1990 Lebaron Convertible rear windows not working...

[bb123]

I remember from years ago, the rear windows on these Lebaron Convertibles stop working....but I can't remember exactly why. Is it the regulators that go bad? Can I just put new motors in? Anybody know the definite fix?

[BobC]

LOL,

They all seem to have that problem. I've had both regulators and motor troubles. It is the only real trouble my 88 has had other than that was a new top. There is a how-to page out there. Look in the yahoo club old posts. I saved it somewhere on my drive just in case. If you get desperate, let me know. I need to fix the drivers side one, now.

here is the text....

The regulator is a fairly compact one piece assembly that is a bit of an
afterthought design on the convertibles because the Lebaron coupes do not
have a roll down rear window. I have always recommended getting a cable kit
when cable problems are in evidence, but have heard that Chrysler doesn't
list them anymore for models of earlier vintage. (Probably pre-90). I have
been told by my mopar guy that the 87 to 95 window regulators are all the
same, so why the cables would differ between old and new I don't know. I
see a company on the internet that offers cables for Lebaron, they may be
what you would need but you'll have to call. Company is World Upholstery
and Trim, 1-800-922-9577.

I saw a note from Bill Daws describing a technique wherein the motor is
lightly whacked with a small hammer using a broomstick to reach down until
it touches the body of the motor. Someone will hold the switch in the down
direction while you jar the motor housing. The advantage is that no
disassembly is required. It's worth a try! Obviously not for problems where
cable drive has failed, and probably will not work on regulators that were
flooded out in the past.

READ ALL OF THIS BEFORE DECIDING WHAT WORK TO DO!

I have owned about five Lebaron convertibles over the years and they all
have had this problem at one time or another. This is an annoyingly big job
just to have working windows, but putting the top up and down with the
windows up is hard on the quarter window seals and it just looks nicer with
the windows all down. Part of the problem is the space available is cramped
and a cable drive is a necessity, another big problem is the motor actually
hangs down below the floor pan into a portion of the rocker panel where it
is vulnerable to water buildup in cars that are parked outside a lot.
Somewhere around 91 there was a recall to drill a hole on each side so that
water could drain from around the motor area and newer cars already have
the drains, I'm not sure how effective the drain holes are, but I've
already pulled out motors that had a line of rust on their exterior where
the water level had been. There are two basic failure modes for the
regulators, the first is what I've seen most, where the motors actually
rust up inside and become very slow or most often seize up. The second
failure mode is when a cable comes undone on one end, then it bunches up on
the drum and either jams or else flaps around loose down inside the body.
If you hear the motor run, but nothing happens, it's probably a cable
problem. If the window can be moved up and down by hand, it's probably a
cable problem. If nothing happens when you move the switch, it's probably a
seized up motor, especially if the opposite window does work. If none of
them work, it may be a switch or fuse problem, but it'll probably be a
double motor problem. Pulling a regulator out is difficult, so rule out the
simple stuff first!

The hardest part of the job is actually getting the regulator out of the
car body where you can work on it. They come out in one piece, and are
fairly easy to handle and work on once out, but getting them out is not for
the weak, or for the occasional mechanic. I'm a professional mechanic and
have done about ten of these over the years on my cars and on others. I can
pull a regulator and reinstall it in about an hour. You should have an
experienced backyard mechanic help you the first time, if you personally
are not a fairly experienced mechanic. This work should be done with the
top down on a nice day or with good lighting indoors with top down to have
the best luck.

So to begin! The thing that stops most people on this job is to remove the
back seat. The cushion has all the seat belt buckles threaded through it,
but first you must unhook it from the floor pan. There are two steel bars
under the cushion that run left to right, they hook under "J" shaped
brackets, if firmly lifting the seat cushion does not remove it, then
crouch in front of the cushion facing rearward, dig your knee into the
cushion on one side and push straight back. Alternately push down and lift
up on the cushion until it lifts away. Do both sides and remove the
cushion. I recommend completely removing the rear seat back on the car the
first time you do this job, It's a big awkward single piece that wraps
around from door jam to door jam, and can be worked around when you know
what you're doing, but it does a wonderful job of blocking your view of the
job. It's hard enough the first time, so pull the seatback out. That said,
you can perform the job by just loosening the interior panel that forms the
armrest and pushing it in toward the center of the car about six inches.
The black plastic film that covers the window lift cylinders up on top on
the older models is held in place by a couple of little clips that just
slideover the top of the adjacent sheet metal, move the film if it's in
your way. To remove the side panel, remove the screw from the chrome slider
on top by the window, remove a screw at floor level that was under the seat
cushion, remove a screw in the door jam area all the way at the top, and
remove the rocker panel trim partly to release the panel. It may need to be
lifted a bit at the top to unhook it, then shove it in a few inches and
block it with something so it stays there.

