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  #1  
Old 01-17-2003, 12:43 PM
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Default Update - Edelbrock SB Mopar Pro-Flo EFI

Ok.....time for another UNOFFICAL Edbrock press release! I am happy to give you this update so shortly after having tested the 440 Pro-Flo! Just finished up the initial dyno tests of the Small Block Mopar Pro-Flo EFI on the RPM engine. The engine configuration is as follows:

Mopar 340 small block
6077 Edelbrock cylinder heads
7176 Edelbrock Performer RPM intake manifold
1412 Edelbrock 800 cfm EPS carb
7177 Edelbrock camshaft
1 3/4" headers


RPM.........Torque.........Power
2500.........300.1..........142.9
3000.........358.6..........204.8
3500.........343.6..........229.0
4000.........377.4..........287.4
4500.........397.4..........340.5
5000.........387.1..........368.5
5500.........375.3..........393.0
6000.........361.1..........412.5
6500.........327.4..........405.2

For the Pro-Flo dyno run, the intake, carb, and distributor were changed out.

RPM.........Torque.........Power
2500.........312.0..........148.7
3000.........345.2..........197.2
3500.........336.0..........223.9
4000.........361.3..........275.2
4500.........394.5..........338.0
5000.........400.1..........380.9
5500.........386.2..........404.4
6000.........373.4..........426.6
6500.........348.2..........430.9


This was one of the best performers over its respected carb version! I think if we stay on top of things this EFI system will be ready for sale in the Spring. The biggest thing to note from the dyno data, is that the Brake Specific Fuel Consumption factor for the carb averaged .55 where it was .45 with the EFI. You are making more power with less fuel.
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Old 01-17-2003, 01:05 PM
Bristol603 Bristol603 is offline
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Outstanding! Thanks for the information.
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Old 01-17-2003, 08:04 PM
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Thanks for the tip there Roger. My mouth is drooling now.
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  #4  
Old 01-17-2003, 09:04 PM
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What still has me floored is that typical horsepower gains from carb to EFI it about 5-10, mainly switching from dual plane to single plane manifold. This system was a 18.4 horspower gain! Double what we usually find!
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Old 01-20-2003, 09:58 AM
Bristol603 Bristol603 is offline
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Roger,

Will the new small block Pro-Flo EFI intake be capable of being modified to fit a Magnum engine, e.g. a Mopar 402 stroker crate engine? Is there metal in the correct places to drill new fixing holes, would the injectors point to the correct spot etc. I have a feeling I know the answer to this already, but thought I would check anyway.

Thanks,

Nigel.
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Old 01-20-2003, 12:12 PM
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The new magnum V8's have vertical intake bolts, just like the difference from a standard to Vortec small block chevy. Although, I think the magnum uses the same port location. I had a magnum manifold on my desk a while back to see if I could make the standard small block and magnum configuration into one manifold, but I remember it would be pretty messy if I did.

I do not know 100% how well a manifold can be modified to fit a magnum, but no, no Edelbrock manifold comes equiped to bolt to a magnum engine. We might in the future, but there are no plans currently.

If I have some time, I'll go back and look to see how everything lines up, unless someone else on this board knows the answer off the top of their head how easy it would be to convert the manifold.
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Old 01-20-2003, 10:46 PM
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Default Big Block EFI

Roger, when can we expect to get our grubby little hands on some pictures or brochures of the EFI for the 440? I'm guessing your 2003 catalog may have some? Thanks for the info bro and keep us informed on all the research.
When do you want me to send you a check? Have a good one.


J-440
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  #8  
Old 01-21-2003, 03:21 PM
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I mentioned that in my last thread on the 440. Should be spring time and will be out before the small block Pro-Flo

Here's a link to when I posted pics

Pics of the 440 Pro-Flo

Yes, the 2003 catalog has a pic, and its the same as the one in the new products area of our website too.
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  #9  
Old 01-21-2003, 04:20 PM
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Nice,by the way its nice to have a person,in place to at least hear what we as Mopar heads want,and to give good tech advice,ect,ect.(such as a eidlebrock engineer)
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  #10  
Old 01-23-2003, 02:31 PM
PlumCrazyChris PlumCrazyChris is offline
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Default How Much for this setup?

RogerH,

How much can we expect to pay for the complete setup needed to make it work?

I've got the exact engine you tested yours on with a Comp Cams XE 268 (.477 int and .480 exh) in it.

What cam did you use in your test motor and was it bored out at all?

Thanks,
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Old 01-23-2003, 04:09 PM
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fastmopars .inc fastmopars .inc is offline
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im interested in why the efi setup makes less torque below 4000 rpm. is there any reason for this? does the fuel mapping need more tuning or is this just a side effect of the fuel injection vs carburetor?. from what i have heard i thought that the increased torque was the main reason to switch to efi, due to superior fuel distribution and atomization. if anyone could clarify this it would be appreciated.
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Old 01-23-2003, 05:53 PM
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Plum.....

The cost of the kit should be about $2300. The kits is very complete and you shouldn't need anything else, except tools to install it. The chevy guys sometimes go out and buy a distributor to put in, instead of converting theirs, but the Mopar kits come with a electronic distributor. The cam that was used is listed above, and is our RPM camshaft, .488 in and .510 ex. Your cam would probably run really similar to this one, depending on the duration. I don't think the engine is bored, if it is, its not more than .010 over.

fastmopars....

