looked like this restrictor acted almost like a 'velocity stack' from long ago. just an observation though. another question, has any one looked inside the intake manifold (old 3.5) it may pay if you were to remove and bead/sand blast it, we all know smooth is better, no matter who builds it no one polishes an intake from the factory. as far as the big exhaust question goes, the only other real way of knowing how much back pressure the resonator supplies would be to drill and tap an exhaust pressure test gauge in the pre and post resonator pipes, compare your readings. I am an auto technician and have access to these tools and just may try it! personally i think the cats supply most all of the back pressure the engine needs, i see many of you wishing for more low end power, why? i smoke first gear completely and i'm all stock (never mind the 'restrictor'). rememger to keep in mind that the 3.5 has an M.T.V. in the intake manifold,splits it between an upper and lower depending on rpm. I went to college for chrysler tech and was probally one of the first 'normal' people to see these engines, wonderful machine, absolutely wonderful. i will keep working with mine and continue to keep an eye on what everyone else is up to also. especially you brun064 and you fluid, i find your insights and dicussions interesting, though you do seem to bicker a bit, hey were all on the same team
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  #10  
Old 07-01-2000, 03:15 AM
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Fluid Fluid is offline
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Stanz510: Hey, brun064 and I have worked out our "differences" like adults and are helping one another make our LH sedans faster. :P There is a problem comparing between the pre-'98 and post '98 LH engines though - they are two different 3.5s in many respects. There is no "restrictor" in the late model 3.5 intake, the manifolds are different, there are two TBs on the 'old' engine...the list goes on. But the basic ideas - less intake restriction, less exhaust restriction, etc. - apply to both.

One complicating factor for owners wanting more performance is the general BS put out by many of the aftermarket equipment makers. I.e. K&N used to advertise that switching to one of their "drop-in" filters will give up to 5 HP. Dyno tests by owners just don't show this, yet many believe that they should see a big performance improvement. You just can't believe what many manufacurers write in their ad copy. Too many owners are going to the trouble to actually dyno their cars/trucks, and the truth seldom equals the hype.
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  #11  
Old 07-02-2000, 03:49 AM
stanz510 stanz510 is offline
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hello guys, yes i agree that the differences between old and new 3.5s are considerable, all they share are bore and stroke. did have the opportunity to road test a 300m the other day and will admit, definite power gain over old style, amazing what technology can do huh? i was just breaking chops about you and brun064 arguing, believe me i know what its all about. for a long time i was a devout turbo fan, still am and turbo guys all have hard headed ideas about mods, all in good fun though read from you later.
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