The regulator! It's a metal frame that bolts to the car body with three
bolts. First, a warning, anything you drop while working here will fall
down past the regulator and end up in the rocker panel. That's not a big
problem coming apart, once the regulator is out, you can see down there a
bit and get in with a magnet or whatever, but going back together, you may
have to come back apart to be able to retrieve the lost article. The first
thing to pull is the wiper that pushes out on the glass at the top. One
bolt and it's out, it's adjustable, so note about where it was set. Next
pull the plastic vapor barrier away from the car body down on the side,
(you can cut and later duct tape if the goo is too hard set on your car).
This will give access to the lower bolt of the three. Before touching the
three bolts (10mm, I believe) spray some bright colored paint over the
heads and surrounding metal. These three bolts have lots of slop around
them and are the mechanism where you adjust the fit of the glass in the car
body to the door and the weatherstrip. If you carefully mark the as found
position with paint, you won't waste a day getting it all to fit right when
you are done. Now pull the electrical plug to the regulator, (It's right at
the floor pan near the door opening, and it's the only red one you'll fi
nd.) and make sure it's free to pull up and out of the opening along with
the regulator assembly. Each of the three window mounts is an angle bracket
that acts like a shelf with a horizontal screw and a vertical screw, remove
the three vertical screws leaving the little angle brackets bolted to the
body. The mount bolts are two right up at the top, and one basically at
floor pan level, you have to reach in through the side for the lower one
and reach down to it with a fairly long socket and extension. Once it's
loose, try and pull it out by hand so it doesn't fall down in, a small
magnetic stick may be able to catch the bolt as it releases. Likewise, tape
the socket to the extension if it's loose. The regulator will now lift out
all neat in one piece, but will have to be wiggled a bit at the top to get
it clear of the numerous brackets that are present. Relax and persevere and
it will come right out. At this time, many people will install a used
regulator they have gotten from a junkyard. That's a good alternative if
one is available and the price is right, I believe all the regulators 87 to
95 are the same, but I'm not sure. I've heard lately that the cable kits at
least are different on pre 91, If you need a cable kit, ensure you can get
one before taking it all apart. Right and left regulators do not
interchange, but many parts can be swapped side to side directly or by
flipping them over, or whatever. The thing with used regulators is that
many of these regulators fail, so a used one may be getting near the end
even if it does work, check it out before putting it in.Motor problem! The
motors are made by Bosch in Germany and are part of the gearcase and cable
drum assembly at the bottom of the regulator. If the cable and drum are ok,
try not to disturb them while checking out the motor. Most of the screws on
the motor assembly are allen head metric. A simple set of small wrenches is
pretty cheap if you don't already have one. Two screws hold the motor body
to the gearbox, the motor has one bronze bushing at its outboard end, and a
plastic bearing inside the gear housing. The bronze bushing is the one that
normally seizes up if water was a problem. The motor shaft is a long worm
that threads into the plastic gear box. There is a spring where it seats
into the housing that acts as a shock absorber for the mechanism. There is
also a small ball in the shaft end (thrust bearing) held by a dab of grease
I believe. To pull the motor, first note just how it all goes together,
making a sketch if needed. Next, undo the two screws holding the body to
the gearcase, and work the shaft out of the gearcase. A small gasket is
present, and probably will tear a bit but can be reused anyway if you're
careful. If the cable drum is pulled from the housing (see below), the spur
gear can spin and the shaft will come straight out. Now it should be clear
whether the motor shaft is bound up or not, with only one bearing, the
rotor will drag on the internal magnet, but it should turn cleanly. If the
rotor can spin, the problem may be a bad rotor or worn brushes, in that
case, a new motor will be needed. I have seen motors where there was a
buildup of rust on the motor commutator that prevented current flow. To
access the motor bronze bearing, or the commutator, the plastic brush
holder needs to be removed from the end of the motor body, the carbon
brushes are delicate, so be careful with them. If the shaft is stuck into
the outboard bushing, fill the motor body up with some penetrating oil, and
try to work the shaft loose in the bearing by gentle turning and pulling.
Occasionally, the shaft will pull the spherical bushing out of the housing,
If it can then be removed from the shaft and cleaned up, the bearing can
later be greased and replaced back into it's clip in the body. Sometimes
the bearing will no longer fit into the motor body if it pulls out and you
will need a new motor. Once the bearing is free and greased, and the
commutator is cleaned with a light polishing cloth, you can go back
together. The tricky part here is to work the two brushes back over the tip
of the shaft and up onto the commutator part of the rotor. A wrap of paper
or thin plastic may help guide it back on, or use small tools and keep at
it until you get it. A note of caution, if the brushes get grease on them,
the motor will not run even if it's perfect otherwise. Reassemble by
pushing the shaft into the gearcase and draw up the two screws to hold it
all together. (Grease the gears). Before installing all the cable hardware,
hook up the motor to the car, and test it will run both directions when the
switch is pushed, (key must be on remember!)