The main reason for the torque loss down low is the difference between a dual plane and single plane manifold. Yes, EFI can give better performance across the board, but this is using a single plane carb style manifold, and not a true EFI manifold. A true EFI manifold with a properly sized plenum and equal length runners can be tuned to an engine very well, but these Pro-Flo kits are to add EFI but retain a carb style look. As far as atomization, a carb does a very good job at mixing the fuel with air, and might do a better job of it than fuel injection. EFI gives you precision with fuel metering though, that a carb does not. With a carb you need to depend on air speed to atomize the fuel, so it doesn't do too well at low rpms...and better up higher.

Thanks caveman.....I like helping people out and making parts that people want! I participate on this board out of joy for my job and I like to help people out. Edelbrock does not pay me to do this, nor do they encourage it, but I do it on my own free will and at the risk of my bosses giving me a hard time about being on the internet and not my direct job function. But heck....I LOVE what I do!
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Old 01-25-2003, 12:34 PM
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Shoot Roger, I figured your bosses would be pleased that you are talking to us and getting us motivated. Edelbrock is going to make a lot of money come April from us Mopar heads.
You're a good guy bro, we need more like you. It seems that Mopar's tend to be the last ones to receive all the latest tech. Given that there are only about 100 million 350 Chevy's out there I can see why. Anyway, thanks for keeping us informed and have a good weekend.


J-440
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  #14  
Old 01-27-2003, 12:45 PM
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J-440.....

Thanks for the support! I'm glad to be of service!


Oh....btw.....I heard a rumor that a Plymouth GTX was showing up today as the calibration car for the Pro-Flo's! I don't know when the 440 Pro-Flo engine will be installed, since the engine that's in the car is getting pulled and putting our dyno engine in for the calibration work. I'll post pics of it in the car when it gets there.
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  #15  
Old 01-27-2003, 05:51 PM
caveman caveman is offline
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Well I for one really appreciate it.I remember a few years back when there was a vacumn if you owned anything but a chevy.Things have changed,but its still nice to have someone on the inside,so to speak.By the way Eidlebrock has been a stand up company for years when it comes to Mopars!Thanks again
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  #16  
Old 01-27-2003, 08:53 PM
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Hard_ChargerR/T Hard_ChargerR/T is offline
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Default For the Mathematically Challenged

Hey RogerH, this is really awesome news. I have been waiting for this for a long time, I am intersted in the Big Block version but both my roommates have small blocks right now. Anyway, I was wondering, just as a rough guess, how much that change of brake specific fuel consumption might equate to in miles per gallon. And don't worry I wont really hold you to any numbers you might give, I just need a frame of reference to understand how brake specific fuel consumption relates to mpg. Keep up fighting the good fight. Thanks.

Matt
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  #17  
Old 01-28-2003, 06:40 PM
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Thanks caveman!

Matt....

I really don't have any idea how the MPG will change. I know it will be better, and once the calibration vehicle is up and running with the EFI, I will have a better feel for it. The numbers I am looking at come from the engine dyno, and these are numbers based on wide-open-throttle. For example....

Fuel consumption at full throttle @ 3000 rpm (440 Mopar engine)is

140 lb/hr with a carb
116 lb/hr with the EFI

So, if you were say hill climbing for an hour all full throttle at 3000 rpms, you would use 14.5 gallons of fuel as compared to 17.5 gallons with the carb.

I can only guess that fuel consumption at less than full throttle will be much better, since it is constantly controlled, where there is no feed back control with a carb.
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Old 01-29-2003, 12:30 AM
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Hey Roger! Stuff looks good!!!! Someone mentioned the Magnum motors. I'd like to throw my experience in here. Being a late model Mopar freak, owning, and modifying a Dodge Dakota with a small block, I want to point out that Mopar Performance offers a M1 based 4bbl manifold with injector bosses already drilled out for the Magnum motors. So if someone were to purchase the Edelbrock EFI kit for a Magnum motor, it would just be a matter of spending some more money for the Mopar manifold, and all should be good. That is, if the fuel rail and injector loaations are the same. Roger, if you would be so kind as to measure the injector spacing in as many areas as possible (All the way down each side, and from left bank to right) I can go out in the garage and measure my Mopar maifold, and we can get this settled. Secondly, what throttle body are you guys using on the small block kit? If its a 4 barrel TB, does it use progressive linkage? Why not a 2 bbl? Once again, being around hot rod EFI Mopars, I can say that plenty of people are having better results with just a 2 barrel TB (whether it be modified factory or aftermarket CNC) over the 4 barrel TB's. What cfm are your TB's flowing? I'm not opposed to 4 barrel TB's, just curious as to what your plans are for the kit. Also, Mopar sells a EFI manifold, single plane that is set up for a 2 barrel factory throttle body to bolt right on, and not use the adaptor like the 4 barrel manifold they also produce. I kinda like the 4 barrel one better cause it makes using a nitrous plate system a little easier!!!! He he!!!

Brad
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