To make motor work easier, the cable drum should be removed from the drive
hub, pull the steel plate from over the drum and lift the drum away. A
couple of plastic wire ty-wraps can be used to keep the cable from
unraveling if it is in good condition and will be reinstalled intact after
motor work is done.

Cable problem! Normally, you get a new kit from Chrysler that includes a
new cable with two ends and springs and a plastic sleeve already installed,
a new plastic cable drum, three small kidney shaped rubber cushions that
fit between the plastic drum and the motor drive hub, (spur gear), spare
mechanism screws and clips, and a pack of special grease that it all gets
coated with when done. There is also a good instruction sheet that tells
how it all goes together. The motors are identical, but the regulators are
different for right or left side, so the cables wrap opposite directions
for each side, the sliders that hold the cable ends can be exchanged side
to side by flipping them over I think! If the motor runs ok in both
directions, the only trick is to install the cable kit. It's not as scary
as it looks, unlike the rest of this job, just use the instruction sheet
and these tips and take your time with it. If there is a cable problem,
it's usually caused by one end of the cable or the other pulling out of the
sliding block that the window bottom is bolted to. The cable ends are both
square flat plates and there are trapped springs on each end that cushion
the mechanism when you go to full up or full down position. They slide into
the plastic pockets on the top and bottom of the metal slider that the
glass bolts to. Frequently, the plastic gets cracked and lets the cable
ends pull out, then it bunches up on the drum and that cable will never
work right again. I have salvaged these broken plastic sliders by drilling
one hole through the metal body, then installing the square cable end and
spring as normal, but where it would normally immediately pull out in
service due to broken away plastic, I run a piece of steel utility wire
through the hole, lasso the cable end and twist the wire to hold the cable
end in place. The cable end will not pull out if it's prevented from
twisting to the side, as the spring seats against metal, but normally only
plastic keeps it from kicking out to the side and pulling away. I use
regular junk wire from a hardware store, about 1/32" diameter I'd guess,
and after it's twisted I trim it tight and make sure it won't rub in the
wrong area. A bit of inspection will reveal where the wire can go and where
it can't. I recall I had to drill away one or two small rivets to pull the
slider free of the regulator frame, but they were easy to pop rivet back
together when done. Test the operation and it's ready to reinstall.

Reassemble! It all goes back together in reverse order. I think it goes
best with the window about half way down, but experiment for the best
position. line up the three bolts holding the regulator and get them all
started, then set the top two in the paint marked position and snug them
up. Next move the whole assembly in or out to line up the bottom paint mark
and tighten the bolts all snug. Replace the wiper and adjust it against the
glass, then reconnect the wire and try the motor again. Check the fit of
the glass again the top and the door glass and if it's ok, Replace all trim
and you're done!

I've never had to redo a repair on any window once fixed, but I avoid
putting windows down the last 5% or holding the switch after they are all
the way up to avoid straining cables, and I park under roof, so the
mechanism doesn't get wet too much.

If you need more or any of this is inaccurate, let me know,
edcampbell@papl.com

[bb123]

Thanks so much for the very informative post!!!! I will give it a try! TY!

[keith3123]

When you get them out just undo the two torx screws holding the motor on,then pull the motor out of the housing slowly.Take the new motor out of its housing & install it in the old one ,make sure to put some grease on it.Sometimes you have to play with them to get them back in,but it is alot easier then messing with the cables.